Wheel coming loose on ID19 with centre lock bolt.
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Member wilrex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Buninyong
    Posts
    79

    Default Wheel coming loose on ID19 with centre lock bolt.

    Has anyone had the problem of a wheel coming loose on the single stud type wheels?
    This one was checked about 500km ago when the wheel caps were fitted, seemed OK.
    I have had this problem with other machinery, what side is affected depends whether they are studs or nuts.
    It only took about a Km after a rattle was noticed and it nearly parted company. No damage done.
    Any Froggy fix? Like locktite or twitched wire?
    I am now using the said (front) wheel as a spare.

    Rex B

    Advertisement
    2CV6 Special Green, Riley RMB, RX7 Rotary, Jensen Healey, 1896 Ford A replica, and last but not least 1961 Citroen ID19-P... Previous include, 27 Chev Truck, 24 Bean Truck, 27 Chev Capitol, Rover S105, Humber Hawk x 2, MGB, Ford AA Truck, Ford A, elderly motorbikes x6, and more...

  2. #2
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,508

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wilrex View Post
    Has anyone had the problem of a wheel coming loose on the single stud type wheels?
    This one was checked about 500km ago when the wheel caps were fitted, seemed OK.
    I have had this problem with other machinery, what side is affected depends whether they are studs or nuts.
    It only took about a Km after a rattle was noticed and it nearly parted company. No damage done.
    Any Froggy fix? Like locktite or twitched wire?
    I am now using the said (front) wheel as a spare.

    Rex B
    Is the "new" wheel staying affixed? It sounds like the center bolt is worn or stripped to the point that it can't tighten. I would also carefully check the hub nut- it may exhibit the same wear, and not allowing the nut to draw tight and spread the fingers on the hub. Don't do Loctite- you will regret it.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Castlemaine VIC
    Posts
    352

    Default

    I agree with Hotrodelectric. This wheel fit is a brilliant design that shouldn't give you trouble Rex.
    When fitting the wheel, while pushing it on, "wiggle" the wheel slightly, then insert the Allen Key and tighten. Then again "wiggle" the wheel while pushing and keep tightening until it's "home".
    Check for a stripped thread. I smear some grease on the hexagonal centre to help with this procedure. Hope this helps.
    Michael

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    3,021

    Default

    The original tool to tighten the hex drive screw was nearly a meter in length. This imparts considerable torque to the wheel fixing.
    Are you using the original tool or are you using a conventional Allen Key?
    If using the later you will never get it tight enough unless you resort to a length of bar on the end of the Allen Key!
    Cheers Gerry

  5. #5
    Member wilrex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Buninyong
    Posts
    79

    Default

    Problem fixed... I think.
    there was a film of paint on the inside of the wheel hub that was enough to let it come loose over time.
    A short test proves that just by loosening the stud by around 5 degrees is enough to make it rattle.
    I have operated on all the wheels and cleaned them up with a wire brush, light grease, and tighten, run, check, wheel caps on ...

    The LH inner ball joint ( manual steering) has a slight movement. Not causing a problem yet, but looks like it is not replaceable without replacing the complete LH unit. I don't think it is a ball, but a cone that has a conical spring on top. Any experience with these would be gratefully received. Can the spring be replaced, I wonder?

    Rex B
    2CV6 Special Green, Riley RMB, RX7 Rotary, Jensen Healey, 1896 Ford A replica, and last but not least 1961 Citroen ID19-P... Previous include, 27 Chev Truck, 24 Bean Truck, 27 Chev Capitol, Rover S105, Humber Hawk x 2, MGB, Ford AA Truck, Ford A, elderly motorbikes x6, and more...

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    3,021

    Default

    I assume that you are talking about the ball pins on the track rod coming from the steering relay.
    It is a ball pin with a semicircular cup on the tapered side of the pin and at the top a spring with a pressure pad that bears on a smaller hemispherical surface machined on the end of the Ball pin. The joint can be restored to a point by tapping on the flat surface whilst the housing is supported in a vice. This places more pressure on the spring and can eliminate movement making the joint tighter. However there is a point of no return and if this procedure has been done before there is no other option other than to replace the track rod.
    Make sure that you remove the rubber grease bellows before attempting this procedure. Then add extra grease ( I like Molybdenum Disulphide grease for this ) when reinstalling the rubber.
    You can get an idea of their construction by looking at the cross section drawing of a similar joint on the anti roll bar links in the ID19 or DS19 manual
    Last edited by gerrypro; 14th March 2016 at 02:00 PM.
    Cheers Gerry

  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,317

    Default

    I had a loose steering ball joint on the ugly pink car too... The spring must have just been seized. A couple of pumps of grease into it's nipple and it was 100% slop free and felt brand new. I figured the grease released the spring to re-tension the joint.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    3,021

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    I had a loose steering ball joint on the ugly pink car too... The spring must have just been seized. A couple of pumps of grease into it's nipple and it was 100% slop free and felt brand new. I figured the grease released the spring to re-tension the joint.
    Not all of them have grease nipples!
    Cheers Gerry

  9. #9
    Member wilrex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Buninyong
    Posts
    79

    Default

    Nor this one.. No nipples...
    Will try the afore mentioned method.
    This 1961 ID19 is in shakedown and engine run-in mode, following a complete engine, body, LHS to LHM conversion, new tyres, new paint, and everything else. There are sure to be some problems crop up. Now done about 1000km and I am getting used to the gear change positions. The hardest bit of the resto was getting the master brake cylinder lined and fitted with mineral oil cups and piston.
    I made a RH operating lever for the height control... Much easier to use.
    The engine runs well and cool, gearbox quiet, no oil pools on the ground yet, but a few things to tick off before I will be finished.

    Rex B
    2CV6 Special Green, Riley RMB, RX7 Rotary, Jensen Healey, 1896 Ford A replica, and last but not least 1961 Citroen ID19-P... Previous include, 27 Chev Truck, 24 Bean Truck, 27 Chev Capitol, Rover S105, Humber Hawk x 2, MGB, Ford AA Truck, Ford A, elderly motorbikes x6, and more...

  10. #10
    Member wilrex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Buninyong
    Posts
    79

    Default

    I fitted 1/8th. Gas grease nipples to both LH and RH sides of this steering joint. It was found that it was not an issue of wear, but the inability of it to be lubricated properly. When I drilled the hole and cleaned out the scarf with a magnet, a good dose of WD40, then after fitting the grease nipple , filling the gap with grease which has solved the problem.

    Regarding the tightening of the central wheel stud, when checked with a torque wrench, it was found that the most I had tightened it was 90 ft.lb.. Should be 102-146 ft.lb...
    Only just obtainable with the original long hex wrench supplied with the car..

    Rex B
    2CV6 Special Green, Riley RMB, RX7 Rotary, Jensen Healey, 1896 Ford A replica, and last but not least 1961 Citroen ID19-P... Previous include, 27 Chev Truck, 24 Bean Truck, 27 Chev Capitol, Rover S105, Humber Hawk x 2, MGB, Ford AA Truck, Ford A, elderly motorbikes x6, and more...

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    3,021

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wilrex View Post
    I fitted 1/8th. Gas grease nipples to both LH and RH sides of this steering joint. It was found that it was not an issue of wear, but the inability of it to be lubricated properly. When I drilled the hole and cleaned out the scarf with a magnet, a good dose of WD40, then after fitting the grease nipple , filling the gap with grease which has solved the problem.

    Regarding the tightening of the central wheel stud, when checked with a torque wrench, it was found that the most I had tightened it was 90 ft.lb.. Should be 102-146 ft.lb...
    Only just obtainable with the original long hex wrench supplied with the car..

    Rex B
    Problem Solved?
    Cheers Gerry

  12. #12
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    10,703

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Not all of them have grease nipples!
    Easy: drill and tap with grease to retain turnings of metal, then fit small grease nipple? I've done this to great benefit on my Renault R8 ball joints.

    Just a thought.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •