Question : Why Citroen CX's have not gained a place in the classic car scene.
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Thread: Question : Why Citroen CX's have not gained a place in the classic car scene.

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    Default Question : Why Citroen CX's have not gained a place in the classic car scene.

    Why the Citroen CX's have not gained a place in the classic car scene.
    They are beautiful, they were so advanced for their time, but still it is only Citroen buffs who identify with them.
    In terms of classic cars they are quite inexpensive, parts are available.....

    What gives ???? any ideas out there

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    the famous 18E pug206gti's Avatar
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    G'day,
    who knows ? Perhaps they are overshadowed by the D's.
    Perhaps they are those funny foreign/French cars that nobody knows about.
    Might be a good idea to keep the secret though. Just to keep the prices down, for those who do know.
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    If they haven't yet, they are becoming more recognised, and more appreciatedÖafter all they are far more interesting than the equivalent aged Ford Granada or Vauxhall Senator for example! (Or Holden Commodore)

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    Why are CX's not big as a classic car? They HATE you- that's why!

    A CX Citoren has the temperament of a Siamese cat deported to France during the Indo-China wars. The electrical system was evolved by people who didn't really understand what they were doing (I've re-wired a couple - no fuse for the electric windows!) the junior draftsman on the front suspension got the taper angle on the front roll bar ball joints at half what it should be, which is why they're such a b$#@%$d to get out when you want to change a drive shaft (measured it to be sure - put back in with never seize). Then there's the issue of getting used to the steering and brakes. Then getting used to the brakes again when it gets a return leak, gets low on fluid and puts air in the brake circuit - 2 seconds delay between apply pedal and brakes working.

    Every CX you own will do its best to scare you to death at least once. The combination of ventilated front disks and front handbrake means that if you have to push it in traffic, then park on a slope, the handbrake releases itself when the disks cool down and contract. If it's a CMatic with a broken park pawl in the transmission and you don't carry a couple of bricks - expensive crunch. Then there's the steering - as the car gets older it gets more extremist until it won't turn left in a hurry at all. Initially this can be fixed by re-gassing the main accumulator, but we ended up changing the whole steering column assembly after the car repeatedly tried to drive up the gutter and had to be wrenched back onto the road.

    Using CXs as daily drive cars meant rubbing their bellies with spanners to keep them happy every weekend. Admittedly they were doing a thousand k a week hammering up and down the New England Highway with whistler 2000 radar detectors fitted.

    The heating & ventilation... The whole intake stack, fan motor and front section of the heater box is in the engine bay, mired in a mix of road grime, oil and LHM behind the crossmember. The whole thing heats up to 90 degrees C driving it traffic, which uses up the whole capability of the front evaporator. If it has rear air, then it also has an extra 25 feet of hose to lose gas by osmosis. If it has rear air, the alternator is going to blow up, or the car will cook because it can't run all the fans at full speed. Then the alternator blows up or (carbie models) the fuel system vapour locks and it won't go until tomorrow.

    The fuel consumption is not determined by the aerodynamics, engine management or any technical element - but by the driver's attitude. A 2400 carbie C Matic can do anything from 17 to 40 mpg (got the logbooks & tax claims to prove it) Driven the way the car's dynamics invite, CX eats front ball joints. These press in - the first few times - then you're looking for new front suspension arms.

    Cooling system. It's the only thing in the car done worse than the electrical system - just look at the diagrams in the manual... Early cars have a longer front undershield which blocks the radiator outlet. There is no ram pressure across the radiator (put a manometer on it - 2mm at 80 mph) so the fans have to be working. Everything you want to do under the bonnet bites. Dropping a cabie intake nut down the back of the engine, if the little deflector plate is missing, means a hole in the back of the sump... devcon time, or five minute aeraldite...

    Because Citroen was always broke, details like the press tool design for the doors doesn't quite match the body side parts - so most CXs have hissing door seals. The body isn't mono side, so differences in manufacture mean most have a unique collection of air leaks. Changing seals and dressing up door flanges with hammer and dolly can make a world of difference to the wind noise in a CX



    So while they are beautiful (panel fit accepted) and lovely conveyances, the CX doesn't have quite what it takes to gain the status of other classics. Compared to that other monster of classic motoring, the Alfa Romeo, the CX wins hands down on refinement and comfort, but has an insidious treachery the Alfa can't quite match.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Llewellyn View Post
    Why are CX's not big as a classic car? They HATE you- that's why!

    A CX Citoren has the temperament of a Siamese cat deported to France during the Indo-China wars. The electrical system was evolved by people who didn't really understand what they were doing (I've re-wired a couple - no fuse for the electric windows!) the junior draftsman on the front suspension got the taper angle on the front roll bar ball joints at half what it should be, which is why they're such a b$#@%$d to get out when you want to change a drive shaft (measured it to be sure - put back in with never seize). Then there's the issue of getting used to the steering and brakes. Then getting used to the brakes again when it gets a return leak, gets low on fluid and puts air in the brake circuit - 2 seconds delay between apply pedal and brakes working.

    Every CX you own will do its best to scare you to death at least once. The combination of ventilated front disks and front handbrake means that if you have to push it in traffic, then park on a slope, the handbrake releases itself when the disks cool down and contract. If it's a CMatic with a broken park pawl in the transmission and you don't carry a couple of bricks - expensive crunch. Then there's the steering - as the car gets older it gets more extremist until it won't turn left in a hurry at all. Initially this can be fixed by re-gassing the main accumulator, but we ended up changing the whole steering column assembly after the car repeatedly tried to drive up the gutter and had to be wrenched back onto the road.

    Using CXs as daily drive cars meant rubbing their bellies with spanners to keep them happy every weekend. Admittedly they were doing a thousand k a week hammering up and down the New England Highway with whistler 2000 radar detectors fitted.

    The heating & ventilation... The whole intake stack, fan motor and front section of the heater box is in the engine bay, mired in a mix of road grime, oil and LHM behind the crossmember. The whole thing heats up to 90 degrees C driving it traffic, which uses up the whole capability of the front evaporator. If it has rear air, then it also has an extra 25 feet of hose to lose gas by osmosis. If it has rear air, the alternator is going to blow up, or the car will cook because it can't run all the fans at full speed. Then the alternator blows up or (carbie models) the fuel system vapour locks and it won't go until tomorrow.

    The fuel consumption is not determined by the aerodynamics, engine management or any technical element - but by the driver's attitude. A 2400 carbie C Matic can do anything from 17 to 40 mpg (got the logbooks & tax claims to prove it) Driven the way the car's dynamics invite, CX eats front ball joints. These press in - the first few times - then you're looking for new front suspension arms.

    Cooling system. It's the only thing in the car done worse than the electrical system - just look at the diagrams in the manual... Early cars have a longer front undershield which blocks the radiator outlet. There is no ram pressure across the radiator (put a manometer on it - 2mm at 80 mph) so the fans have to be working. Everything you want to do under the bonnet bites. Dropping a cabie intake nut down the back of the engine, if the little deflector plate is missing, means a hole in the back of the sump... devcon time, or five minute aeraldite...

    Because Citroen was always broke, details like the press tool design for the doors doesn't quite match the body side parts - so most CXs have hissing door seals. The body isn't mono side, so differences in manufacture mean most have a unique collection of air leaks. Changing seals and dressing up door flanges with hammer and dolly can make a world of difference to the wind noise in a CX



    So while they are beautiful (panel fit accepted) and lovely conveyances, the CX doesn't have quite what it takes to gain the status of other classics. Compared to that other monster of classic motoring, the Alfa Romeo, the CX wins hands down on refinement and comfort, but has an insidious treachery the Alfa can't quite match.

    Now say what you really think Bruce!

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    Much experience then Bruce......I adjust my statement...they are a beautiful but difficult French lady....but look at MG's the great british sports car....I have much experience with them being beautiful but hey they can act like an old scrubber....Question : Why Citroen CX's have not gained a place in the classic car scene.-mgb_mki_tartanred_wayne_barrett.jpg

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    The DS was designed by engineers and built by engineers.

    The CX was designed by engineers and built by accountants.

    The DS has a lot of forgivable faults as it exhibits durability in other ways.

    The CX has a lot of unforgivable faults as the car is not durable in the ways a DS is.

    I think if Citroen had not been bought by Peugeot the CX would have been a lot better.

    I think the biggest problem the CX faced was it came after the DS.

    Cheers,

    Mark...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    I think if Citroen had not been bought by Peugeot the CX would have been a lot better.
    Better - or not existing at all?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    ...
    I think the biggest problem the CX faced was it came after the DS.
    ...
    Didn't Setright comment that the DS was most likely bought by those who had been educated and the CX by those who had been trained?

    Edit: I think more a reflection on the change in society over the period rather than a put down of CX owners.
    Last edited by David S; 22nd February 2016 at 12:46 PM.
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    I thought of LJKS the other day, a Zippo advert on the back of a bus had what appeared to be a Black Russian in foreground!
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    I loved the CX (2400 C-matic and 25IE auto). To me they were such beautiful cars. I was younger then and more patient. I even re-upholstered the CX 2400 in synthetic suede, mimicking the double stitching on the seat inserts by doing two single row stiches, as I couldn't get a double needle for my sewing machine with needles that far apart.

    But cars are like women. The really good looking ones are only for looking at, not for bed. The ones that are really good in bed you don't take out in public places. There is a God and He doesn't want a Heaven on earth (otherwise He would get no business).

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    Certainly the CX is totally overshadowed by the DS but I think part of the problem is that CXs are still viewed as 'modern' by most people. They look like 10-15 year old cars. I bought a 85 Series 11 GTI a while ago and a friend came round and saw it on the drive. He asked what it was and I told him it was a 1985 CX. He was taken aback as he thought it was something like a 95 or so. Not being familiar with CXs I told him they came out in 1974 and he was absolutely flabbergasted and I think that's part of the reason they don't register with a lot of motoring enthusiasts. They're not considered in the realm of other 40 year old cars. If you go to a classic car show in a mint CX you're more likely to be directed to the car park then the display area.

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Robins View Post
    Certainly the CX is totally overshadowed by the DS but I think part of the problem is that CXs are still viewed as 'modern' by most people. They look like 10-15 year old cars. I bought a 85 Series 11 GTI a while ago and a friend came round and saw it on the drive. He asked what it was and I told him it was a 1985 CX. He was taken aback as he thought it was something like a 95 or so. Not being familiar with CXs I told him they came out in 1974 and he was absolutely flabbergasted and I think that's part of the reason they don't register with a lot of motoring enthusiasts. They're not considered in the realm of other 40 year old cars. If you go to a classic car show in a mint CX you're more likely to be directed to the car park then the display area.
    That's a good portion of the answer right there. I had experienced similar with my CX, being told that it was "too new" for entry. Never mind that 1) it was the only one the organizers had ever seen, period and 2) although technically too new (the show was for 1980 and back, the CX was an '85), that bodyshell first saw light in Sept 1973.

    I have a theory about the status of the CX, so please bear with me.

    Think about the '32 Ford. We all know how iconic that car is, and what it means to both the Ford and hotrod communities. It really is a beautiful design and with that Ford managed to leapfrog pretty much everyone else. Edsel Ford is rightly recognized for his work.

    That popularity has run on down the line. A '32 either too difficult or expensive to acquire? Go for a '33. Or a '34. A '35. And so on.

    Plug in DS for '32 Ford.

    I think a CX will eventually have the same valuation. I've noticed that the early Series 1 cars are now selling for respectable money if they're in decent shape. You're not going to get top '32 Ford 3-window coupe money for a '53 Ranch Wagon. Just not going to happen. Same thing with a CX- you're just not going to get Decap money for a CX Break. But the overall market has lifted values. And, think about this for a second: it only takes one buyer at a known auction spending freely to send the market into a feeding frenzy.

    It's going to take a while, but I do think the CX will eventually become a well-regarded (money-wise) collectable.
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    The funny thing is, I suspect I'm not alone in finding the over-obsession with certain combinations of make/year offputting. I don't see them as aspirational but almost a liability; if one has an original it needs caring for in a way that reflects its value, its theft risk. So the orphans, antecedents, "descendants" and related models are of far greater interest to me, and always will be.
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    You Blokes are all talking like potential investors aiming to select the best buy for your dollar, and not like lovers!
    By the way I named mine 'Christine'. You remember the movie of that name?
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    Cheers Gerry

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    I'm not talking that way!

    My take is maximum enjoyment, I want to have cars I can take to the shops without having some random person dribble half-baked pseudo-facts or third-hand anecdotes in my ear, a car I can park in a driveway without needing outrageous security provisions, a car which - if it gets (say) a ding from roadkill - does not generate snide gossip in collector circles ("Oh, that one. He hit a wallaby and had to replace the front headlight and repaint the front guard. It's not original now.")...
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    You Blokes are all talking like potential investors aiming to select the best buy for your dollar, and not like lovers!
    By the way I named mine 'Christine'. You remember the movie of that name?
    All I have to do is show some invoices to disprove that. Last 3 months should be enough.

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    Question : Why Citroen CX's have not gained a place in the classic car scene.-cx3.jpg

    Here's the latest $4,500. Unfortunately it doesn't show the new gearbox, new alternator, new battery, new lights and other things that my wife doesn't know about.

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    The tirade of abuse on the poor CX. Maybe I have been lucky but my Prestige has been a marvelous car and a very good family car. The alternator is not an original now, the Bosch that I fitted 10 years ago still going strong. It can easily keep up with full load dual AC. Bruce's comment that the cooling system is below par is just plain wrong. When I had the engine rebuilt recored the radiator as part of normal maintenance and I have never had an issue. Mind you never had any issues before either except if you class replacing water pumps every 100k. I think the DS might have the same issue though.
    Yes they eat through front ball joints but really not that quickly. The electrics and wiring have not been any issue with mine either.

    Then you have design by Robert Opron with interior by Michael Harmand which gives you car that still drives better than any other, so stable aerodynamicly, the Diravi steering so good.
    Of course none of this has any bearing wether a car becomes a classic or not. Exactly what does?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    The tirade of abuse on the poor CX. Maybe I have been lucky but my Prestige has been a marvelous car and a very good family car. The alternator is not an original now, the Bosch that I fitted 10 years ago still going strong. It can easily keep up with full load dual AC. Bruce's comment that the cooling system is below par is just plain wrong. When I had the engine rebuilt recored the radiator as part of normal maintenance and I have never had an issue. Mind you never had any issues before either except if you class replacing water pumps every 100k. I think the DS might have the same issue though.
    Yes they eat through front ball joints but really not that quickly. The electrics and wiring have not been any issue with mine either.

    Then you have design by Robert Opron with interior by Michael Harmand which gives you car that still drives better than any other, so stable aerodynamicly, the Diravi steering so good.
    Of course none of this has any bearing wether a car becomes a classic or not. Exactly what does?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    THe CX cooling system has way more capacity than even a turbo charged CX towing a caravan with the A/C running full bore on a 40degree can overwhelm. You need a good clean radiator though, NOT those crappy low efficient aussie recores. He is VERY right about the fans. When we shredded the alternator belt down in Tassie, and drove half the length of the island with no battery charging..... I unplugged the fans as they were rapidly draining the battery................. 3 minutes at a gentle 100km/h cruise and I was madly scrambling for a spot to pull over and plug them back in. There is ABSOLUTELY NO COOLING EFFECT without working fans, even at 100km/h. I watched the turbo's very accurate, calibrated coolant gauge rapidly climbing and started panicking when it hit 98 degrees and showed no signs of stabilising..... So I madly pulled over and plugged the fans and and watched the temp gauge plummet back to 85 degrees (the fan cycle off temp).

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    i always wondered why there was such a price difference between DS and CX ? The CX is a beautiful car and the last Citroen.
    I sold my DS and bought a pristine CX ....for those who remember the Von Bock CX Metallic blue and beautiful, well it is now mine. Everywhere I've taken it people stop and ask questions ....and yes the common one is they think its from the late 80's but of course its from the fabulous 70's.
    I think Robert Opron was a great designer .......so now I own ( custodian) of two of his masterpieces,
    1973 Immaculate 3lt SM and the beautiful Blue Von Bock 1979 CX CMatic Pallas ( VB 5555)
    Neither car is a daily driver ....once a fortnight they get out for a run.
    Bravo

    cheers
    Colin
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    I thought of LJKS the other day, a Zippo advert on the back of a bus had what appeared to be a Black Russian in foreground!
    Now THAT is an educated comment! Wow.

    Great writer, not without strong views.......
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    Quote Originally Posted by old coot View Post
    i always wondered why there was such a price difference between DS and CX ? The CX is a beautiful car and the last Citroen.
    I sold my DS and bought a pristine CX ....for those who remember the Von Bock CX Metallic blue and beautiful, well it is now mine. Everywhere I've taken it people stop and ask questions ....and yes the common one is they think its from the late 80's but of course its from the fabulous 70's.
    I think Robert Opron was a great designer .......so now I own ( custodian) of two of his masterpieces,
    1973 Immaculate 3lt SM and the beautiful Blue Von Bock 1979 CX CMatic Pallas ( VB 5555)
    Neither car is a daily driver ....once a fortnight they get out for a run.
    Bravo

    cheers
    Colin
    I well remember the Von Bock car. I had a similar light green car. Mine was resprayed first at John Hunter's in Glebe in two pack. Later I saw Von Bock's car there, hull removed from chassis. I think he replaced many panels (all doors?) with new ones. Certainly all door cards. John Hunter was amazed by the money thrown at that car. It was basically rebuilt and bare metal resprayed in two pack Glasurit. That light blue metallic goes so well with the early model CX and its lashings of brightwork.

    The garage that Von Bock kept his car in had carpet on the floor! You have one of the best, if not the best, CX in Australia. Congratulations.

    John

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