Seat belt installation
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Thread: Seat belt installation

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    Fellow Frogger! bleudanube's Avatar
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    Default Seat belt installation

    And another question that didn't get any takers in the resto blog...

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    I am after advice where to get the correct seat belts (front and rear) for the DS. And how you have installed them:

    - which direction /orientation did you install the intertia reels?
    - are you using the stiff whip type buckle for the front or retained the clip and hoop bolt floppy style? What length whip/belt is best?
    - rear seats: did you just bolt the intertia reels to the parcel shelf, or is there a neater way? Or did you retain the fixed belts?

    thanks again. Photos more than welcome... 😁

    Sven

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    See:
    where to buy seat belts for a ds

    Add to it and then Shane can include this thread, linking to the other, in his 'excellent' list.
    Last edited by David S; 29th October 2015 at 02:08 AM.

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    Hi Sven,

    I had a 1971 D Super that wasn’t fitted with rear belts and I wanted some for the kids.

    I took it to a normal seat belt shop and they fitted 3 point inertia belts for me. Under the rear seat swab they found tapped factory mounting points for lap belts with a standard thread and just used those and then mounted the inertia blocks in the corners of the rear shelf. However, the problem I found that was the blocks were plastic and just not designed to handle the sunlight exposure of sitting on a parcel shelf. After a year they had turned milky and within 2-3 years were starting to crumble and were useless. I took it back but they said they wasn’t anything they could do.

    I don’t know if it was the type I had been supplied with, maybe there’s a more specific type available or perhaps they should have been covered but it would be something to bear in mind.

    Regards,

    Danny.

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    I replaced mine. Bought them from seat safe in Queensland. Not the cheapest but adr compliant. Not things to save money on

    front seats were a direct swap using existing mounts and they made the female stalks to the correct length for me

    back seats I also used inertia real mounted UNDER the rear parcel shelf. They came with a need cassette to put in the hole you need to cut in the parcel shelf to thread the belt through. They also supplied a reinforcing plate with a welded threaded bolt. The whole job was about 5 hours.

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    Could you post a few pictures of the rear inertia reel and reinforcing plate setup Peter? It sounds like a very good solution.

    I presume you'd retain the lap sash for the middle rear passenger or did you also add a 3-point belt and inertia reel there too?
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    Is there a way of fitting normal "fixed" 3-point lap-sash belts? Inertia reel belts should really be avoided if one has safety as a concern (reasons on request).

    cheers! Peter

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    Thanks guys for the seat safe link. As their showroom is only 15 min away in Brisbane I might drive past and get the right ones there and then. Who would have thought there is someone that close...

    Sven
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    I posted awhile ago on this topic, the guy at Safeseat is awesome, really helpful, he even told me just to go to Repco for the rear belts. I used sash in the rear which I got from Repco. My only point I would make when installing the front inertia belts is to be VERY careful loosening any bolts out of the sill nuts, go slowly with the socket on them and juice the bolts up with some penetrator like WD.
    I had one break and had to do a thread insert on one. Otherwise it was open the sill up. The integrity of the insert is solid and the threads are all standard imperial.

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    Will post pics tomorrow.

    You're right on rear centre belt. Left them as they are and tucked then under the seat as they are never used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    Is there a way of fitting normal "fixed" 3-point lap-sash belts? Inertia reel belts should really be avoided if one has safety as a concern (reasons on request).

    cheers! Peter
    You can't be serious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterMol View Post
    You can't be serious.
    Totally. Would you like the reasons? cheers! Peter

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    Many cars, especially the later ones, have a fixing point welded into the inside C pillar. Remove the inner foam cover and have a look see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    Totally. Would you like the reasons? cheers! Peter
    Reasons to be treated with a large grain of salt I would suggest. I fitted inertia belts to the outer rear of the CX Prestige in 1997 and they are still fine, the black plastic cover is still OK. They were just Britax bought from the local parts store. The only thing I don't like using inertia reel belts with is baby capsules/seats. That is one reason I left the middle belt as a manual lap belt. You can pull the the base of my grandsons capsule down really tight, just as good as ISOFIX.
    Mine

    CX Prestige
    Toyota Prius

    In the family

    Xantia SX

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    Well, being a reel of webbing, they'll stretch more than a fixed lap/sash could. One reason for pre-tensioners in later models. They'd also be pretty hopeless if there was any delay in locking up.
    Still, it's all relative and if you were desperately worried about safety, you'd worry more about the modest strength of the structure failing in a big crash. Or just buy something new. The parcel shelf isn't really all that strong and a few would be almost rusted through at both ends (... along with e bottom of the C-pillar ... and the roof rail and ...) and the owners drives blissfully on ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    Reasons to be treated with a large grain of salt I would suggest. I fitted inertia belts to the outer rear of the CX Prestige in 1997 and they are still fine, the black plastic cover is still OK. They were just Britax bought from the local parts store. The only thing I don't like using inertia reel belts with is baby capsules/seats. That is one reason I left the middle belt as a manual lap belt. You can pull the the base of my grandsons capsule down really tight, just as good as ISOFIX.
    Every now & then one's hope that one's interlocutors are rational agents is threatened. One shouldn't treat reasons with either credulity or a grain of salt; one should analyse the arguments & appraise their plausibility.

    I am, however, pleased that your black plastic cover is 0K; all's good for you then.

    For others who might be willing and able to appraise a case, David basically has the design flaw identified.

    The locking device is the spindle. All belts stretch under duress & apart from the extra length around the spindle one has more belt from the inertia reel assembly on the floor up to the pivot on the B pillar at shoulder height. That's about double the belt length of a fixed 3 point harness in total then. The amount of stretch can be significant & smashing one's face on the steering wheel not implausible.

    The argument for their introduction was that, as motorists tended to be too thoughtless or lazy to adjust a fixed harness properly, one would be better off overall with automatic adjustment even though it is a less safe system than a properly adjusted fixed belt.

    As David also notes, the flaw was remediated later by the fitment of pyrotechnic pre-tensioners. In the absence of that option for the DS, I can't see why one would fit a reel unless one is too lazy or incompetent to adjust a fixed 3-point harness properly. And even if that is so, there is another auto-adjusting & retro-fittable option which lessens the stretch length by having a different looking device. The so-called "webbing-grabber" belt which, in an emergency, has a device clamp on the belt as it emerges from the reel rather than locking the spindle. A firm called Klippan makes them.

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    Every now & then one's hope that one's interlocutors are rational agents is threatened. One shouldn't treat reasons with either credulity or a grain of salt; one should analyse the arguments & appraise their plausibility.

    I am, however, pleased that your black plastic cover is 0K; all's good for you then.

    For others who might be willing and able to appraise a case, David basically has the design flaw identified.

    The locking device is the spindle. All belts stretch under duress & apart from the extra length around the spindle one has more belt from the inertia reel assembly on the floor up to the pivot on the B pillar at shoulder height. That's about double the belt length of a fixed 3 point harness in total then. The amount of stretch can be significant & smashing one's face on the steering wheel not implausible.

    The argument for their introduction was that, as motorists tended to be too thoughtless or lazy to adjust a fixed harness properly, one would be better off overall with automatic adjustment even though it is a less safe system than a properly adjusted fixed belt.

    As David also notes, the flaw was remediated later by the fitment of pyrotechnic pre-tensioners. In the absence of that option for the DS, I can't see why one would fit a reel unless one is too lazy or incompetent to adjust a fixed 3-point harness properly. And even if that is so, there is another auto-adjusting & retro-fittable option which lessens the stretch length by having a different looking device. The so-called "webbing-grabber" belt which, in an emergency, has a device clamp on the belt as it emerges from the reel rather than locking the spindle. A firm called Klippan makes them.

    Peter
    Can't say I agree on the basis that these belt were fitted worldwide under the supervision of safety authorities who actually had the tests and data to make an informed decision. If you fitted one or any belt for that matter to a parcel shelf that had rust you would be a fool. Mine is rust free and the plate provides considerable distribution of the stresses and is ADR compliant.

    For or those interested and as requested I have attached a couple of photos. Note you will need to peel back the parcel shelf lining to complete an installation that doesn't show




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    Seat belt installation-image.jpg

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    Seat belt installation-image.jpgClick image for larger version. 

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    Sorry. Need to learn how to post pics

    Seat belt installation-image.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterMol View Post
    Can't say I agree on the basis that these belt were fitted worldwide under the supervision of safety authorities who actually had the tests and data to make an informed decision.
    <snip>
    ??
    What you say is quite consistent with my remarks concerning them. Remember that the comparison for a systemic shift is not well adjusted fixed belt as used by enthusiast versus automatic belt used by same. It's overall safety achieved by fixed belts adjusted (badly) by the average driver versus that achieved by automatic adjustment.

    I think that the introduction of inertia reel belts by the authorities was a good move for safety given the average driver's tendency to under-tighten a belt.

    But the issue here is not one of systemic comparisons. The stretch point is not a controversial one that is "just my opinion" & if one can trust oneself to adjust a fixed belt competently, then the safety advantage is clear. It also has the "spin off" (pun intended) merit of better holding one in place during brisk cornering :-)

    cheers! Peter

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    Yes, but with fixed belts you can't then reach forward to scratch your feet that are resting on the passenger airbag in the dash ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Yes, but with fixed belts you can't then reach forward to scratch your feet that are resting on the passenger airbag in the dash ...
    Not entirely a drollery.

    3 of my 4 toys have 4 point harnesses (& yes, each is used, in turns of course, as a "daily driver" - there's no great inconvenience). In one of them, the Moke, all of the switches are standardly in a central console along with the Speedo. Unreachable in a 4 point harness. I ended up having a switch panel put on the A pillar of the roll cage.

    cheers! Peter

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