1970 DS - BVH query
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 20 of 20
Like Tree1Likes
  • 1 Post By Citroenfan

Thread: 1970 DS - BVH query

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Denmark, Western Aust.
    Posts
    748

    Default 1970 DS - BVH query

    "Vicky" my 1970 DS with BVH played up a couple of weeks ago. I'd driven it to to town to the new workshop at the machinery restoration shed to fix the fuel line. After doing the work the car would not start. With the battery starting to wane I got a lift home to return later to sort it out.

    In the process of checking over the ignition it was noticed that the vacuum advance on the Ducellier distributor was missing. However we couldn't find any obvious point on the manifold to connect to.

    Advertisement


    Does anyone with a BVH have a hose connecting the distributor vacuum advance to the manifold? If so could you post a pic of where it attaches please?
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

  2. #2
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    10,703

    Default

    Maybe check for a small brass tube on the carbie?

    There's something about you driving Citroens into Denmark.....

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Symar/ca/usa
    Posts
    607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rmac View Post
    "Vicky" my 1970 DS with BVH played up a couple of weeks ago. I'd driven it to to town to the new workshop at the machinery restoration shed to fix the fuel line. After doing the work the car would not start. With the battery starting to wane I got a lift home to return later to sort it out.

    In the process of checking over the ignition it was noticed that the vacuum advance on the Ducellier distributor was missing. However we couldn't find any obvious point on the manifold to connect to.

    Does anyone with a BVH have a hose connecting the distributor vacuum advance to the manifold? If so could you post a pic of where it attaches please?


    Should not matter whether it is a BVH or BVM. The tube is nylon and 5x7x400mm. Unless the intake manifold has been modified/replaced there should be a short nipple on the underside of the intake manifold just to the right of water supply hose. OTOH a lot of cars (at least here in NA) had either the distributors replaced (no VA) and that nipple capped or got a non VA intake manifold at some time in their lives.

    Steve

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,318

    Default

    It should be the other side of the throttle butterfly though ... so it needs to have a takeoff point from the carby DO NOT HOOK IT TO THE MANIFOLD DROOL TUBE !!! ( I have have seen that a couple of times ).

    seeya,
    shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Symar/ca/usa
    Posts
    607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    It should be the other side of the throttle butterfly though ... so it needs to have a takeoff point from the carby DO NOT HOOK IT TO THE MANIFOLD DROOL TUBE !!! ( I have have seen that a couple of times ).

    seeya,
    shane L.


    Shane is right - what happens when you do something to late at night. Typically you will find that little take off on the mounting plate for the carburetor. On a spare engine I have it is located just below the fiber riser plate the carb sits on. In the photo it is the black capped protrusion just below the large brass carburetor mixture knob. That is the vacuum take off for the distributor. And you may well find it capped off as this one is...........


    1970 DS - BVH query-dscf0797.jpg

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Citroenfan View Post
    Shane is right - what happens when you do something to late at night. Typically you will find that little take off on the mounting plate for the carburetor. On a spare engine I have it is located just below the fiber riser plate the carb sits on. In the photo it is the black capped protrusion just below the large brass carburetor mixture knob. That is the vacuum take off for the distributor. And you may well find it capped off as this one is...........


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSCF0797.JPG 
Views:	197 
Size:	87.6 KB 
ID:	81514
    I think that is still the wrong side of the throttle plate ... it's manifold side isn't it It should be obvious, I'll have a look at the cars tonight and see if I can find a DS with twin barrel carby for a piccie of it Is that a pollution car ?
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Symar/ca/usa
    Posts
    607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    I think that is still the wrong side of the throttle plate ... it's manifold side isn't it It should be obvious, I'll have a look at the cars tonight and see if I can find a DS with twin barrel carby for a piccie of it Is that a pollution car ?
    Hi Shane,

    The pic is from a 72 engine, LHD, and would have been pollution equipped when first sold in the US. The nipple is facing the distributor - almost a straight line in fact. I would think RHD cars would have the same basic placement with the nipple facing towards the distributor.

    Steve

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Citroenfan View Post
    Hi Shane,

    The pic is from a 72 engine, LHD, and would have been pollution equipped when first sold in the US. The nipple is facing the distributor - almost a straight line in fact. I would think RHD cars would have the same basic placement with the nipple facing towards the distributor.

    Steve
    I reckon it's blanked off pollution attachment points. The dizzie advance has to be on the carby itself
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Symar/ca/usa
    Posts
    607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    I reckon it's blanked off pollution attachment points. The dizzie advance has to be on the carby itself
    Hi Shane,

    AFAIK that 'port' is the only vacuum source for either the dizzy or the air pump's gulp valve. And, if I remember correctly (keeping in mind that we are going back some 40+ years here) is the reason why later USA cars that were pollution controlled equipped did not have VA dizzies. And I could not find any real definitive illustrations in any of the relevant parts books either . But if Mac's car does have that little port on the intake manifold it could be used as a vacuum source for the distributor using a suitable hose. If his car does not, I really cannot think of any other place where a suitable vacuum would be found.

    Steve

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Denmark, Western Aust.
    Posts
    748

    Default

    Thanks for the pic citrofan. I've found the top two knobs/nuts but there is no nipple underneath it on mine. Being a BVH there is not much room around the carbie with the hydraulic bits hanging on there. Even feeling, where I can get my fat fingers into I can't feel anything.

    Thanks also to the other contributions. Do I make the correct inference that the tube is not vital/important?
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! badabec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ongar / England
    Posts
    811

    Default

    Hello, ignore it. It couldn't have been connected for ages. Is the car running properly now? Spending your money for you (my wife does that to me all the time), buy a 123 dizzy.

    Peter

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    Posts
    1,955

    Default

    The nipple underneath (US cars) was for the pollution control gulp valve. AFAIK, know D was ever delivered with a vacuum advance dizzy. Methinks some well meaning smart guy put Peugeot parts on your CitroŽn.

  13. #13
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    10,703

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by badabec View Post
    Hello, ignore it. It couldn't have been connected for ages. Is the car running properly now? Spending your money for you (my wife does that to me all the time), buy a 123 dizzy. Peter
    I certainly agree with the 123.

    I've never looked closely at a DS in this regard, but Shane and I are sort of saying the same thing. My Solex carbies have a brass tube on the main body of the carbie or the top cover, going directly to the distributor vacuum advance. My 123 has a vacuum pipe too, to the Weber carbie, not to the manifold.

    Cupla phone calls to Perth perhaps Ross? What does your other DS have? I recall SKP had serviced it that time I drove it down to Denmark (ANY time you need that doing again....) and he'd know.

    The other thing that occurs to me is that the car should be running like a pig if there is a vacuum leak due to the tube not being connected where it had been before.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Symar/ca/usa
    Posts
    607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by daffyduck View Post
    The nipple underneath (US cars) was for the pollution control gulp valve. AFAIK, know D was ever delivered with a vacuum advance dizzy. Methinks some well meaning smart guy put Peugeot parts on your CitroŽn.
    Actually my parents 62 ID had a vacuum advance dizzy - but have never seen a 5 main car with one here in the US.

    From the 123 website and seems to explain it

    123\DS-A is a distributor, specifically targeted for the Citroen ID/DS. It contains all the curves for carbureted ID/DS-engines as originally specified by Citroen, for cars after July 1959.

    With a switch you can easily choose the advance-curve that was specified for your engine.

    It comes with an angled distributor-cap, for easy access to the sparkplug-leads.
    Might you prefer un upright cap, please specify a '123\DS-R'

    For ID's until 2/1964 Citroen used a distributor with vacuum-advance. To replace this you should order a '123\DS-R-V'.

    ID-19B's from 9-'66 until 9-'68 with 'DV'-engine , and DS19A / DS19MA & ID19FA with 'DY'-engine from '65 to '68 require a different fixation. For these cars we offer a '123\DV-R' with a special mounting bracket.

    Steve

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    Posts
    1,955

    Default

    Well? A 1962 is certainly not a 1970 which is the subject at hand.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Symar/ca/usa
    Posts
    607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by daffyduck View Post
    Well? A 1962 is certainly not a 1970 which is the subject at hand.
    Well as mentioned earlier have never seen a later (5 main) car with one . OTOH Mac might do well to replace his with the appropriate 123 - did on my two D's and could not be happier. Just ordered one for the 2CV also.

    Steve

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Denmark, Western Aust.
    Posts
    748

    Default

    Cost is the major obstacle to using a 123 unfortunately. With the volatility in the financial markets our super has taken a bit of a slide and "discretionary" spending has become a bit more problematic.
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

  18. #18
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,318

    Default

    I don't think I'd go the 123 route .... I'd order in a trigger wheel and convert the car to megasquirt and megajolt Oneday I'm going to do this ... I'm itching to mess with one of those kits when I have some $$$ and time.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  19. #19
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    10,703

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rmac View Post
    Cost is the major obstacle to using a 123 unfortunately. With the volatility in the financial markets our super has taken a bit of a slide and "discretionary" spending has become a bit more problematic.
    Yes, quite understand. The Hot Spark compromise is a good one if the dizzie is in reasonable order.

    I bought the 123 when I was still working more or less full time (NOT doing that now, and greatly enjoying improved life style!).
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Symar/ca/usa
    Posts
    607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Yes, quite understand. The Hot Spark compromise is a good one if the dizzie is in reasonable order.

    I bought the 123 when I was still working more or less full time (NOT doing that now, and greatly enjoying improved life style!).
    I understand also - in my case with the 72 I more or less was forced into the 123. I had the cam redone during its engine overhaul and in the process a more aggressive profile was done. When back together I just could not get the dizzy's advance correct changing springs and fiddeling with its cam profile. So took the plunge (thing was fairly worn out anyway) and got the 123 with the adjustable curve settings. Found, a bit to my surprise, that the advance setting for a late model 23 EI car worked just fine with the modified 2.1 engine. 138,000 miles later (with the 123) and have never looked back. The other thing I did later on was install a set of NGK Iridium plugs and a very high voltage coil (60,000 volts). Increased the plug gap about 40% over normal (0.38"). Engine runs a charm. On trips I have taken with the car over the years avg fuel economy is in the range of 27mph (US gallons) at speeds in the 75+ range.

    Like Shane I had/have looked at the MegaSquirt system. OTOH not real sure that it would improve anything at this point.

    Steve
    JohnW likes this.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •