C5 2001 V6. Should I or shouldn't I
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Thread: C5 2001 V6. Should I or shouldn't I

  1. #1
    UNM
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    Default C5 2001 V6. Should I or shouldn't I

    Very tempted by a C5 2001 V6.

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    Generally good. For sale by a jag specialist who says it was a trade in against a jag. He says gearbox completely rebuilt (whatever that means).
    Previous owner put in a massive Alpine amp in the boot and a hard wired VDO GPS unit. No sign of any speaker upgrades though, unless fitted to original grilles.
    It seems to have minor fluid leakage - drip of oil like stuff at drivers CV boot - I am suspecting that might come from the hydraulic suspension rather than the boot itself.

    Edit: Also noticed signs of staining near rear centre sphere. Could be sweating slightly, or could have come from somewhere else and seeped down. No sign of a real leak as such.


    Engine sounds good, suspension raises and lowers with no fuss. all electrics seem to work, tyres good, interior excellent. Apparently has good service history, but he didn't have books to hand.

    Couldn't take for a test drive as it was at the back of his workshop and too many jags being worked on to get it out.

    Will go back for a test drive, assuming this is not known as a model to steer clear of. What other things should I check and what questions to ask? I wasn't looking for a V6, as I only know the 2.0l engine from a previous Peugeot.
    Last edited by UNM; 23rd February 2016 at 03:19 PM.

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    It's a $200 car without a RWC, are you game to make it a manual trans? Then you'd have a cracking unit. Leak is probably return pipe, the clic-clip pliers to fit it correctly cost almost much as the hose.

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    Fellow Frogger! Trading Estate's Avatar
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    No (unless you enjoy constant pain)
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    UNM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trading Estate View Post
    No (unless you enjoy constant pain)

    Ah well. No good.


    For pain to have maximum effect it should be intermittent, random and in varying degrees. Constant pain loses its impact after a while.
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    GO FOR IT !!!! We enjoy watching the agony of others while they desperately try to fix weird electrical problems and broken gearboxes .......................... It makes us feel better about all the time and money we put into driving old battered cars long past there prime

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    Default Hmmm.. what some people do !

    Quote Originally Posted by UNM View Post
    Ah well. No good.


    For pain to have maximum effect it should be intermittent, random and in varying degrees. Constant pain loses its impact after a while.
    Hi UNM
    I am not sure why people are so cruel ? That is not a bad model as C5s go. It depends on what you want from it IMHO. If it is reasonable and cheap and going OK on a test drive then it may be a bit of a fun car. Depends on the details too.
    Test drive it and see what happens.
    Jaahn

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    It cost almost $60K when new and is well equipped, but would be no different to many other 15 yo cars if it has had numerous owners who bumped the problems along to the next owner. They do have their issues, but are a pleasant car to own if it has been looked after. They don't have to be insanely expensive to look after and quite a lot can be done DIY if you want to. I could rattle off a list of possible things to look for, but they've been covered in this forum before in greater detail. Suffice to say, the most important thing to look at is the gearbox as the cost of addressing a failed one is significant and usually renders the car scrap. Sometimes, you can get away with only a pump repair as that is a common failure mode.

    As you mention some apparent LDS leakage, be aware that both the power steering and front suspension piping assemblies do tend to weep/leak after a few years and can be expensive to replace or repair. ON a V6, it is really best to do both at the same time as you need to drop the subframe. The usual faults are to do with the crimped rubber sections and maybe the steering pressure sensor. The rest of the other possible issues will not be as expensive to sort out or are simply used car / routine maintenance issues. There are a number being wrecked, so parts are around.

    For regular maintenance, a timing belt is a fairly big job on the ES9 engine and can be expensive once you add up a new tensioner, water pump and a set of rollers and so on. By contrast, the 4 cylinder cars are typically less costly to maintain. In any case, it's a good idea to determine whether the timing belt is due and have some idea of cost.

    You want to avoid a rough example, unless it is for parts. A cheap one with problems stored up can turn out to be very expensive. It will depend on what you want to buy and your budget, but it can be a lot of car for very little money. The facelifted V6s were not as common as the diesel models because focus and buyer interest shifted from petrol to the HDis in the second part of the 2000's. Yet they gained an excellent 6 speed gearbox to replace the 4 speeder, plus turning headlamps and often a sunroof etc., so these now represent excellent value for money.
    Last edited by David S; 23rd February 2016 at 07:19 PM.

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    UNM
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    Thanks David. As the car was traded with gearbox problems and had a rebuild done, that might be a good omen (seller said he spent $2K on that alone). Knowing what was done inside the box is probably important information as it could be they only fixed a single problem, or they might have serviced other stuff while in there.

    Will take a closer look at the leak next time and verify if it is LDS or something else. If just the return line from the hydraulic ram, then probably not a big issue as long as it is minor.

    Apparently most of the services were done by Citroen, but again not seen the books yet.

    There is also a diesel of similar vintage for a few hundy more, but it is a long way away from me and no mention of service history or internal condition. At least this is local so easy to inspect.
    It is tempting as much to learn hydractive suspension systems as anything else.


    Edit: And yes, will check the timing belt. Seems straightforward enough for a DIY job, but still $450 just for the belt kit.

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    It depends on who did what, but commercially, $2K would cover a new pump, maybe a converter rebuild and the labour. The problem can be a blocked pickup and you can't get at the filter - stupid design really. The symptom was probably a loss of drive / slipping and noise (initially cavitation) from the bellhousing / pump. A complete rebuild with all clutch packs replaced would cost more. So, yes, ask. You may get more for the quoted costs if it was done in-house.

    The front strut leakback hoses are a common cause of leakage because they are non-reinforced rubber, always moving and they perish. These are the same as Xantia and XM and OK with both LDS and LHM - you want R-clip pliers to deal with the special clip.

    The suspension hoses run from the pump in the RHF corner to the RH strut and down to the stiffness regulator (3rd sphere) down low in the middle and then over to the LH strut. The common failure area is the rubber joiner where they run around the back of the firewall just in front of the driver. This tends to run off the subframe near the steering pinion. Follow the pipes around and you will find the short rubber sections I refer to.

    The timing belt can be a DIY job. You could use your judgement about whether it warrants replacing everything, but a water pump is not very expensive, so worth doing. I think the belt job requires removing the engine mount. Apart from sagging, these sometimes snap off the stud and the engine then 'walks'.

    Not all 'Hydractive' systems are actually Hydractive. There's Hydractive 3 and 3+, being the C5 versions of regular Xantia/XM non-Hydractive and proper Hydractive, respectively. That HDi probably only has a sphere at each corner, but they do ride quite nicely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    So, yes, ask. You may get more for the quoted costs if it was done in-house.
    Yes, as it was a trade to trade transaction, possibly, but not certain. Your breakdown on what might have been done is useful.
    No receipt avail, but apparently the company that did the work is likely to remember it or have records.

    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    The front strut leakback hoses are a common cause of leakage because they are non-reinforced rubber, always moving and they perish. These are the same as Xantia and XM and OK with both LDS and LHM - you want R-clip pliers to deal with the special clip.
    Been thinking about getting some - are these the same as clip for CV joint boots?
    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    The suspension hoses run from the pump in the RHF corner to the RH strut and down to the stiffness regulator (3rd sphere) down low in the middle and then over to the LH strut. The common failure area is the rubber joiner where they run around the back of the firewall just in front of the driver. This tends to run off the subframe near the steering pinion. Follow the pipes around and you will find the short rubber sections I refer to.

    The timing belt can be a DIY job. You could use your judgement about whether it warrants replacing everything, but a water pump is not very expensive, so worth doing. I think the belt job requires removing the engine mount. Apart from sagging, these sometimes snap off the stud and the engine then 'walks'.

    Not all 'Hydractive' systems are actually Hydractive. There's Hydractive 3 and 3+, being the C5 versions of regular Xantia/XM non-Hydractive and proper Hydractive, respectively. That HDi probably only has a sphere at each corner, but they do ride quite nicely.
    I had found out about 3 and 3+ differences elsewhere, so I am already picking up some of the basics. I will check the rubber section carefully. Yes, the engine mount has to come off to do the belt if it is needed.

    Even if I don't buy it, this has been a learning experience - many thanks.

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    I guess they'd crimp the CV joint bands. You might be able to use pincers to squeeze and release the clips, but it's a fiddle and you have to avoid bending the hooked end if you want to reuse the original clip. I'd taken a few off before by using a pick and they would never go back on securely. Using the pliers the last time, I was able to reuse the clips with confidence. The alternative way is to salvage the pad from the clip and secure it to the strut with a hose clip, which works perfectly well.

    If you want to DIY with proper Hydractive, a Xantia or XM might be a little easier to play with as you eliminate a layer of electronic systems. All V6 XMs sold here are proper Hydractive cars, but only some of the Xantias are. The later cars have a hydraulic anti-sink system, which adds some further complication, but this is not needed in the C5 as that has an electric pump.
    Last edited by David S; 24th February 2016 at 12:37 AM.

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    UNM
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    Now you have me thinking the '94 Xantia currently for sale might be an option. It is pretty old, but low K's and, as you say, simpler

    Too many options. About time I just made a decision. If I go Citroen, you'll see more from me on this section and less on the Peugeot side.
    Last edited by UNM; 24th February 2016 at 12:08 PM.

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Start by purchasing the clip pliers, either choice will see them used.

    Random example: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/171830147834

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    I have "experienced" 4 Xantias
    They are rubbish
    I have a C5 V6
    I would not touch one unless you know it's complete history
    The 4HP20 needs it's oil changed regularly or it will die
    On the other hand my work car which is a 406 hdi has been faultless

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    My experience, I wouldn't touch any C5 at any price. And a good number of the C5's I've encountered in the wreckers have been V6s.
    addo is right, it's a $200 car without rwc. Do the maths, offer the guy $200 plus the cost of rego or walk away. You'll save your dough in the short term and end up with a lot less stress.

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    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Hi UNM and welcome to this forum. Please let me know if you don't want it. IE if you dont buy it. I'd like to know where it is. For $200.00 with a rebuilt gearbox sounds like it's worth a punt.
    Mine is a 2004 V6 with the 4HP20 auto and it's a fantastic quality luxury car. A workmate and I took a punt and bought one with faults, and we are having trouble sorting it out. Yet mine is still fantastic.
    Please PM me with details if you decide not to buy this V6. Cheers.. George 1/8th.

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    The 3s have only a sphere in each corner, 3+ has extras. Sitting in the car the 3+ version has a sports button "S" the 3 does not, easier than crawling around the car. Touch wood my C5 hdi is fine but it was properly serviced from new. Have done the front strut rubbers, quite easy & a radiator hose clip works fine instead of the fancy clip.

    Regards

    agd123

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    Quote Originally Posted by agd123 View Post
    The 3s have only a sphere in each corner, 3+ has extras. Sitting in the car the 3+ version has a sports button "S" the 3 does not, easier than crawling around the car. Touch wood my C5 hdi is fine but it was properly serviced from new. Have done the front strut rubbers, quite easy & a radiator hose clip works fine instead of the fancy clip.

    agd123
    It is a 3+ and everythign seems fine, except for the signs of leakage I mentioned earlier.

    I have now agreed to buy a Volvo S60 at a similar price, so no Citroen for me (for a while at least). Shall head on back to the Peugeot side as I still have involvement with a couple pugs.

    Been interesting learning a little about Citroens. One day I shall play with one and I'll have more of a browse among the threads here to broaden my knowledge. Thanks to all who offered advice/tips.

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    Fellow Frogger! badabec's Avatar
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    Or buy a Hyundai (which won't go wrong) and a 2CV to 'raid' with all the spare time and money you'll have.

    I had a Hyundai Accent from new, in the 13 years I had it, just a battery after 10 years and exhaust after 12.



    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by badabec View Post
    Or buy a Hyundai (which won't go wrong) and a 2CV to 'raid' with all the spare time and money you'll have.

    I had a Hyundai Accent from new, in the 13 years I had it, just a battery after 10 years and exhaust after 12.



    Peter
    Pretty much the same reliability record as my 6-year to 20-year old secondhand Xantia over about 13-14 years. Manual, 4-cylinder and one prior owner and serviced correctly.

    I must say, the only way I'd touch a 15-year automatic C5 would be as a project car, not the "main vehicle" that we just needed to go, day after day. Nice cars, no doubt, but I'd not want one unless it was a situation, like our CX, where if it decided not to go for some obscure reason, it would not matter and would be fixed in the fullness of time. Life is partly about managing stresses!

    As a spare car, my impressions of riding in a C5 have been very good indeed and I can see the attraction. Much better primary safety than a Xantia too. MUCH better.

    Cheers
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    JohnW

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    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    This thread had us all fooled.
    The guy selling this near perfect C5 wants $2,500 for it. It's a very fair price for the condition and mileage. It has a fully rebuilt transmission, and the body looks new, not a scratch or a dent. It's not $200.00.

    If it was I'd already have it.
    cheers...

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    Quote Originally Posted by George 1/8th View Post
    This thread had us all fooled. The guy selling this near perfect C5 wants $2,500 for it. It's a very fair price for the condition and mileage. It has a fully rebuilt transmission, and the body looks new, not a scratch or a dent. It's not $200.00. If it was I'd already have it. cheers...
    Sounds very fair, if fully rebuilt.
    JohnW

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    Addo said "It's a $200 car without road-worthy" and everyone assumed that was it's advertised price...

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Yes, let's see Dave Cavanagh disagree with me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    Yes, let's see Dave Cavanagh disagree with me.
    But Dave has an entirely different type of "usage" in mind that the OP.

    A corollary of which is : "The purchase price in not necessarily what the car is worth, rather what it's worth to the person using it as transport/ purchasing it "
    Last edited by robmac; 28th February 2016 at 01:28 PM.
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