Best wheel diameter for Series 1 CX
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Thread: Best wheel diameter for Series 1 CX

  1. #1
    Member Houtan's Avatar
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    Default Best wheel diameter for Series 1 CX

    Hi

    My CX is 1977 2400 Pallas sedan and I want to change the tires. according to car`s manual front tires is 185HR14 and rear is 175HR14. I have two options. first buy original size tires from Germany but the transport for sending tires becomes more than price of tires. second finding best tire size in modern size tires.

    I don`t know original tire sidewall factor in old tire marking system but I guess it must be 82 for older CXs. If my guess in true, original wheel diameter becomes 659mm front and 643mm rear.

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    nearest size that I found is 195/75/14 for front and 185/75/14 for rear but with this sizes, tires are wider and whole wheel diameter is about 9.5 mm smaller than original wheel.

    any Idea that this changing size can change ride quality? or any Idea that what tire size I must choose?

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    The tires you mention should work well. You can run the wider tires on all 4 wheels if you like so they can be rotated.

    I've run as wide as 215/65 14" on the front (on 6" wide rims) and they work brilliantly. I'm not sure if htey would fit on the rear though.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Have a look where he lives

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    PS: Wow, the right tire is still available in 80 profile
    UFO likes this.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    195/70 14 will work well. That's what I fitted to my 1978 CX. I did try 205/70 on the front, but 195s steer better. The rolling circumference is smaller than standard so you will cruise at higher revs, from memory 4,000rpm was 110k in a C-matic box


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    I run 195/70-14 perfectly well. Fitting a spare of that size in the carriage on the engine isn't so good, so I have 175/70-14 rears, and the spare is that size, a neat fit under the bonnet. OK for short runs on the front and punctures are rare after all.
    JohnW

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    I have a friend going there next month maybe he can take a set over to him.

    John



    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Have a look where he lives

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    PS: Wow, the right tire is still available in 80 profile

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    When this topic came up before, I posted the following (note that the context was Australia for tyre availability & I am unsure of the continued availability of some that I mention & especially unsure of what's available in Iran.

    "An acquaintance has a CX originally fitted with 185/80-14 fronts & 175/80-14 rears. Currently, he has 195/70-14 fronts & 175/70-14 rears. Wheels are 5.5" wide. Knowing of my enthusiasm for Continental's PremiumContact2, he observed that the only relevant size in that type for him was 175/70-14. This led to me wondering what would be available for the car (excepting the disgusting 185/80-14 XVS). The results of that thought (a near unedited copy of my email to him) are below in case they are of any interest to anyone else. The 'best' in the first sentence was, in conversational context, also best for handling balance. The steering weight remark at one point was me forgetting that the CX has power steering.

    "mmm! quite complex. Some principles first:

    Best would be a 20 mm width difference f/r with profile variation (lower profile at the front) to maintain the same diameter f & r & with the rear size (the smaller width) able to be used for the spare as well. That way, if a front has a flat, then the spare is the same diameter as it (although a different tyre size) & one does not have the differential coping with continuous action to accommodate different wheel rotation speeds. It'd also be nice to have the fronts with the same gearing as the original for speedo-gearing purposes, although I find the mental adjustment on my Djet & Moke to be automatic & trivial. Best, also, for legal & insurance reasons, would be to have no tyre of lower load range than the original size. Finally, it'd be nice to not just have an at least semi-decent lateral load wet tyre but one that's semi-tautly responsive in structure. And if one is not to risk front/rear tautness difference handling oddities (of a sort which might be difficult to tyre pressure fine tune out), then having the same tyre type front & rear is the best bet. If not, then, with the CX, one would want the tauter structure at the front.

    This is a large list of criteria & 14" is a size which has a paucity of tyre sizes & types still available.

    So, your 195/70 & 175/70 combination gives you what I'm judging to be a good front/rear width difference but is rather different in diameter (175 is 4.5% less in circumference) so the 175 being used as a spare on the front is, I think, not going to be a good thing for the differential. Even if your spare is an old 185/80 (you don't specify) as, I assume, the original one was, that would be 3.7% longer than the 195/70. I'm not sure how much variation in straight continuous running a diff is happy with & for how long but if size difference can be minimised, then that'd be optimal.

    There are various sizes available in various disparate tyre types but only one tyre range satisfies each criterion. This is Hankook's K715. My appraisal of it would be that it is a sound second rank tyre but then so, at best, is every other option available except one (the Conti PC2 which is available in 175/70 only). And the K715 is available in the CX-friendliest range of sizes (185/75, 175/70, 205/70 XL, 195/75, 185/80).

    The tyre types I looked at were, apart from the aforementioned, Hankook's Ex (175/70) & K415 (195/65, 195/70,175/65), Kumho's KH17 (195/70, 195/65, 175/70,185/65), Toyo's NanoEnergy3 (175/70, 185/70 & 195/70) & Yokohama's BluEarth AE01 (175/70, 185/65, 185/70, 195/70,195/65). If you simply wished to reproduce the tyre sizes you had now then the KH17 would do that in one type (& it has its advocates - including the secretary of the Citroen Car Club of Tasmania, who has largish ones on a set of bigger alloy wheels on his CX). So, would the AE01 or NE3. Or, a type mix with the best types available & with the structure tautness roughly in balance would be KH 415 fronts & PC2 rears. Were I to be keeping the current sizes then I think that I'd choose that mix. But then, faced with the same choice, I wouldn't choose your current size mix at all.

    Assuming that your original fronts were 185/80, I'd fit 205/70 (only 1.5% shorter circumference). This serves three functions: it gives you more tyre to battle nose plough (without, I'd predict, being much heavier in steering than the current 195/70); it gives you a front size which it is easy to match to a rear size of similar circumference (& that rear size would fit in the nose as a spare); & it satisfies the original load rating (as would a matching circumference rear - something impossible to decently manage with a 195/70 front as 175/80 is no longer available in anything decent). The K715 205/70 is also an XL (extra load) tyre which usually means two sidewall plies not one. Although installed for increased load rating, these plies have the benefit here of being crisper in response than their single plied counterparts of the same tyre type. They also ride less well but that is not going to much matter in a CX.

    So, what rears? Happily for circumference-matching, load rating & 20 mm width difference reasons, according to Hankook's web site anyway, the K715 comes in a 185/80. It also comes in a 185/75 (1.4% shorter in circumference than a 205/70 as offered to the 185/80's 1.5% longer). Each would do apart from a mild load rating query for the 185/75 but it'd be the same as the 175/80 rears which were probably fitted when the car was new.

    So, I'd fit 205/70 fronts & either 185/80 or 185/75 (the latter would be my choice) rears in Hanhook's KH715. The rear size would fit as a spare or, if you didn't want to buy 5 (& rotate the three 185s through the rear to avoid "unused spare" idiocy), then you could just get two 185s & put whatever you like as a spare & if you have a front flat, then put a correct circumference rear on the front & the spare on the rear. More potential fussing come flat time but less outlay & less rotational fussing. It's what I'd do.

    So, in summary, I'd get Hanhook's K715 in 205/70 XL & 185/75 (2 of).

    Two useful web links:

    For tyre size comparisons:
    http://tire-size-conversion.com/tire-size-comparison/

    For magazine tyre test summaries on tyres which you have on a medium list:
    Tyres by Brand - TyreReviews

    The Tyre Reviews link takes you to a page listing tyre brands & models. Navigate to the tyre you want & the relevant link for, say, the K715, & it'll list links connecting you to available magazine tyre tests on that tyre. It also lists owner reviews but these are to be read with caution (I take most notice of those written by those who self categorise their driving style as "spirited").

    Phew! I hope that that is of some use to you."

    cheers! Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Houtan View Post
    Hi

    My CX is 1977 2400 Pallas sedan and I want to change the tires. according to car`s manual front tires is 185HR14 and rear is 175HR14. I have two options. first buy original size tires from Germany but the transport for sending tires becomes more than price of tires. second finding best tire size in modern size tires.

    I don`t know original tire sidewall factor in old tire marking system but I guess it must be 82 for older CXs. If my guess in true, original wheel diameter becomes 659mm front and 643mm rear.

    nearest size that I found is 195/75/14 for front and 185/75/14 for rear but with this sizes, tires are wider and whole wheel diameter is about 9.5 mm smaller than original wheel.

    any Idea that this changing size can change ride quality? or any Idea that what tire size I must choose?
    Were you to run these sizes then I can't imagine that you'd notice any lessening of ride quality.

    With 195/75 instead of 185/80, you'll have a sidewall that is 1.2% shorter & a slight unsprung weight increase. Each will be unnoticeable. you'll also have almost identical tyre circumference (shorter by .6%) & thus gearing.

    With 185/75 replacing 175/80, the story is similar: .9% shorter sidewall & .4% shorter circumference. Negligible.

    I don't know how good the available tyres are but I suggest that switching to 205/70 fronts (as suggested in my other post) would be even better in terms of handling balance and would not upset ride or gearing.

    cheers! Peter

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    Thanks for all comments, Your comments are very helpful.

    Peter, Thanks for your useful points, I must see in the market that which of those tires are available here or maybe if I be lucky the original size with same load and speed codes. True speed and steering feeling are really important for me.

    The original CX tires are available by Michelin and some other companies like Verdestein. etc. here is Michelin Classic range:
    Find your tyre | Michelin Classic
    CX-Basis can send them to me but like I said transport cost is more than tires price itself!!

    Also here is Verdestein, They have really good quality:
    Details - Vredestein

    For choosing alternative size. There is a very useful chart here that can be helpful for every classic cars, I had started from same charts:

    Vintage Tire Size Conversion Chart - Vintage Car Connection - Old tire sizes

    Also this tire convertor is useful:
    Tire Size Calculator ? Free Tire Size Calculation And Comparison Tool.

    Cheers!! Houtan

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    Hmm. It all depends on what you want the tyre to do. Let's assume that responsive handling & wet grip are priorities.

    If you were determined to go down the Michelin Classic path, then I would dodge the awful Xas & choose the 185 MXV all round & achieve handling balance by relatively increasing front tyre pressures. Personally, I would try to avoid each of these.

    I disagree that the Vredestein Sprint Classic tyres have 'really good quality'. They would definitely be well made (so would the Michelins) but this is a very, very sloppily structured tyre with atrocious wet grip. A CX really benefits from a rather taut tyre with good wet grip if it is to avoid understeering off into the scenery. Avoid.

    I can't see why you wouldn't up the sizes & fit a more modern tyre that would be cheaper & perform better (& be available in tubeless type; tubes are a horrible anachronism).

    cheers! Peter

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    Peter, Recommended to Service Manual 818-1 (Feb, 1975) the original tires of Citroen CX "Michelin XVS" was tubeless as standard. So I don`t want any inner tube tires, using tube tires are not acceptable todays.

    This CX is not a car for everyday use, in fact I will use it 2 or 3 days in a year for going to some classic car shows or cafe racers, classic rallies, etc. When you have a 70`s classic car you want to your car looking as original 70`s or you want to feel driving a 70`s car. for this reason the better modern performances is not important for me. in other hand I can buy original tires from Michelin in France or Germany but the transporting and custom price from Europe to Iran is crazy, so I have a concept that if I can find a alternative tire size that looking as original car`s tires and driving feels same as original than I can spend those transport money for another important parts that I need. Because of this I search nearest size as original tires.

    I found 175R14 tires in local, So the rear and spare tire problem seems solves. but for front tire problems if I can`t find 185R14 or 195/75, I don`t want going to sizes wider than 195.

    Cheers!

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    OK; good luck with the quest.

    cheers! Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    Hmm. It all depends on what you want the tyre to do. Let's assume that responsive handling & wet grip are priorities.

    If you were determined to go down the Michelin Classic path, then I would dodge the awful Xas & choose the 185 MXV all round & achieve handling balance by relatively increasing front tyre pressures.
    cheers! Peter
    You obviously have not driven a CX with MXV tyres. In my view probably Michelin's worst tyre, understeer available at all times on command especially in the wet. Unfortunately MXV-P is the only tyre Michelin have in the classic range in 185HR14

    If you want the classic car to look like a classic then the brand of tyre has to be Michelin for a CX. In Australia we can get the XM2 which is a very good tyre based on my experience on CXs and Xantias. Don't know if it is available in Iran. I would fit 195/70 all round so you will be able to rotate the set and wear them out a bit before they get over 6 years old.

    I have seen reports that Michelin is keen to start selling its tyres in Iran when sanctions are finally lifted but don't know if that has happened yet. When it does I would see what they offer in 195/70 14. If it is XM2, buy with confidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    You obviously have not driven a CX with MXV tyres. In my view probably Michelin's worst tyre, understeer available at all times on command especially in the wet. Unfortunately MXV-P is the only tyre Michelin have in the classic range in 185HR14

    If you want the classic car to look like a classic then the brand of tyre has to be Michelin for a CX. In Australia we can get the XM2 which is a very good tyre based on my experience on CXs and Xantias. Don't know if it is available in Iran. I would fit 195/70 all round so you will be able to rotate the set and wear them out a bit before they get over 6 years old.

    I have seen reports that Michelin is keen to start selling its tyres in Iran when sanctions are finally lifted but don't know if that has happened yet. When it does I would see what they offer in 195/70 14. If it is XM2, buy with confidence.
    hmm! I am no great enthusiast for the MXV (which I used, upon their release, on an R12 Virage) but to say that it is worse (as a wet tyre laterally) than XVS, Xas, XZX, ZX or X is bizarre. I would agree that it is worse than XWX.

    Being a regional line & not generally available in Europe, the XM2 is not widely sampled in magazine tests. However there is one test I'm aware of:

    Summer tyre test by russian Za Rulom magazine (185/60R14; 3.2013)212 | Laneks

    (Click on 'next page' to find it down at the bottom among the dross.)

    If one were to be less tribal & more interested in how the tyre performs than Houtan is & committed to 195/70 as a size, then I'd suggest the Hankook Kinergy Ex H308. It's an "eco" tyre like the XM2 but Hankook seem to be doing a better job of managing the "low rolling resistance versus wet grip" compound compromise than Michelin at the moment. And, talking of understeer, the Ex is an unusually taut tyre for this class with high rigidity bead "fillers" & turn up "flippers" that extend up under the belt edge to make the sidewalls double ply. Oh, and they're almost two thirds of the price of an XM2 (source: Jax web pages).

    Not that any of this is of any relevance to Houtan. what might be of relevance is learning about a British retailer: Longstone. Many Aussie Froggers have done business with them & speak highly of the experience.

    Vintage Tyre Offers | Longstone Tyres

    cheers! Peter

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    All of your opinions is that Michelin MXV tires are worse, than I will forget them.

    Some Iranian collectors are buying tires from Longstone company too because Iranian tire dealers have not interests on classic tires. In fact companies like Michelin never coming to Iranian market directly. mostly these companies must have contracts with local companies and those local dealers only have interests on well selling products. Verdestein have a production line here in Iran but with cooperation with an Iranian tire maker names Yazd Tire, they don`t have classic tires too. another company that have these 185R14 size is Camac, good price but not available in Iran too.

    I guess I must thinking on Hankook tires, they are well known in Iran (as cheap price tires not performance tires). Best tires in Iranian market that peoples have interest on them are European brands like Michelin, Pirelli, Verdstein, Continantal, etc.

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    "...All of your opinions is that Michelin MXV tires are worse, than I will forget them. "

    It's not clear to me why you say that. You intend to hardly use the car & don't seem concerned with the tyre's performance so much as with preserving originality of appearance & feel.

    If you are not going to be driving hard or much at all in the wet, then the MXV would seem to suit well & Longstone's might be a good source for them.

    If you'd be happy with the idea of the Vredestein Classic Sprint then its failings as a tyre seem irrelevant to your purposes. The tread pattern certainly looks more in keeping with the eighties - & they have the merit of being locally available.

    cheers! Peter

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