Citroen C5 Wagon Tailgate Strut Recondition
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Thread: Citroen C5 Wagon Tailgate Strut Recondition

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Default Citroen C5 Wagon Tailgate Strut Recondition

    Now the story can be told!

    First some background. The gas struts on the C5 wagons up to 2008 or thereabouts, when the X7 model was introduced, are apparently all the same. According to ServiceBox (thanks French Connection) the Citroen part number for the main strut is 8731-F4 and the window strut 8731-F7, oh, and the circlip is 6979-85..

    In their infinite wisdom, the Citroen Engineers decided that the struts should be housed horizontally between the roof lining and the roof, which is fine except they also decided to use circlips on the inner end for some arcane reason, possibly related to assembly line sequences, but not for any obvious reason otherwise. These clips change a potentially straightforward changeover into something a bit more tedious.

    Interestingly, the X7 model apparently uses a different, simpler, method, perhaps a recognition that sometimes things don't have to be complex?

    Anyway, after obtaining a spare set of struts I decided to seek out ways of getting them re-gassed before I tackled the changeover process.

    The main struts are a combination of a gas strut internally mounted inside a spring that is under compression. The combined strength of the spring, gas strut, and the window struts all "in parallel" so to speak is the amount of springiness available to stop the big lump of metal caving in our collective skulls when loading or unloading.

    After a chat with David at Gas Strut Engineering in Fawkner I set about creating a means of dismantling the units so that the gas strut component could be dealt with like any other such strut. The pictures show one of these struts reduced to its component pieces, and the tool I created to facilitate the process.

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    The disassembly process is fairly simple. You need to take the load off the spring, remove the swivel mount from the "thick end" of the gas strut and slowly decompress the spring. The tool does exactly that, and also reverses the process for reassembly.

    The spring expands out to 450mm long when not under compression. When compressed it's 255mm long and exerts a force of 50 kg as measured on an old set of bathroom scales. This equates, roughly, to 500 Newtons

    The main gas strut is nominally inflated to 400 Newtons, or around 40 kg. The combined force being exerted on the tailgate by the main struts to hold it up then is nominally 2x400 + 2x500 or 1800 Newtons (180kg).

    Add to this the two window struts which add up to another 500N or 50kg and the total force is 2300N or roughly 230kg.

    Damn that tailgate must be heavy, although the angles imposed must predicate such huge forces.

    In any case, Now that David has regassed my struts my next task is to swap them over and try them out.

    More news on that once I get to it.

    Incidentally, David reckons he can regas the whole assembly, spring and all, but it does involve a bit of guesswork. Presenting him with just the bare strut assembly will be a lot easier for him and potentially more accurate.

    The pictures below should be fairly self explanatory I hope, or at least the captions should be explanatory and the pictures just graphic.

    Cheers for now, Pottsy.

    PS, once I've proven the whole concept, I'm happy to dismantle/reassemble these struts for Froggers and/or CCCV and/or COCCA Members, for a small nominal fee to cover my time and fuel getting over to Fawkner and back for the regassing. More on that anon.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Citroen C5 Wagon Tailgate Strut Recondition-overall-exploded-view-tool.jpg   Citroen C5 Wagon Tailgate Strut Recondition-tailgate-strut-assembly.jpg   Citroen C5 Wagon Tailgate Strut Recondition-tailgate-strut-detail-1.jpg   Citroen C5 Wagon Tailgate Strut Recondition-tailgate-strut-detail-2.jpg   Citroen C5 Wagon Tailgate Strut Recondition-window-strut-assembly.jpg   Citroen C5 Wagon Tailgate Strut Recondition-window-strut-detail-1.jpg  

    Citroen C5 Wagon Tailgate Strut Recondition-window-strut-detail-2.jpg   Citroen C5 Wagon Tailgate Strut Recondition-tailgate-strut-complete.jpg  
    Last edited by pottsy; 5th March 2016 at 12:40 AM.
    JAJEA and SLC206 like this.
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Also waiting in the wings
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  2. #2
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Wow.... Nice work indeed. That's quite a strut arrangement! the days of plastic tailgates are long gone.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
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    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
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    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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    skp
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    The actual change-over is not too difficult... except the roof lining keeps hanging in the way!
    Good to see a nice direction of the job.
    skp

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! deesse's Avatar
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    Hey Pottsy, now you know how to do it can I drop over and you can do mine as well
    cheers Tony

  5. #5
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    Thank you Pottsy beautifully presented, many grateful C5 owners will appreciate your work (and jig).

    And yes, there is a humongous load on those struts to hold up the tail gate from "within" the hinge.

    John

    John


    Quote Originally Posted by pottsy View Post
    Now the story can be told!

    First some background. The gas struts on the C5 wagons up to 2008 or thereabouts, when the X7 model was introduced, are apparently all the same. According to ServiceBox (thanks French Connection) the Citroen part number for the main strut is 8731-F4 and the window strut 8731-F7, oh, and the circlip is 6979-85..

    In their infinite wisdom, the Citroen Engineers decided that the struts should be housed horizontally between the roof lining and the roof, which is fine except they also decided to use circlips on the inner end for some arcane reason, possibly related to assembly line sequences, but not for any obvious reason otherwise. These clips change a potentially straightforward changeover into something a bit more tedious.

    Interestingly, the X7 model apparently uses a different, simpler, method, perhaps a recognition that sometimes things don't have to be complex?

    Anyway, after obtaining a spare set of struts I decided to seek out ways of getting them re-gassed before I tackled the changeover process.

    The main struts are a combination of a gas strut internally mounted inside a spring that is under compression. The combined strength of the spring, gas strut, and the window struts all "in parallel" so to speak is the amount of springiness available to stop the big lump of metal caving in our collective skulls when loading or unloading.

    After a chat with David at Gas Strut Engineering in Fawkner I set about creating a means of dismantling the units so that the gas strut component could be dealt with like any other such strut. The pictures show one of these struts reduced to its component pieces, and the tool I created to facilitate the process.

    The disassembly process is fairly simple. You need to take the load off the spring, remove the swivel mount from the "thick end" of the gas strut and slowly decompress the spring. The tool does exactly that, and also reverses the process for reassembly.

    The spring expands out to 450mm long when not under compression. When compressed it's 255mm long and exerts a force of 50 kg as measured on an old set of bathroom scales. This equates, roughly, to 500 Newtons

    The main gas strut is nominally inflated to 400 Newtons, or around 40 kg. The combined force being exerted on the tailgate by the main struts to hold it up then is nominally 2x400 + 2x500 or 1800 Newtons (180kg).

    Add to this the two window struts which add up to another 500N or 50kg and the total force is 2300N or roughly 230kg.

    Damn that tailgate must be heavy, although the angles imposed must predicate such huge forces.

    In any case, Now that David has regassed my struts my next task is to swap them over and try them out.

    More news on that once I get to it.

    Incidentally, David reckons he can regas the whole assembly, spring and all, but it does involve a bit of guesswork. Presenting him with just the bare strut assembly will be a lot easier for him and potentially more accurate.

    The pictures below should be fairly self explanatory I hope, or at least the captions should be explanatory and the pictures just graphic.

    Cheers for now, Pottsy.

    PS, once I've proven the whole concept, I'm happy to dismantle/reassemble these struts for Froggers and/or CCCV and/or COCCA Members, for a small nominal fee to cover my time and fuel getting over to Fawkner and back for the regassing. More on that anon.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    OK guys. It looks like there may be some small need for a dismantle and remantle service.

    Once I do the change on my car I'll have another pair of struts to recondition.

    What may be the easiest way is if I have a set "on the shelf" that are regassed, then a quick visit to Eltham, or a meet for coffee somewhere, could result in you returning home with a regassed pair and I can get the changeovers done for the next person who needs them.

    How does $50 the pair on a changeover basis sound? Not too greedy?

    Alternatively, for no charge other than your own fuel, you can come here and have your struts dismantled for you to seek regassing, then come back for reassembly.

    Oh, and no, I don't think it's wise for me to loan the unit out. I've had issues with special tools either disappearing or being returned damaged before.

    Your thoughts?

    Cheers, Pottsy

    PS> Oh, this only refers to the main struts that need to be dismantled. I recon I can do the window struts for $35 changeover the pair, once again this covers the regassing and fuel to Fawkner and back.

    So all four struts changeover, $75.00. Any warranty on the quality and duration of the regassing is up to Gas Strut Engineering. I'm only providing the dismantle/reassembly and getting them regassed by GSE.
    Last edited by pottsy; 5th March 2016 at 09:06 PM.
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Also waiting in the wings
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    That sounds more than fair Pottsy.
    David M likes this.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    A further update.

    I've just finished changing over my main struts in Mephistopheles. The difference is amazing!

    That being said, it's not a job I'm keen to repeat so I've deliberately left out the circlips. Given that the strut extended length is slightly more than the installed length, the inner mounting should always be under pressure so I don't believe being circlipless will cause any angst, other than to the Citroen Purists of course, to whom I apologise in advance for my cavalier attitude!

    Also, my offer in above posts is predicated on being presented with a set of struts that I haven't removed and I don't have to replace. Life's too short for me to willingly undertake that sort of frustration and time consumption.

    So the proof of this particular pudding will be the next Winter, or even cold mornings. On cooler days the 'gate would slowly drop on my head when parked nose up in our gently sloping driveway. On hot days it would just hold up and was generally OK when the car was level.

    I suspect now it simply won't matter what the weather is. Woohoo!

    So PM me if you want to arrange dismantling/remantling and/or regassing. I'll be visiting David this week to have the two I've just pulled out re-pressurised so I'll have a good pair on hand soon.

    Incidentally, while it's good recommended practice to replace these things in pairs, the improvement after replacing just one was incredible and probably would have sufficed for some time to come. I was sorely tempted to leave it at that but common sense prevailed and the bullet was proverbially bitten to replace the other side as well.

    Cheers, Pottsy

    PS. A further caveat I've just thought of. I don't know what sort of struts are on the sedans. If someone can loan me one to play with I can see if the same rig will serve for them. Until I can confirm or deny that the "service" will only address itself to pre-X7 (prior to 2007?) wagon tailgate struts.
    Last edited by pottsy; 9th March 2016 at 10:57 AM. Reason: caveat and typos
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Also waiting in the wings
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    A further update. I've now dismantled the struts that were on my car and find that these are charged to a nominal 440 Newtons, rather than the 400 printed on the others.

    The ones I had regassed and put in are from an earlier car so I assume they changed at some stage along the production timeline.

    Planning on visiting the regasser tomorrow so I should have a complete changeover set of regassed struts available very soon.

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Also waiting in the wings
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Fantastic Pottsy, great work! I'd certainly be keen to sort my wagon struts out in the next few months too. At 6'2" I don't know how many more knocks on the noggin I want to endure!

    Geoff.
    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


    1994 405 SRDT white - (free to a good home, unreg. & needs injector pump re-fitting)
    1997 Toyota Hilux Surf
    2007 Citroen C5 Hdi Wagon
    2003 Merc Vito 112Cdi
    non-sequitur - 1951 Hudson Pacemaker brush-painted matt black!

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Geoff, I have a pair on the shelf that have been re-gassed. Happy to do a changeover service for you once you remove your old ones.

    Re-installation is easy peasy once those $#%$#% circlips are removed.

    I may even be able to arrange a closer location for you to visit for the swap. Phillip Island any good to you?

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Also waiting in the wings
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! JAJEA's Avatar
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    May I suggest Topiram [Poowong North] (South of Drouin)?

    Regards,

    John

    Quote Originally Posted by pottsy View Post
    Geoff, I have a pair on the shelf that have been re-gassed. Happy to do a changeover service for you once you remove your old ones.

    Re-installation is easy peasy once those $#%$#% circlips are removed.

    I may even be able to arrange a closer location for you to visit for the swap. Phillip Island any good to you?

    Cheers, Pottsy

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    John, you can suggest, but it happens I'll be seeing a mate on Sunday who lives on PI.

    I figured it might be closer to Mirboo Nth for Geoff to get to. I can leave the reco units with the mate.

    Cheers, Pottsy.
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Also waiting in the wings
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  14. #14
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    Phillip Island is still an hour and a half from me Pottsy but I get up to Melbourne at least weekly to pick up and drop off jobs anyhow, so no problem finding you wherever you be!

    Currently half way through changing the auto fluid in my C-5, should be done mid-morning so I can pull the struts after that - haven't looked at how easy it is to get them out yet, are there instructions in service box or in Haynes of any use? My number is 0408 682 172, keen to get the bastards out so I'll look in the Haynes first to see if they have any handy tips involving coat hangers or fencing wire...
    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


    1994 405 SRDT white - (free to a good home, unreg. & needs injector pump re-fitting)
    1997 Toyota Hilux Surf
    2007 Citroen C5 Hdi Wagon
    2003 Merc Vito 112Cdi
    non-sequitur - 1951 Hudson Pacemaker brush-painted matt black!

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Step 1: Prop up the tailgate at fully open height with two bits of sturdy wood. (two in case you knock one inadvertently)
    Step 2: Remove the plastic trim from around the rear and sides of the roof lining.
    Step 3: Pull the back of the roof lining down enough to be able to reach in to the ends of the struts.
    Step 4: Slide in your mirror of choice and using a head torch, or similar, position it so you can see the offending circlips.
    Step 5: (And this is the tricky bit) Using circlip pliers, and possibly a screwdriver, expand and remove the circlips.
    Step 6: Once the circlip has pinged off into the great unknown, lever the ball end of the strut sideways off the ball, then weasel the whole thing out. (They do fit past through the available space)
    Step 7: Bring them to me in Eltham (Will PM Address) and swap them for a pair of reconditioned ones.
    Step 8: Reinstallation is the reverse of removal (Hah!) with the exception of those stupid circlips. The ball joint at the outer end has a spring clip that levers slightly outwards to enable the fitting to clip over the ball. I used a pair of multigrips to clip these back on.
    Step 9: Carefully remove the wooden props and test your newly sprung tailgate.
    Step 10: Retire to a sunny spot overlooking the garden with a cold beverage of choice and reflect upon mankind's mastery over inanimate objects!
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Also waiting in the wings
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Thanks for the steps involved in removal Pottsy!
    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


    1994 405 SRDT white - (free to a good home, unreg. & needs injector pump re-fitting)
    1997 Toyota Hilux Surf
    2007 Citroen C5 Hdi Wagon
    2003 Merc Vito 112Cdi
    non-sequitur - 1951 Hudson Pacemaker brush-painted matt black!

  17. #17
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    Dave @ Gas struts can fix/repair-whatever most of your struts.The only one so far he could not do was the bonnet struts on my 406 Coupe.At the time he said that he had never found a strut that was so small & strong.

    Dave is a rev. head from way back-Rallied Datsuns & baja type vehicles-desert rallies,ran in Round Australia Rally with his brother Ian.
    Also owned Datswreck so he is a very experienced guy who really enjoys getting the job done so you can get on with yours.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! JAJEA's Avatar
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    That's it, the time has come to tackle Pottsy's 10 Steps in the refurbishment of the C5's tailgate struts even though the hot weather is approaching to add a few more Newtons force (kilo's) in those struts.

    Those [email protected]#$dy circlips, without removing the entire roof lining so that you can face them head on, it is simply awkward to say the least. It is nearly impossible for somebody that is partially blind to remove them by looking in mirror without ruining them. Nervelessness, I have done so yesterday.

    To assist others, what I did / found was:

    1. As my tailgate was not that bad in that it never came crashing down but with any slight incline, it would not stay up. We also have a cat (Leo) that loves Citroens and many a time has brought the tailgate down on us. [No advice as to what we should do with Leo please.]
    So, Pottsy's step No. 1 was not followed - no need to do so until I was ready to remove the struts.

    2. I found it impossible to use the conventional circlip pliers looking in the mirror (eye sight not too good), I did how ever use a small external snap ring circlip pliers that has flat ends.

    Prior to doing so, I marked a vertical line on the C5 just where the strut protrudes in to the roof lining cavity and rotated each circlip so they faced vertically down. There after, the mirror was used to re align the circlip vertically down every time it moved upon attempting to expand the circlip to destruction in order to get behind the circlip with a small hooked screw driver to prise it off. It worked.

    3. Back to Pottsy's step 1. The tail gate was propped and the four struts removed.

    David Sheridan at Gas Strut Engineering checked out and to my surprise; the tail gate struts were to specifications but the window strut were not. The window struts were re-gassed and the 4 reinstalled.

    Tail gate operation was perfect / more than acceptable considering that if the tailed gate struts were to be pumped up a bit the wife may not be able to lower the tailgate.

    Those [email protected]#$dy circlips were not replaced and next time - very easy to remove the struts and re gas or replace without removing roof lining.

    John



    Quote Originally Posted by pottsy View Post
    Step 1: Prop up the tailgate at fully open height with two bits of sturdy wood. (two in case you knock one inadvertently)
    Step 2: Remove the plastic trim from around the rear and sides of the roof lining.
    Step 3: Pull the back of the roof lining down enough to be able to reach in to the ends of the struts.
    Step 4: Slide in your mirror of choice and using a head torch, or similar, position it so you can see the offending circlips.
    Step 5: (And this is the tricky bit) Using circlip pliers, and possibly a screwdriver, expand and remove the circlips.
    Step 6: Once the circlip has pinged off into the great unknown, lever the ball end of the strut sideways off the ball, then weasel the whole thing out. (They do fit past through the available space)
    Step 7: Bring them to me in Eltham (Will PM Address) and swap them for a pair of reconditioned ones.
    Step 8: Reinstallation is the reverse of removal (Hah!) with the exception of those stupid circlips. The ball joint at the outer end has a spring clip that levers slightly outwards to enable the fitting to clip over the ball. I used a pair of multigrips to clip these back on.
    Step 9: Carefully remove the wooden props and test your newly sprung tailgate.
    Step 10: Retire to a sunny spot overlooking the garden with a cold beverage of choice and reflect upon mankind's mastery over inanimate objects!

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