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Thread: Ds 21 efi

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Ds 21 efi

    My mate has just got a DS 21 hyd efi. Giving a once over yesterday I noticed that the Bosch Dissy has a vacuum advance unit.Having never seen one before I was rather perplexed.No ref in the 814 Manual.Can anyone offerany enlightenment.
    Woody

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Looking in 586/5, the dizzy does have a vacuum unit. The book is for 1969-70, this may not be true for later cars. I'll have a look-see at what else i can find later.
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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Just as a quick reference I had a look at what is available in 123 ignition. . .

    They show vacuum advance for carburettor but not injection - nothing conclusive but adds nicely to the confusion

    ID & DS

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    Chris
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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Alrighty. Here's what I get:

    Looking at 814-1. Diagrams show with a vacuum advance to 4/71, no advance from 4/71
    648-1 (parts to end of production) shows DX 211-201 A to 10/71. and D5 411 467 H from 10/71.

    And then we get Chris' monkey wrench.
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    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    Vacuum advance would be unique. Where does the vacuum hose go to?
    The Bosch Fuel Injection manual does not show vacuum advance connections. Wired to the ECU an electronic pulse goes to the ECU to tell it the engine speed.

    However, I have found a diagram that shows vacuum (USA).

    Sorry I don't know how to upload these documents.


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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IE23 View Post
    Vacuum advance would be unique. Where does the vacuum hose go to?
    The Bosch Fuel Injection manual does not show vacuum advance connections. Wired to the ECU an electronic pulse goes to the ECU to tell it the engine speed.

    However, I have found a diagram that shows vacuum (USA).

    Sorry I don't know how to upload these documents.
    IzzOK Adrian, I might have it. Do you know which diagram it is? AFIK, there are no existing US market (we didn't get EFI) diagrams but there are a few service sheets.

    For a vacuum tube, wouldn't there be a port somewhere off the intake manifold?

    From what I found (not definitive, even though this is from factory manuals) cars up to 4/71 have the vacuum unit. From that point, they do not. What we need from Woody is the YOM for the car, and the distributor p/n if it's available. That'll give us something to check against the parts and service manuals.

    And don't feel bad about the non post. I can't put PDF's up at all. I can't even figure out how it's done.
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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    That's very strange. You still need vacuum advance with EFI to improve economy at low throttle running. Why would they ever stop installing it


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    Default DS21 distributer without vacuum advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    IzzOK Adrian, I might have it. Do you know which diagram it is? AFIK, there are no existing US market (we didn't get EFI) diagrams but there are a few service sheets.

    For a vacuum tube, wouldn't there be a port somewhere off the intake manifold?

    From what I found (not definitive, even though this is from factory manuals) cars up to 4/71 have the vacuum unit. From that point, they do not. What we need from Woody is the YOM for the car, and the distributor p/n if it's available. That'll give us something to check against the parts and service manuals.

    And don't feel bad about the non post. I can't put PDF's up at all. I can't even figure out how it's done.
    My 8/70 DS21 BVH carby has no vacuum unit. I've had lots of cars but this is the first without one. Of course it is possible it has been changed at some time .

    Don
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    i am working on a 1970 ds21 efi at the moment and it has a vacuum advance dissy but no hose going anywhere

    so it looks like it was factory fitted, confirming what brian has found,

    and can anyone tell me where it draws vacuum from ?

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    Thanks everyone,I have finally found a pic in 814 manual (Pink pages) but no data plus it dosn,t have a pipe.Will post part no later today.

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    I have a similar car myself (1970) without vac advance The Bosch part no is 01231-163-005
    Woody

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    My 1971 DS21 EFI BVH has also got a vacuum advance capsule on the side of the dizzy, not hooked up and no obvious vacuum source for it. I don't think they were ever hooked up.
    Regards,

    George
    Leicestershire, England
    1971 DS21 EFI, Pallas, BVH, Blog:http://www.mypallas.net

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    I was running a D Special 2175cc with a Paris Rhone dizzy from a late Pug 504 with vac, planed head and Ivan Tighe cam - car currently being restored again. Fuel economy was fine 28 -32 mpg the way I drove, which included towing.

  14. #14
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    That's very strange. You still need vacuum advance with EFI to improve economy at low throttle running. Why would they ever stop installing it
    They might have been thinking along the lines that the triggering mech didn't care about low-speed running, it was measured by way of air volume.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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