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  1. #1
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    How interchangeable are parts from a "72 DS sedan & a "74 DS Safari . I know it's a very broad question. Body wise I guess very little, but mechanically?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halfbrick View Post
    How interchangeable are parts from a "72 DS sedan & a "74 DS Safari . I know it's a very broad question. Body wise I guess very little, but mechanically?
    Apart from the obvious, body wise most everything from the rear doors forward (sedan and Safari rear door glass differs).
    Mechanically they are very similar - different rear brakes being the standout difference.

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Apart from the obvious, body wise most everything from the rear doors forward (sedan and Safari rear door glass differs).
    Mechanically they are very similar - different rear brakes being the standout difference.

    Cheers
    Chris
    And the greater operating pressures of the safari rear spheres. safari rear spheres give a saloon a dreamy floaty ride. The rear suspension bump stops on the wagon are beefier too. The gauge of the metal used in the framework side boxes was greater too, and that can't be a bad thing....how well do you know the safari ? They seem to be more rot prone, especially around the rear side windows and inner panels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund View Post
    And the greater operating pressures of the safari rear spheres. safari rear spheres give a saloon a dreamy floaty ride. The rear suspension bump stops on the wagon are beefier too. The gauge of the metal used in the framework side boxes was greater too, and that can't be a bad thing....how well do you know the safari ? They seem to be more rot prone, especially around the rear side windows and inner panels.
    Not sure of the relevance but I've owned 1st. 2nd. and 3rd. nose Safaris. . . yes they do have an exceptional ride and superb load carrying.

    I understand the OP to be asking what can be transfered from Sedan to Safari or vice versa.

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    The rear suspension boots and cylinders are different diameter on the Safari. I was told they were tested a 3 tonnes each many years ago. Also the rear brake drums are finned. And 2 jacking points per side rather than one.

    Cheers

    Marc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halfbrick View Post
    How interchangeable are parts from a "72 DS sedan & a "74 DS Safari . I know it's a very broad question. Body wise I guess very little, but mechanically?
    Basically everything from the "B" post forward is the same. Chris noted the 4 doors are the same, but rear glass is not. Another detail difference, besides the rear suspension and brakes, is the rear harness: hooks up the same, but definitely not the same harness as a sedan. I believe the gas tank is the same (different between carburettor and injection). And yes, the frame rails on a Safari are heavier- that was supposedly why Chapron used them for the Decap.

    You building a Safari?
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    I understand the OP to be asking what can be transfered from Sedan to Safari or vice versa.

    Yes Chris, correct. Did the other mechanicals change with different engine sizes, 2100/2300? or were they pretty much the same? As a project car the challenge appears a bit scary to me but if the base is straight & rust free then I'm very tempted. Then there's the D's my son found out bush ( 1/2 hr away ) that I haven't checked out yet. Who was it that contacted me about them? It was before Christmas & I've been away for 4 weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halfbrick View Post
    I understand the OP to be asking what can be transfered from Sedan to Safari or vice versa.

    Yes Chris, correct. Did the other mechanicals change with different engine sizes, 2100/2300? or were they pretty much the same? As a project car the challenge appears a bit scary to me but if the base is straight & rust free then I'm very tempted. Then there's the D's my son found out bush ( 1/2 hr away ) that I haven't checked out yet. Who was it that contacted me about them? It was before Christmas & I've been away for 4 weeks.
    If they are both carby cars you should be able to swap mechanicals from one to the other with the few exceptions noted.

    Lovely cars to work on, very accessible once you pull them down. Not to be feared, if you have the opportunity to build one from two I'd encourage you, plenty of knowledge here if you feel you are in too deep. . .

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    I went to look at the D's yesterday, access not too good but took some photos ( can't believe I didn't get more of the safari. It has had the panels removed & painted then roughly put back on. I'm assured that all is there in one form or another & it seems solid, no visible major rust. The black one is proposed as a parts car. Seems like a deal has been struck ( if anyone would care to PM me with suggestions of value I'd appreciate it ) They have to be gone by the weekend at the latest, after I left they pushed the safari outside in preparation & a truck put in it's place so it sits outside regardless of the weather. I think I'll scoot up this morning & put a tarp over it. Got permission from SWMBO last night so that parts good but getting it home & in the shed is the problem. I have a very steep driveway down to my shed so that's 1 headache, also I gather they won't go onto a normal car trailer ( clearance ) but do they fit width wise? car is 1800 mm at widest point & I don't think a car trailer is any wider than that so as it doesn't pump up is my only option a flatbead? If so who would do it bearing in mind if the cost is too great they may not be worth getting. ( width wise I could probably take the front guards off the safari so that might work?. Any suggestions/ help would be greatly appreciated, cheers Dave
    Just a duckin' & a weavin'

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    Car trailers are OK, you just need to position it so the ramps are level with the deck.... that is... find a hump or step like a nature strip/gutter that you can back the trailer to so the run on is pretty level or down a bit.

    Otherwise there is Shane's trick of tilting the unhitched trailer, until the ramps are in line with the deck. You can lash the drawbar to the back of a ute, until the car is balancing on the trailer enough to manhandle the trailer back to level, then pull the car forward the last bit.

    Choose a car trailer without a front fence on the deck, as the Dee nose sits very low.
    Hire car trailers are long and wide enough, you can't open the doors when its on, leave a window down.

    Restrain the car with chains or straps over the lower front arms, and the rear tie down loops.
    Don't pull it down too tightly, just a bit of pressure on the bump stops.

    I built a trailer specially for carrying Dees.... with a tilt deck and tie down chains & lugs at the right places.
    I'm a bit far away though.
    Bob
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    Donor looks sound in those photos. You might have two restorers there; make haste slowly.

    For transport I have done the "broomstick segments in the suspension cylinders" trick, I think the dowels needed shaving down a little from the diameter I'd been given prior to my adventure. It worked and simplified loading/unloading.

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    The sedan looks to be a late, maybe 1974, 23 5 Speed Pallas, whereas the Safari appears to be about 1968 going by the dash and is likely a 19B 4 speeder. DS23 manuals did not come as a 4 speeder and the gearbox you picture appears to be a 4 speed unit and I presume from the Safari. So, there are many differences and you would not naturally choose one as spares for the other. You have two fairly different cars there, so it would be better treat them as separate projects and deal with each separately.

    p.s. Just to add a furrther difference between the two cars. If the bootlid on the sedan is original to the car, then it is likely EFI as there were two badges on the bootlid and it is definitely not an auto.
    Last edited by David S; 3rd February 2016 at 11:32 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halfbrick View Post
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    Bit hard to tell but, is the Safari a '72? Does it have flush door handles on the outside (rectangular holes in the door panels) the dash looks earlier and would have the push button handles. No biggy if the doors are usable but they can not be swapped with the '74 DS you have without modification to the door C and B pillars on the chassis.

    Looks like you have a good starting point with the Safari. . .

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    The sedan looks to be a late, maybe 1974, 23 5 Speed Pallas, whereas the Safari appears to be about 1968 going by the dash and is likely a 19B 4 speeder. DS23 manuals did not come as a 4 speeder and the gearbox you picture appears to be a 4 speed unit and I presume from the Safari. So, there are many differences and you would not naturally choose one as spares for the other. You have two fairly different cars there, so it would be better treat them as separate projects and deal with each separately.

    p.s. Just to add a furrther difference between the two cars. If the bootlid on the sedan is original to the car, then it is likely EFI as there were two badges on the bootlid and it is definitely not an auto.
    You must have beaten me by seconds David. . .

    Yes things have changed substantially from the original question comparing a '72 to a '74

    Without an underbonnet shot of the DS23 it's hard to know but as David alludes it could be an injected car, likely 5 speed. A fair bit more challenging to fit to the Safari unless you can convert to carby. It looks to be a worthwhile project depending on how badly it has rusted. . .

    More pics needed. . .

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  16. #16
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    Comparing a 1968/69 Safari with a 1974 23 5 speed EFI (assuming both cars have original configuration - not always so), we'd have the following substantial differences:
    * Block: A 23 block is different to a 19/21 block. EFI cars also seemed to miss out on the final machining for the manual fuel pump.
    * Head: It depends what the Safari was fitted with. Some 19B's may have an internal inlet manifold head, but, being a Safari, it's probably much the same as the Special/21/23 heads.
    * Flywheel / clutch: Anything before about 1971 would use the recessed flywheel and three toggle clutch, whereas a car like the 23 will have the later finger / diaphragm clutch and flat flywheel.
    * Gearbox: The 23 will be a 5 speed and the Safari is clearly a 4 speeder. You could fit the 5 speed into the Safari, but the front body crossmember would be different in the 23 and will be welded in, whereas the earlier car probably has this as a bolt in panel.
    * Brakes: Rear brakes are finned on the Safari. The Safari should have the front brake accumulator as per a DS.
    * Cooling system: Safari might not have the crossflow radiator and header tank of the 23.
    * Fuel system: An EFI car obviously has a different inlet manifold to a carby car. The Safari probably has a Weber carby and the manifold would likely bolt on to the 23 head. The distributor is specific to the EFI system with a (Sounding like an anorak ... but knowing this only because a friend has a 23 EFI converted to a carb!) different curve to the carby 23, but would work with a carby system. The accelerator linkage is different, the fuel tank is designed for a looped return flow in the EFI and the pump is electric. To use an EFI block with a carby, if it does not have the machining to accept a mechanical pump, you either need to modify the block or fit an electric fuel pump.
    * Body: Door locks and handles are different, with pillars different to suit. Not interchangeable.
    Last edited by David S; 3rd February 2016 at 12:55 PM.
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    More photos, planning on picking up FridayDS's-img_1299.jpgDS's-img_1307.jpgDS's-img_1320.jpgDS's-img_1321.jpgDS's-img_1329.jpgDS's-img_1330.jpgDS's-img_1331.jpgDS's-img_1332.jpgDS's-img_1322.jpgDS's-img_1323.jpgDS's-img_1324.jpgDS's-img_1325.jpgDS's-img_1326.jpgDS's-img_1327.jpgDS's-img_1328.jpgDS's-img_1308.jpgDS's-img_1309.jpgDS's-img_1310.jpgDS's-img_1311.jpgDS's-img_1312.jpgDS's-img_1313.jpgDS's-img_1314.jpgDS's-img_1316.jpgDS's-img_1317.jpgDS's-img_1318.jpgDS's-img_1319.jpgDS's-img_1298.jpgClick image for larger version. 

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    Just a duckin' & a weavin'

  18. #18
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Looks like the Safari is reasonably solid, strange rear wheel, that is an extra large centre hole. . .



    I spy a Jaeger clock in the DS, possibly has a temp gauge too

    Concentrate on getting the Safari on the road as a workhorse - assess the DS, it could be put back on the road too or used to fund the Safari. . . lots of desirable parts if the chassis is too far gone.

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  19. #19
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    One of them is an injected 5spd. You can see the throttle body and gearbox extension. They both look like they has spent a LOT of time sitting in a paddock. I'd suggest pulling them down and picking whichever one has the least rust to fix (they will both have rust, they all do ).

    Hey bob ..... You haven't seen the dodgy trailer I used these days ??



    dodgy or what!

    seeya,
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    If you're not going to do anything with the orange upholstery in the Brun Scarobe Pallas I'm VERY interested in it for pieces to repair a front seat in mine of similar spec. My upholstery is very good except for driver's seat backrest outside piece which had a tear. My clever wife repaired it in situ, but an undamaged piece would make be a far better option. Thanks!

  21. #21
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    Well, The cars are home & what a hassle that was. They were 1 hr drive away but in all it took us 12 hrs to get both cars relocated. Partly due to being non runners with some flat tyres, tight access where they were stored, & lots to do with the steep block & very limited space to manoeuvre. Please remind me to NEVER,EVER attempt to move another D like this. But, the safari does look good initially & my wife likes it, the sedan though gets a negative on both counts but will most likely be stripped for parts & the rest dumped. time will tell, cheers Dave
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    Well done. With flat tyres, the ground clearance is minimal. It's not so easy even with inflated tyres.
    Unless you are going to transplant the entire 23 engine and 5 speed gearbox into the Safari, you might be better off onselling the sedan and finding a parts donor that's closer to the Safari. Once you have sorted out all of the parts loose inside both cars, you may not be missing very much in any case. If it's in genuinely good order, the 5-speed gearbox alone might put a floor in the value of the sedan, even as a terribly rusty parts car, at roughly the $1,500 mark. As an unknown quantity, maybe a bit less, but you would have trouble prising a good bare 5-speed gearbox away from most enthusiasts for much less. The sum of the individual components would be more if you have the time. Being an EFI car, if it has sat a long time, be very careful of leaking fuel hoses if you decide to try and get it running.
    Last edited by David S; 6th February 2016 at 11:46 AM.

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Looks like the bones of a Chapron replica, if you mash up the two...

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Looks like the Safari is reasonably solid, strange rear wheel, that is an extra large centre hole. . .


    Cheers
    Chris
    The wheel hole is so it will fit on a modern tyre balancing machine.

    I have machined quite a few like this (about 50mm hole) by mounting the stripped wheel in my lathe and cutting out the centre.

    It really needs to be done on a lathe so you can be sure to get it perfectly centered.

    It is possible to do it with very careful measurement, or a jig fixture that picks up the 5 stud holes, either way you need 0.1mm accuracy to get a reasonable balance.
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    Today I managed to pull everything out of the safari take lots of photos, all in all I was really surprised that everything seems pretty good, yeah the fronts seats are stuffed but I'd use them with some good covers if the only other option was a wooden box. At first ( this was the first time I got the bonnet up ) when I found the manifold on the floor I was a bit worried but it seems they were removed to get the starter out so I think that is stuffed along with the water pump as it's also removed. Who knows what the engine is like!!! Is that huge roll of material for the seats & roof lining & the other 2 rolls to go under it? or are unrelated to the car & just happen to be in itDS's-img_1333.jpgDS's-img_1343.jpgDS's-img_1353.jpgDS's-img_1365.jpgDS's-img_1366.jpgDS's-img_1367.jpgDS's-img_1359.jpgDS's-img_1354.jpgDS's-img_1355.jpgDS's-img_1356.jpgDS's-img_1357.jpgDS's-img_1358.jpgDS's-img_1360.jpgDS's-img_1361.jpgDS's-img_1362.jpgDS's-img_1363.jpgDS's-img_1364.jpgDS's-img_1345.jpgDS's-img_1346.jpgDS's-img_1347.jpgDS's-img_1348.jpgDS's-img_1349.jpgDS's-img_1350.jpgDS's-img_1351.jpgDS's-img_1352.jpgDS's-img_1334.jpgDS's-img_1335.jpgDS's-img_1336.jpgDS's-img_1337.jpgDS's-img_1338.jpgDS's-img_1339.jpgDS's-img_1340.jpgDS's-img_1341.jpgDS's-img_1342.jpg
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