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    Fellow Frogger! mberry's Avatar
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    Default Michelin X

    No I don't know the date of manufacture, but, for someone these could be handy.

    Michelin X Tyres TO Suit Lancia Aurelia Citroen ID19 DS Alfa 1900 165x400 in VIC | eBay

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    1000+ Posts driven's Avatar
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    if more than 4 years old.....Bin them

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I'd use them if they had no evidence of rotting or cracking.... How far and how fast would I be driving a traction either way .............

    55mph is a lot gentler on tires than the 90mph a DS/ID can cruise at!


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    Fellow Frogger! mberry's Avatar
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    I was thinking there is likely a early DS that doesn't spend much time on the road, and probably not in the wet. There are some people who prefer their Michelins with a little of shelf age, makes them last longer.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mberry View Post
    I was thinking there is likely a early DS that doesn't spend much time on the road, and probably not in the wet. There are some people who prefer their Michelins with a little of shelf age, makes them last longer.
    The likelyhood of a DS being given a blast out to 90mph is high though, even if it's rarely driven .... It's probably 2days since I rolled the ID tires over onto there sidewall by cornering a bit hard. You need to treat those tires with respect as they don't have much sidewall strength.
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by driven View Post
    if more than 4 years old.....Bin them
    That's a bit harsh! They are unlikely to be rallied or to do track work!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Perfect for static display or slave wheels.

    It's just hard to forget that UK story of the MG owner fitting NOS original issue tyres and then being killed in the rollover after the inevitable blowout.
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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Although obviously NOT the ones in the eBay ad, Michelin does have an antique tyre division and occasionally uses the moulds to produce tyres using fresh rubber compound. From memory the division is based in the UK not France, but I think the tyres themselves are moulded in France.

    I happened to luck in a number of years ago (circa 2003 or 4) and bought 5 ordered through my local Bob Jane at a time when there was stock available at quite a reasonable price. They are still on the car and show no signs of cracking or issues but probably should be replaced. I put their longevity down to long periods parked in the garage out of the sun.
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    KB


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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    Although obviously NOT the ones in the eBay ad, Michelin does have an antique tyre division and occasionally uses the moulds to produce tyres using fresh rubber compound. From memory the division is based in the UK not France, but I think the tyres themselves are moulded in France.

    I happened to luck in a number of years ago (circa 2003 or 4) and bought 5 ordered through my local Bob Jane at a time when there was stock available at quite a reasonable price. They are still on the car and show no signs of cracking or issues but probably should be replaced. I put their longevity down to long periods parked in the garage out of the sun.
    I recently purchased five new Michelin X 165.400 tyres and tubes from Longstones, (had them in a week, about same price after duty, as Stuckeys, who were out of stock,) they were actually made in Serbia ! And were marked as tube type only.
    Anyway, the ID19 repair manual specifies the pressure as 20 PSI rear, and 24 PSI front. Seems low to me, but I did have Michelin X tyres on a Falcon years ago, good ride but rolled all over the place. (One ply sidewalls)

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    55mph is a lot gentler on tires than the 90mph a DS/ID can cruise at!.
    I told you not to fit a flux capacitor to a Traction as my calculations suggest at 55MPH your not going to see some serious shit.
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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Perfect for static display or slave wheels.

    It's just hard to forget that UK story of the MG owner fitting NOS original issue tyres and then being killed in the rollover after the inevitable blowout.
    Exactly my thought. At 400.00AU, they're cheap enough for that last detail. A set of tubes to help keep stress low on the sidewalls, but no more driving than on/off the trailer.

    Looking at the 3 pics, the first one is the set stacked up. Looking at the top tire, it looks like a chunk of rubber is gone. Am I wrong?
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    It's just hard to forget that UK story of the MG owner fitting NOS original issue tyres and then being killed in the rollover after the inevitable blowout.
    That's MGs for you.

    Who cares if you do get a blowout in a D. I have experienced all kinds of tyre and wheel failures in Dees at all kinds of speeds on all kinds of roads and you don't feel a thing and you maintain control of the vehicle.

    Roger
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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    It was actually ZX in my case.
    But both the X, ZX and XAS still all appear available on the Michelin Classic website and their 2015-16 catalog (as opposed to Antique as I referred to them this morning).
    KB


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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    Who cares if you do get a blowout in a D. I have experienced all kinds of tyre and wheel failures in Dees at all kinds of speeds on all kinds of roads and you don't feel a thing
    Hi Roger,

    I completely agree, your personal safety is not at the same risk as a normal car...but, your panel work is, especially in something newly restored...

    Cheers,

    Mark....

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    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Looking at the 3 pics, the first one is the set stacked up. Looking at the top tire, it looks like a chunk of rubber is gone. Am I wrong?
    The photos are quite high resolution. I enlarged it and to me it seems like a small thin flap of rubber left from the mold rather than a missing chunk, but hard to be definitive.

    Name:  aaaa tyre 1.jpg
Views: 333
Size:  101.2 KB
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    Fair enough, Mark. One rear tyre blowout at low speed on a gravel road did blow the left rear mudguard clean off! Fortunately it was a decidedly rough ID19.

    Roger
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    This may be an actual live example of what happens to aged Michelin X tyres. Way back in 2000 I staked a tyre on the 8, the only tyres available were Michelin X "Classic" in the desired 145 x 15 size. When they arrived from the eastern states supplier, it was noted they were the better part of nearly four years old (it didn't occur that a tyre place would sell such an old tyre), but I needed tyres. They were replaced after two years to get a matching set of XZX (which at that time were of new manufacture and reasonably priced). The 2000 mile old X were stored in the indoors box room as an emergency spare or an ornament with its nice looking tread. It was never used, but last year it was noted that the tyre was cracking on the sidewalls. See the attached pics.

    It it hard to see the Michelin typeface on the Ebay tyres, but the Classic production X has a modern wide Michelin typeface unlike the earlier tyres. However, the DOT code will have all the answers as to the age of the Ebay tyres. Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to point out, in longhand, is that 20 year old tyres, especially thin sidewall X, are certainly way past their useby date - regardless of superior Citroen D-series suspension characteristics.

    If they are actually old tyres, don't even think about using them on the road. And if they are old aged NOS Michelin X Classic purchased for display only, note that concours points may be lost if they have the modern wide type Michelin typeface - just hang the expense, buy a new set (check the DOT date before paying!), and enjoy the drive :-)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Michelin X-dsc07696.jpg   Michelin X-dsc07697.jpg  
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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIVEDOOR View Post
    The photos are quite high resolution. I enlarged it and to me it seems like a small thin flap of rubber left from the mold rather than a missing chunk, but hard to be definitive.

    Name:  aaaa tyre 1.jpg
Views: 333
Size:  101.2 KB
    Definitely a molding flap!
    BTW they sold for $405 AUD
    Last edited by gerrypro; 25th February 2016 at 10:42 PM.
    Cheers Gerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi Roger,

    I completely agree, your personal safety is not at the same risk as a normal car...but, your panel work is, especially in something newly restored...

    Cheers,

    Mark....

    Even if a D behaves relatively well in a blowout situation (de Gaulle and so on, yes. DIRAVI CX/SM/XM/Khamsin should be better although 'feel' is artificial), the grip from those four tiny patches of old and hard rubber is compromised. Maybe, you'll just go straight on instead of around? I think you guys are giving yourselves (and your passengers) a false sense of security.

    For the record, I've fortunately never had to deal with a blowout situation in a D or any other car, but I have certainly experienced a loss of grip and direction, so I'd prefer to improve my chances as much as possible, whenever possible.
    Last edited by David S; 25th February 2016 at 11:09 PM.

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    Simon, it's not just the suspension that makes a D handle so forgivingly. It is also the centre-point steering geometry.

    Roger

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    Simon, it's not just the suspension that makes a D handle so forgivingly. It is also the centre-point steering geometry.
    I know.
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    I personally wouldn't use Michelin XVS, XZX, Xas, ZX or X (in order of increasing lethality) even if brand new with a 0816 date stamp & a modern Michelin compound (Michelin's low end modem tyres are hardly a shining example of compounding chemistry) if I had almost any other alternative bar chinese dreadfuls. However, those of you on 400 rims don't have an alternative*.

    Rough rules of thumb for tyre age are:
    - at 5 years one will have noticeably diminished wet grip, &
    - at 10 years one will have a considerable chance of structural failure.

    It is a very poor argument to note that one is not concerned to drive fast in the wet. Two scenarios should exercise the mind: the emergency stop in the wet & the emergency swerve in the wet.

    I'm also not impressed by talk of structural failure being a non issue. Have it happen when one's positively cambering suspension is torturing a tyre in a turn & a rim digging in is a plausible scenario.

    If one must buy new/old Michelin types, view them as a maintenance replacement item at 10 years of age at most (by reference to manufacturing date stamp, not date of purchase). Same rule as any tyre really.

    cheers! Peter

    *edit:
    actually, I see that you do have an alternative: Pirelli's fabric-belted Cinturato.
    Last edited by 4cvg; 26th February 2016 at 01:44 AM.

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIVEDOOR View Post
    The photos are quite high resolution. I enlarged it and to me it seems like a small thin flap of rubber left from the mold rather than a missing chunk, but hard to be definitive.

    Name:  aaaa tyre 1.jpg
Views: 333
Size:  101.2 KB

    I wasn't able to expand them out, so I couldn't tell the difference. Thanks.
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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    I personally wouldn't use Michelin XVS, XZX, Xas, ZX or X (in order of increasing lethality) even if brand new with a 0816 date stamp & a modern Michelin compound (Michelin's low end modem tyres are hardly a shining example of compounding chemistry) if I had almost any other alternative bar chinese dreadfuls. However, those of you on 400 rims don't have an alternative*.

    Rough rules of thumb for tyre age are:
    - at 5 years one will have noticeably diminished wet grip, &
    - at 10 years one will have a considerable chance of structural failure.

    It is a very poor argument to note that one is not concerned to drive fast in the wet. Two scenarios should exercise the mind: the emergency stop in the wet & the emergency swerve in the wet.

    I'm also not impressed by talk of structural failure being a non issue. Have it happen when one's positively cambering suspension is torturing a tyre in a turn & a rim digging in is a plausible scenario.

    If one must buy new/old Michelin types, view them as a maintenance replacement item at 10 years of age at most (by reference to manufacturing date stamp, not date of purchase). Same rule as any tyre really.

    cheers! Peter

    *edit:
    actually, I see that you do have an alternative: Pirelli's fabric-belted Cinturato.
    Your arguments are quite valid. I've had XZX tires on my second R5 that were cracking severely after only a couple of years. Those were fresh tires bought from Sears when they sold Michelins. The only Michelins I've had that didn't crack and fail were the X-Ones on my 505 2.0 wagon, and the Hydro-Edges on my Taurus. Both of those were quite expensive new (not TRX levels, but still). Both were quite good, I love the way they drove. Which is why they're no longer available. I know the Michelin Destiny radials are quite good, and I desperately want to replace the squirrelly radials the Mercedes came with, but at 700.00 a set....
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post


    cheers! Peter

    *edit:
    actually, I see that you do have an alternative: Pirelli's fabric-belted Cinturato.
    There is only one tyre that looks right on a post war traction and that is a 165x400 Michelin X with the 'Stop' tread pattern!
    Cheers Gerry

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