DS fuel tank
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Thread: DS fuel tank

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    Default DS fuel tank

    Does anyone know the fuel tank pickup and sending unit set up?

    I had my tank removed and restored and reinstalled.

    Now the gauge is not showing full when the tank is full and I'm running out of fuel when it's still 1/4 left.

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    Adrian

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  2. #2
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    The float sits under a round plate on the top of the tank under the rear seat and is easy to access. It could be either that the float was damaged while it was out or the wire it sits on was bent. Should be easy to diagnose when you pull it out - Just unscrew the plate and disconnect the wire

    Good Luck

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterMol View Post
    The float sits under a round plate on the top of the tank under the rear seat and is easy to access. It could be either that the float was damaged while it was out or the wire it sits on was bent. Should be easy to diagnose when you pull it out - Just unscrew the plate and disconnect the wire

    Good Luck

    Peter
    Make sure that you check the flexible earth wire on the float. I found on my ID19 that the multi-strand wire that flexes when the float arm moves, had broken with the flexing, and was sparking when it made contact. This is in the unit you remove from the top of the tank. Sparks in a petrol tank are a very dangerous situation.

    Rex B
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    Member wilrex's Avatar
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    If you run out of fuel before it shows empty, it could be that the nylon petrol tube that runs from the tank to the pump is not inserted into the tank pickup as far as it should be. It must be inserted as far as it will go in to the copper pipe . (ID19, yours may be different)

    Rex B
    2CV6 Special Green, Riley RMB, RX7 Rotary, Jensen Healey, 1896 Ford A replica, and last but not least 1961 Citroen ID19-P... Previous include, 27 Chev Truck, 24 Bean Truck, 27 Chev Capitol, Rover S105, Humber Hawk x 2, MGB, Ford AA Truck, Ford A, elderly motorbikes x6, and more...

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    Fellow Frogger! JAJEA's Avatar
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    Notwithstanding your problem [that needs to be fixed], may I suggest that you keep tab of mileage in addition to looking at the gauge. An old habit I have adopted from the early days of running out is to zero the odometer at each fill up. (Also gives you a good indication of time for a tune up and what service stations to keep away from.

    Regards,

    John

    Quote Originally Posted by IE23 View Post
    Does anyone know the fuel tank pickup and sending unit set up?

    I had my tank removed and restored and reinstalled.

    Now the gauge is not showing full when the tank is full and I'm running out of fuel when it's still 1/4 left.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Hi Adrian,
    each one of these I've seen, especially the older types, usually have a lot of wear on the wire wound resistor part. Those windings can actually wear right through eventually where the contact rubs against it. If it's a really old part it's possibly a good idea to source a new one.
    Good luck. George 1/8th.
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  7. #7
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    I ran out of fuel once despite the gauge still reading 1/4 full, then discovered when I filled it up I could only get about two thirds of the normal amount of fuel in. It was 1:30am, we were coming back long distance at speed from France in the Safari and I'd simply forgotten to buy fuel when back in the UK. A dumb mistake to make. Basically what had happened was the electric pump I'd fitted had basically pulled up the floor of the tank and shrunk the volume. I drained it and blew it back out again with an air pump - it made a loud bang but I got most of the volume back.

    The gauge always was a liar after that and it continued to show 1/4 full when empty, but showed full when full. I just had to zero the odometer at every fill up, a bit of a discipline. It's a bit odd if yours is reading high when it's empty an low when it's full - I'd pull out the dash clocks unscrew the gauge and just check mechanically that the little pointer isn't rubbing against the plastic behind it as it moves up and down.

    Cheers

    Marc
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  8. #8
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    My D Special gauges are made by "Vague-Liar".

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    Quote Originally Posted by moulton2speed View Post
    My D Special gauges are made by "Vague-Liar".
    haha, yes they are not the best, depending on how the car is parked they will show a different reading. . .

    I'll add to the above comments, check the float on the sender, the original cork style float will have broken down and now absorb fuel making it less inclined to float. The plastic style can also develop breaks and again partially fill giving the same result.

    Cheers
    Chris
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  10. #10
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    I replaced my float with a champagne cork. Works perfect ten years later. You could also measure the resistance to see if you have the right values at different positions on the float arm. I can't remeber the values now, but I found them in a service manual then. Be very careful to not damage the gasket when removing the pump, or better, replace it.
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  11. #11
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    I knew there was a reason for saving the champagne corks!

    John


    Quote Originally Posted by TimS View Post
    I replaced my float with a champagne cork. Works perfect ten years later. You could also measure the resistance to see if you have the right values at different positions on the float arm. I can't remeber the values now, but I found them in a service manual then. Be very careful to not damage the gasket when removing the pump, or better, replace it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAJEA View Post
    Notwithstanding your problem [that needs to be fixed], may I suggest that you keep tab of mileage in addition to looking at the gauge. An old habit I have adopted from the early days of running out is to zero the odometer at each fill up. (Also gives you a good indication of time for a tune up and what service stations to keep away from.

    Regards,

    John
    I always keep tabs on the km's, although I admit being left high and dry on this occasion because normally I can get more kms from a tank full.


    Adrian

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  13. #13
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    If it's an early D.... The easiest way to guestimate tank level is how much the gauge waves around ..... If the needle has stopped moving .....she's about to coast to a halt .... FILL IMMEDIATELY !! ... One of the ID19's here runs out at a 1/4 of a tank... I always remember as I coast to a halt .... As Rex says above, it's a very simple fix

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  14. #14
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    To clarify, I have two issues.

    1. the sender gauge float is most likely damaged.

    2. the pick up is not at the bottom of the tank where it should be.
    I know where it should be, nicely housed in the pick up filter on the other side of the tank drain nut. Unfortunately some sod had turfed the rings on the filter a long time ago. But I'm using a good quality external filter.
    My question is, before I empty the tank again; is the pick up line inside the tank a solid fixed pipe or a removable flexi pipe?

    The pump is external to the tank and working nicely.


    Adrian

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  15. #15
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    You would not have been left high and dry had you carrying a spare 10 litre can!

    Guaranteed to work. It won't run out because it knows you don't care!

    Yes, I too had been caught once and the reason being head wind! I just did not realise just how strong it was.

    Regards,

    John

    Quote Originally Posted by IE23 View Post
    I always keep tabs on the km's, although I admit being left high and dry on this occasion because normally I can get more kms from a tank full.

  16. #16
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IE23 View Post
    To clarify, I have two issues.

    1. the sender gauge float is most likely damaged.

    2. the pick up is not at the bottom of the tank where it should be.
    I know where it should be, nicely housed in the pick up filter on the other side of the tank drain nut. Unfortunately some sod had turfed the rings on the filter a long time ago. But I'm using a good quality external filter.
    My question is, before I empty the tank again; is the pick up line inside the tank a solid fixed pipe or a removable flexi pipe?

    The pump is external to the tank and working nicely.
    Adrian,
    I think the answer to question #2 is that there is a fixed metal tube which carries the rislan tube, the rislan tube enters the tank externally and exits at the filter (missing on your car).
    Have a look here for an opened tank which should give you an idea of the internal set-up. when set up correctly you are drawing fuel from the bottom of the tank. Without the internal filter you may be missing out on the first 50 - 80mm of fuel if the rislan tube doesn't reach the bottom - you'll also be drawing any crud that settles on the bottom.
    Tankrenovierung

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  17. #17
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    The shape of the tank means it will drop away from full quickly. You won't know whether the float is bad until you remove it. It's a bit tight to R&R the sender, so the wire may have been bent or the float is fouling. You could salvage a float from a modern tank unit. Later PSA units have a foamed hard plastic float and that should last a long time. Also check the earth wire from the sender to the tank housing wall is present.

    There is a steel guide tube fixed into the tank and leading to the baffled area for the pickup and filter at the bottom of the tank. The nylon tube pushed into that steel tube and that is what would reach the bottom of the tank and not the steel tube, which stops well short of that. Depending on how the tank was 'restored', sealant could be preventing the tube from being inserted completely.

    Edit: Belated Snap!

    p.s. I should add that the EFI tank is different to a carby tank in that there is an extra connection for the fuel return. This is a fixed pipe that empties in the baffled area that contains the filter and pickup. It doesn't just empty into the top of the tank and I presume it's meant to reduce foaming and vapour formation. It's not impossible to drill a few holes to add one to a good carby fuel tank for use in an EFI car. Really early tanks are a little different and the filter differs at least, but still fit later cars.
    Last edited by David S; 22nd March 2016 at 04:07 PM.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    thanks ALL,
    Now I understand and have a clear picture of what I'm dealing with.

    Oh and maybe the answer is to pop more champagne bottles and keep 10 litres of it handy, then I'll be in no condition to drive and wont care about the car.
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    Adrian

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  19. #19
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    Default DS tank

    You could compromise

    Carry 10 L can in boot

    When feeling down you can sniff the petrol and cheer up

    Andrew


    Quote Originally Posted by IE23 View Post
    thanks ALL,
    Now I understand and have a clear picture of what I'm dealing with.

    Oh and maybe the answer is to pop more champagne bottles and keep 10 litres of it handy, then I'll be in no condition to drive and wont care about the car.

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    Barry in Majorca had tank issues did he not? Replace everything that gives you the annoyance : ) Best whip the cover off tank after removing seat and inspecting. If you start fiddling around with the plastic Rilsan hosing be careful as it could be brittle. You should only need to take the filter off the bottom of tank after draining to see if the plastic tube is sitting far enough to be catching the fuel. It should have a a diagonal cut on the end to allow it not to block in the base of the plug. If it isn't far enough down you'll need to manipulate it into place and this might best be achieved with someone on the top side of the tank outlet wriggling it whilst someone underneath gets a hold and pulls it gently through (also there is a drain plug- smaller on other side for draining. Check to see if the filter is clean, clean it if not. You'll need a new or made up seal for the sender to if you need to replace that.
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 22nd March 2016 at 11:28 PM.

  21. #21
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    Hello, question. If the metal tube goes to nearly the bottom of the tank and the rilsan tube fits inside the metal tube, what stops the petrol from leaking out? Why doesn't it travel up between the rilsan and the metal tubes?

    Peter

  22. #22
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badabec View Post
    Hello, question. If the metal tube goes to nearly the bottom of the tank and the rilsan tube fits inside the metal tube, what stops the petrol from leaking out? Why doesn't it travel up between the rilsan and the metal tubes?

    Peter
    Peter,
    On the outside of the tank there is a rubber tube that fits over the metal tube and the rislan tube, clamped so the tank is sealed.

    Cheers
    Chris
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    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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