CX engine swap (blown head gasket etc...)
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Thread: CX engine swap (blown head gasket etc...)

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Default CX engine swap (blown head gasket etc...)

    The head gasket has been suspect really since owning this CX (about 5 years) but I wasn't convinced as there were so many other reasons for why the engine was overheating and I've been getting through all those tasks. Also I did a compression test a few months ago and got I think 130 psi (Is that normal??) across all cylinders, plus the condition of the oil was always good but it did seem to leak a little coolant somewhere......

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    Anyway I checked the oil yesterday and got this:

    Oil dipstick latte

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Then looked under the oil filler cap and got this........think I need a coffee now.

    Oil filler cap latte

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    And the obvious stuff like empty header tank, exhaust smelling oil/coolant.....actually the oil was smelling like petrol so not sure if that's exhaust or another problem??

    Empty header tank

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    Doesn't look too good. If all cylinders read about the same, then the failure will be the water leaking into the oil gallery somewhere rather than into either a cylinder or an oilway. Which engine? It's not a difficult job to change the head gasket on a 2200/2400, certainly easier than changing the motor. If you think the engine is a bit suspect anyway, then you have little to lose by adding a water jacket sealant like Bars to the coolant and changing the oil a couple of times. It's easily misused, but it may fix your problem very effectively.

    Edit: If the carby floods a lot, you might get an accumulation of fuel in the oil.
    shanadoo and David M like this.

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    I have a good 2400 (carby) engine here so will be putting that in to replace the 2000 engine. I did want to keep as much originality as possible but at this stage it isn't really worthwhile to do what has to be done to the original engine (much more than the head). The additional pulling power of a larger engine is a bonus however not as economical as the 2 litre engine.

    So last night when there was assistance available I removed the bonnet. So far this morning I've loosened the driveshaft nuts, removed the grill, headlights, battery and radiator.

    With the lower hose removed the radiator and fans come out together like this:

    CX radiator removal 1

    CX radiator removal 2

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Doesn't look too good. If all cylinders read about the same, then the failure will be the water leaking into the oil gallery somewhere rather than into either a cylinder or an oilway. Which engine? It's not a difficult job to change the head gasket on a 2200/2400, certainly easier than changing the motor. If you think the engine is a bit suspect anyway, then you have little to lose by adding a water jacket sealant like Bars to the coolant and changing the oil a couple of times. It's easily misused, but it may fix your problem very effectively.

    Edit: If the carby floods a lot, you might get an accumulation of fuel in the oil.
    Hi David,

    You are right it would be more ideal to get the head done and somewhat less work however there are other problems with that engine such as worn valvegear, leaking seals...not serious perhaps but I know the 2400 engine is strong with better compression and is much quieter. If I use the larger engine I can then explore the problems with the original engine at a later time (unlikely but you never know) so long as it doesn't seize up with watery oil in there.......I will need to find a way to preserve it from that.

    I tried the bars stop leak in the cooling system and it caused the heater matrix to clog and blew a junction so I won't use that again.....but this is more serious as I checked the oil last week and it was good and a few days later and driving less than 50k's it's like this so maybe more serious than a simple change of oil and stop leak??

    I've set my mind on using the other engine so it could be hard to convince me otherwise unless that engine is seized after a few months sitting I would then get the original engine fixed up. I also will take the opportunity to renew the gearbox and clutch, change driveshaft boots, check and fix any hydraulic leaks, etc....

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    4th gear is very noisy (a high pitched whine) so I have yet to explore what I would have to do to replace gears. Easier to replace with another 4-speed gearbox?? I don't have one but know of one available for $$$. Anyone have a spare who lives reasonably close to Northern NSW/ Brisbane?

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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    I have a 5 speed box you can have, but it is in Sydney.
    Mine

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    Toyota Prius

    In the family

    Xantia SX

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    Yes water under pressure leaking into a non oil pressurized area like the sump. Years ago we used Repco Irontite which doesn't clog the radiator to good advantage on the Roots TS3 engines at liner overhaul time. My god I'm going back how many years now?. Still a good product. Tony.
    Berridale and addo like this.

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    I have a 5 speed box you can have, but it is in Sydney.
    Thanks Greg, that's really kind of you. A 5-speed would be just the thing but it is a bit of a drive down to yours and won't pass for carry-on luggage.....I know you have one anyway so that is good to remember.

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Looks like I'm unstoppable....engine must come out either way if I use it or not to address all the other problems I've been putting off.

    Before removal of air intake

    The whole air intake and carburettor came out in one piece in about 5 minutes!

    Air intake and carburettor

    At this rate I'll have the engine out by lunch
    Last edited by Andy N; 4th January 2016 at 03:15 PM.

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    e-go would probably move a pallet with a gearbox strapped on fairly reasonably. Depot collection can save 25%.

    Are the driveshafts the same on 4 and 5-speeders? There's also the wide v narrow track issue.

    Andy, you might check the ratios of a 2 litre 4 speed are the same as for a gearbox intended for a 2400. The carb is probably jetted differently too.
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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanadoo View Post
    Yes water under pressure leaking into a non oil pressurized area like the sump. Years ago we used Repco Irontite which doesn't clog the radiator to good advantage on the Roots TS3 engines at liner overhaul time. My god I'm going back how many years now?. Still a good product. Tony.
    That sounds better than the granulated cleaner I used Tony......I expected it to dissolve but I was flushing out that gunk for weeks afterwards. The heater matrix acted like a filter and clogged immediately.....I should've known better but I guess real experience comes with several taps on the shoulder like that.

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    e-go would probably move a pallet with a gearbox strapped on fairly reasonably. Depot collection can save 25%.

    Are the driveshafts the same on 4 and 5-speeders? There's also the wide v narrow track issue.

    Andy, you might check the ratios of a 2 litre 4 speed are the same as for a gearbox intended for a 2400. The carb is probably jetted differently too.
    Yes I suppose it wouldn't cost too much to have the gearbox freighted up especially as Greg has been so kind to offer it for free. It would be good to know if I need different driveshafts so if anyone can shed light on this it would be a big help.

    I was told the clutch in the 2000 engine is smaller than the 2200 which is another reason for me to go to a 2200 4-speed box......I have 2 c-matic boxes here but not too keen to use them due to much extra work and fuel use penalty....but the ratios in a 5-speed would presumably be right for the 2400 unless it's set up for a 2500 engine and that is different also??

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Oil collected....fairly well emulsified.....and a bit low at about 3.5L......should be 4.6L....so rings probably a bit worn as it doesn't leak that much....possibly longer than a week ago that I checked oil

    Draining oil

    Drained oil latte

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    LH driveshaft removed. CX's don't need a balljoint splitter but I used one today as I forgot what I usually do is remove the two 13mm bolts and uncup the lower balljoint by tapping the arm down (easier done by removing the steering linkage to the hub.

    The triax (inner) boot was split (another job I've been desperate to do and finally I have a pair of genuine triax boots). In a way this was good because I could just pull the shaft without the hassle of breaking the circlip that holds the triax housing in place which can be quite tricky to put it mildly.

    LH driveshaft split boot

    Split boot LH driveshaft removal

    The grease is actually in really good condition, I'd thought it would've flung out by now but it's packed in really well.

    LH driveshaft
    Last edited by Andy N; 3rd January 2016 at 02:00 PM.

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Note if you the inner boot isn't split and you want to keep it intact you can't just wreck it like I did

    Now to do the RH side driveshaft. It's a different setup on that side as the differential isn't central so there's an extra intermediate shaft. Two dog-eared (not sure of correct name) bolts to hold in the intermediate bearing and I hope to take the whole thing out.....no need to wreck the triax boot this time even though I will be replacing all four boots with new.

  18. #18
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    I have a 5 speed box you can have, but it is in Sydney.
    He would also need a diravi splitter, shorter selectors and narrow track 5spd driveshafts (very much hens teeth) and the 5spd gearbox mount.

    The driveshaft inner joint should be easy to remove one you have the lot out. Just give it a whack with a heavy hammer (that will pop the snap ring for you). That way you can re-assemble the shaft while it's off the car.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    He would also need a diravi splitter, shorter selectors and narrow track 5spd driveshafts (very much hens teeth) and the 5spd gearbox mount.

    The driveshaft inner joint should be easy to remove one you have the lot out. Just give it a whack with a heavy hammer (that will pop the snap ring for you). That way you can re-assemble the shaft while it's off the car.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Thanks for the info Shane. I can get all the above easily however maybe the driveshafts are a hassle. Do you know in which way exactly they differ between 4-speed and 5-speed narrow track shafts and are both sides different?

    That's what I thought with the LH triax, it would be easier to deal with when the engine is out. Having difficulties securing the car high at the front right now to get to the RH driveshaft bolts. The car is sitting on sloping dirt under a carport. If it was running I would've driven it to a friend's who has a level concrete carport......I'm not keen on working in the dirt...it gets everywhere and moving the trolley jack isn't easy.....anyway I will work with what I have and make it secure so I can crawl underneath without getting crushed.
    Last edited by Andy N; 3rd January 2016 at 08:08 PM. Reason: Unecessary dig

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Different driveshafts for 4 speed and 5 speed gearboxes. I have a pile of driveshafts but I am doubtful I have 5 speed/narrow track. In will have a look tomorrow to see.
    Mine

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    RH driveshaft out. Took a while to secure car on blocks and I messed around with trying to get the anti-roll bar droplink apart top or bottom. In the end I loosened the anti-roll bar block mount and tilted it just enough to pass the driveshaft through. I would do this again as it saves the hassle of breaking tapered joints. Pissing down rain here and getting dark so I'll call it a day.

    Loosened anti-roll bar mount

    RH driveshaft

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Sorry if I was so dismissive of the radiator stop leak idea but I didn't explain very well. I forgot to mention that there was so much water in the cylinders the last few days the engine wouldn't start too easily. I thought the engine was seized and a friend described it as a hydraulic lock as the engine tries to compress water instead of air. Plus massive amount of water coming out of exhaust this morning I didn't mention so I'm taking a chance that the head gasket is knackered.

  23. #23
    UFO
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    I see the car has the standard layers of dirt and oil applied as a rust preventative/maintenance access inhibitor. You can often spend more time cleaning than you do doing the actual job.
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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    I see the car has the standard layers of dirt and oil applied as a rust preventative/maintenance access inhibitor. You can often spend more time cleaning than you do doing the actual job.
    Yay finally a chance to give everything a good clean. I can't recall how much dirt and gunk I've scraped off CXs over the years but they are like earthmoving equipment just how much gunk they scoop up. Oil leaks and dirt roads don't help at all

  25. #25
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    If you were struggling with the driveshaft nuts, what you can do is stick a BIG screwdriver into the ventilated discs to lock them against the caliper, that way you can apply massive force to the driveshaft nuts without simply spinning the hubs
    Andy N likes this.
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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