GS 1977 pallas for sale gumtree.... anyone know its history?
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Thread: GS 1977 pallas for sale gumtree.... anyone know its history?

  1. #1
    ccc
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    Default GS 1977 pallas for sale gumtree.... anyone know its history?

    Hi
    Its White and for sale on the gold coast.
    http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/miami...977/1098495578
    Anyone recognise it?
    I havent visited it yet but am advised it has an old citroen CClub sticker..
    Have been interested by this guy with a gs in the states.
    Fuel Injection Conversion
    should i get it?
    cheers

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    Last edited by ccc; 2nd January 2016 at 01:41 AM.

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    Fellow Frogger! deesse's Avatar
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    yes do it

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    Fellow Frogger! Trading Estate's Avatar
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    More like $200 I would have thought.
    '04 Megane
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    That could be a really nice car .... Go Look!!! When was the last time *anyone* saw a GS on the roads

    Dents can be easily fixed, that car looks to have no rust in the bottoms of the doors, no rust around the rear windows or gutting ..... It might be a very good car. Go Look .... Let us all know

    Fuel injection ... yes, definitely ... for sure. The cold running was about the only thing I hated about driving a GS. Everything else about it is nothing short of brilliant !

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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
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    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Only history I know is that it looks like the one sold 17/11/2015 unregistered on eBay item # 231748272356 at Loganlea for $381.
    Given the rust in the doors you'd want to check the structural areas closely - if you don't know where that means please ask.
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    When was the last time *anyone* saw a GS on the roads
    I see mine everyday as it's a daily driver.

    Never see any CXs on the road though... Or Ds for that matter. Only very occasionally sporting their club plates or in workshops sucking $$$$$ like there's no tomorrow

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    I drive past it every couple of days. It's been outside for a while but doesn't look toooooo bad. I can take a closer look if you'd like? Just shoot me a PM

    Andrew

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    ccc
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    Hi Bruce
    If owner is agreeable will go down 1st Jan..
    Any tips on rust locations & other point/locations to check?
    cheers

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Some are easier to see than others - I've only seen the eBay pics not the car but the rust in the boot lid and doors would lead me to check everywhere closely.
    Easiest place to start is the roof sides by the gutters all along, which looked okay in the pics but check particularly at the top of the front roof pillars (they'll also rust if bottom drain areas are blocked at the lower corners of the screen).

    Check sides on the boot area, lifting the side carpet if needed usually forward of the point where the subframe bolts through (the bootlid looked bad in the pics - they are foam filled at the top and usually go there first, but the photos suggested the side seams were gone - can be hard to source a good one these days). The bootlid might just be indicative of a poor accident repair if the rest of the car isn't very rusty, but if that's the case I'd check for rust where the rear bumper corners bolt on inside the boot. Rear (and front) guards sometimes rust against the rubber seal between the inner and outer guards - trace the semi-circle on the outer guard and look for bubbles. Outer guard damage can be indicative of similar inner guard damage. Outer front guards are usually pretty easy to source, the inner front guards are welded on after 1974 or 1975? so a bit more difficult to fix. Rear guards also rust under the quarter window rubbers, there is a small drain hole under the rubber at the rear corner that often seems to clog but I've also seen c pillars rusted through against the window rubber.

    Under the bonnet, check the front seam on the bonnet (like boot-lids, can be hard to source a better one), then feel under the edge of the box section behind the bumper where it can be reached. As under trays are susceptible to knocks good ones are rare. Then look at the very back corners of the engine bay behind the hinges, as well as the battery tray. Rust here on the lhs is probably going to mean the floor inner and outer skins could both be rusty as the water has continued down - look under the car about where the pressings start, and lift the front carpets on both sides. Inner skins can be rusted out without obvious signs under the car. Rust here could also mean the firewall is rusted behind the dashboard. The sills often show rust where the front rubber door seals have their join at the lower front, by the time a sill shows rust on the outer skin the triple and quadruple inner skins have in my limited experience usually already rusted through (the black sill paint makes rust on the outer skin easy to hide). In Europe they say the box sections under the rear seat also rust out, but I've yet to see one do so in Aus.
    Check for stress cracks in the front subframe.
    In my biased opinion, GSs are brilliant - the biggest short-coming being that they're under - engined for the engineering evident in the rest of the car, so an injection system should address this problem.
    Last edited by Bruce H; 31st December 2015 at 06:37 PM. Reason: Extras
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    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

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    Fellow Frogger! fnqvmuch's Avatar
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    can Bruce's post above somehow be made sticky, please?
    ps. that injection system - as described - has a far from inspiring effect on me
    ( surely an easier way ... ) but I had recently wanted to find the guy's page, so thanks for the link

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    ccc
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    thanks Bruce, will call the owner tomorrow.
    cheers

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    ccc
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    Hi Andrew
    Thanks for the offer of a look, will probably be down there tomorrow.
    cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by graham66 View Post
    I see mine everyday as it's a daily driver.

    Never see any CXs on the road though... Or Ds for that matter. Only very occasionally sporting their club plates or in workshops sucking $$$$$ like there's no tomorrow

    That's a vile slander

    My DS is a daily driver. Not pretty , but very effective.

    Not alone either

    Andrew

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    Now very rare. If you can store and rescue - grab it, especially at that price. Chris
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    To the OP (CCC) if you go ahead with the GS (the pics look good in the ad) and proceed with the Fuel injection, I wonder if a group buy or project on the EFI is possible? Guess we'd use parts easy to find in Oz. Our GS has a weber carb. But you can't go pass fuel injection!

    Cheers
    John

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    ccc
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    Default pics of the gs 1977 white pallas

    Well, the car was on a trailer and the suspension had lowered so i was unable to get underneath and could only poke my head into the cab as the sides of the trailer restricted the door opening. Wasnt able to check most of Bruce's recommended spots.. There is rust in the obvious spots.But its not unrecoverable: Blisters starting in the front and rear corners of the exterior door panels. The boot lid is worst but it still opens and closes. Inside the boot was dry, no boot floor mat, no rust on floor didnt check inside the sides of the boot. The most serious obvious rust was at the top of the drivers A pillar. See pic. The battery tray edges looked ok but was unable to remove the black plastic battery mat to check underneath. The bonnet has no rust, including seams. Have taken more photos than whats posted.
    The engine was grimey but complete. No rust in panel seams visible in the engine bay, altho it was a quick look.
    The interior fabrics are showing their age. There is some old water staining on the fabric on the c pilars... rust implications? The rear passenger area looks ok for fabric and door cards. The drivers seat fabric needs replacing and both front door cards fabric are past saving? Roof lining stained but still in position.
    Couldnt get a good look at the drivers instruments. Altho its the model with all round dials,no fish eye speedo. Look great.
    The exterior paint was good. Not strongly oxidised.
    The car has an appearance of being garaged for the majority of its time and is now showing the effects of being outside for a few years. The engine has a misfire. Am thinking of buying if only to put on driveway!under a cover. As a, long term tinker/conservation. If someone has experience on working on/conserving/repairing rust and mech of a GS, suggestions/advice welcome.
    cheers
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails GS 1977 pallas for sale gumtree.... anyone know its history?-battery-tray.jpg   GS 1977 pallas for sale gumtree.... anyone know its history?-bonnet-seam.jpg   GS 1977 pallas for sale gumtree.... anyone know its history?-door-rust.jpg   GS 1977 pallas for sale gumtree.... anyone know its history?-boot.jpg   GS 1977 pallas for sale gumtree.... anyone know its history?-inside-boot-lid.jpg   GS 1977 pallas for sale gumtree.... anyone know its history?-passenger-door-card.jpg  

    GS 1977 pallas for sale gumtree.... anyone know its history?-inside-door-rust.jpg   GS 1977 pallas for sale gumtree.... anyone know its history?-fire-wall.jpg   GS 1977 pallas for sale gumtree.... anyone know its history?-rear-door-card.jpg   GS 1977 pallas for sale gumtree.... anyone know its history?-passenger-2.jpg   GS 1977 pallas for sale gumtree.... anyone know its history?-top-pillar.jpg   GS 1977 pallas for sale gumtree.... anyone know its history?-ear-c-pillar-2.jpg  

    GS 1977 pallas for sale gumtree.... anyone know its history?-car-front.jpg   GS 1977 pallas for sale gumtree.... anyone know its history?-drivers-hlight.jpg  
    Last edited by ccc; 2nd January 2016 at 01:57 AM.

  17. #17
    ccc
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    Hi John
    early days yet re efi. The gs facebook pic posts of your gs are at the excellant end of the scale for car condition.
    The white Pallas is a large conservation project and is at the other end of the scale...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccc View Post
    Am thinking of buying if only to put on driveway!under a cover. As a, long term tinker/conservation.
    It's admirable to want to go down that route, and understandable to a degree.. But I would strongly recommend, if you buy it that is, getting the car on the road asap and using it as your daily. That way you are fully committed to a living, breathing, work in progress and every minor fix you do along the way, while you're using it, will make a huge difference to the ride, comfort and pleasurability of ownership. A good GS is a wonderful thing.

    If it sits too long without progress, and is not being driven and enjoyed, the motivation to stick with it is hard to maintain.
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  19. #19
    IWS
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccc View Post
    Hi
    Its White and for sale on the gold coast.
    Citroen gs Pallas 1977 | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Gold Coast South - Miami | 1098495578
    Anyone recognise it?
    I havent visited it yet but am advised it has an old citroen CClub sticker..
    Have been interested by this guy with a gs in the states.
    Fuel Injection Conversion
    should i get it?
    cheers
    For what it is worth, my opinion is that you should rescue it. (Maybe bargain the price down a bit?) It seems like you are looking for a tinkering project - this could well be it! Go on - buy it, have fun.

    And BTW - the link to the website of the chap in the states who tinkers with (mostly Italian) cars is a delight!

    Ian.
    Last edited by IWS; 2nd January 2016 at 11:19 AM. Reason: typo

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    I'm with Graham on the use approach. I've sadly put my GS on club plates, which in Qld is a system which considerably limits use, and it has definitely reduced my commitment to my car compared to the decades when I drove it more regularly.

    Had this car actually been re-registered by the current owner, as the relatively new number plates in their ad suggest (ie could they show you a recent safety certificate)? If so, one would imagine getting it back on the road shouldn't be too hard, and if you join a club you could at least put it on the cheaper club rego to get a taste of GS motoring. The longer a car sits, the more there is to re-instate, a case in point being a few years ago a friend lost their just-re-registered white GS Pallas to fire due to an aged fuel line. Whichever way you go, you'll have to expect quite a bit of work as the majority of GSs were neglected given that big repairs have cost more than most cars were worth for decades now.

    A pity you couldn't get in to see more, but a couple of points about your photos and comments.
    The seats have been re-upholstered at some stage - not at all unusual but it actually often makes it even harder to then match the cloth later if you want to. The door card condition also isn't unusual at this age. Have a look at lamoor's GS restoration thread on here to get an idea of what you can do to re-upholster, or contemplate back-dating by seeing if you can get hold of some earlier vinyl door cards which age much better than the cloth.
    My memory is failing me, but iirc if that's the style of club sticker that mounts inside the glass it hasn't been issued for at least a decade. Stained headlining isn't necessarily a sign of rust, you may need to reseal the join on the edge of the gutter (but beware the gutter plastic trim is notoriously fragile when it ages). The rust at the top of the pillar is where the factory joins panels, repair isn't as difficult as at the bottom of the screen due to the simpler shape.
    The front lights aren't the "standard" ones worldwide for this year model - the Australian market got an Accessory product (just as rhd always got a round dial dash regardless of the European version at any time). NOS examples of the indicators do occasionally come up on European eBay sites at reasonable to exorbitant prices (due to their rarity over there), but the headlights are the problem as any that come up for sale are invariably for lhd. What were all the headlights like, reflector and lense? Again you can backdate to the older style more common lights if you have to, or you might be able to get some replacements locally (or you can try to remake the mounting plates so other headlights will fit in the surround - I've owned a car that was fitted with the later P504 headlights).
    Door rust looks relatively normal for its age.
    Unfortunately the external rust you've seen really isn't any indicator of what the floor and front sills might really be like. Some of us have the theory that water ingress might be through the edges of the plastic sheet glued on between wheel and pillar behind the front guard (you can only see what's going on with it by pulling off the guard, and on the lhs there's foam inside this box section as well where the bonnet release cable passes through), but water can get in somewhere and an otherwise good looking car can have rusted from the inside out at this point. It's the same story with the boot. The boot floors don't rust badly (they drain easily), but the sides do because there's a re-inforcing panel at the bottom of the wheel arch that can gather dirt if the paint is damaged. It's usually at the point behind the wheel, where the average owner never completely washes the car, that this dirt will gather and the rust will occur first. These areas are places the average owner never looks so a seemingly "well-kept" car can have rust in them, but they aren't impossible to repair (European restorations quite often involve one of them at least) but are time consuming.
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

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    ccc
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    Hi Bruce
    Thanks for advice.
    The current owner bought it off an intermediate short term owner who had it from the longer? unknown previous owner.
    Its in a downward spiral... The Rustwaffe have had a good go at it and its engine is misfiring as it tries to glide in to a friendly driveway. (come in control tower, cant see the field)

    The headlights and their reflectors didnt get a good look... no obvious issues with them. Altho the plastic surround on the passenger side was cracked.Was a bit overwhelmed in trying to see as much as possible as quickly as possible. Teenage son in the background complaining on taking too many pics.....
    Am going to think on it over the weekend. V tempted..by engineering. Nice dash too
    (inboard discs and the green spheres and their oil tank...)
    The re cover of the seats was v well done.
    The philosophy would be to remove/repair all rust damage, minimal refurb of interior. Keep original...
    (rat rod without the rats or the hot rodding, more shabby chic)
    The old Citroen CC sticker is a beauty.
    Last edited by ccc; 2nd January 2016 at 05:20 PM.

  22. #22
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    Another one bites the dust. The seller posted for wrecking. Now sold. Very, very sad. Another dead Citroen and a rare one. Chris

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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Oh Dear,

    Our problem is room. How do you keep finding covered space for all these old cars? Which they need if they are not going to continue to rust away. The covered space is much more expensive than actually getting the cars!

    Cheers, Ken
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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Storage is one thing, but what of people committed to restoration or preservation of these cars? Simply keeping a deteriorated item with no progress to a conservation plan is merely delaying inevitable scrapping.

    It's the reality of what people want as opposed to what they will really ever commit both sizeable coin and serious time to.

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    yeah theres a free merc sports coupe floating around here, quick brain maths shows lot of time money with low or no profit margin. Most cars are destined to be scrap one day. pity about the little GS such nice cars.

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