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Thread: Barn find DS21

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    Fellow Frogger! Balki's Avatar
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    Default Barn find DS21

    Well not strickly barn as there wasnt a barn involved

    The story goes like this, i responded to an add on gumtree about a DS21 forsale in Launceston Tas after a tip off from a friend, rang the guy about the car he tells me its semi auto and LHD, found this a little hard to believe but anyway bought it sight unseen for lets say "hundreds" hooked up the trailer and headed of as quick as i could, got to Launceston 1.5hrs later to find what the pictures tell better than words

    the car was stipped and everything boxed ready for restoration

    Its a DS21 pallas BVH LHD Canandian car imported by someone in NSW and was on the road till around 12 months ago when they stripped it and put it in the shed, he put it out side 4 weeks ago, so at least everything in the car wasnt water afected as i first thought when i saw it,

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    It has all the american fittings like the non turning lights the strange indicators, the rear bumper with room fo rthe large number plate, vinyl roof, burgundy plastic dash (not painted) rear indicators that protrude out of the trumpets,

    rear half of chassis very rusty but roof rail is perfect, sills rusty, perfect rust free booot lid, parts will make a great upgrade for a D special
    You never know whats in a shed around the cornerBarn find DS21-12.jpgBarn find DS21-13.jpgBarn find DS21-14.jpgBarn find DS21-15.jpgBarn find DS21-photo-1.jpgBarn find DS21-photo-2.jpgBarn find DS21-photo-3.jpg
    JohnW and lozenge like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balki View Post
    Well not strickly barn as there wasnt a barn involved

    The story goes like this, i responded to an add on gumtree about a DS21 forsale in Launceston Tas after a tip off from a friend, rang the guy about the car he tells me its semi auto and LHD, found this a little hard to believe but anyway bought it sight unseen for lets say "hundreds" hooked up the trailer and headed of as quick as i could, got to Launceston 1.5hrs later to find what the pictures tell better than words

    the car was stipped and everything boxed ready for restoration

    Its a DS21 pallas BVH LHD Canandian car imported by someone in NSW and was on the road till around 12 months ago when they stripped it and put it in the shed, he put it out side 4 weeks ago, so at least everything in the car wasnt water afected as i first thought when i saw it,

    It has all the american fittings like the non turning lights the strange indicators, the rear bumper with room fo rthe large number plate, vinyl roof, burgundy plastic dash (not painted) rear indicators that protrude out of the trumpets,

    rear half of chassis very rusty but roof rail is perfect, sills rusty, perfect rust free booot lid, parts will make a great upgrade for a D special
    You never know whats in a shed around the cornerClick image for larger version. 

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    I am sure you will get some replies about saving it as a BVH rather than just scrounging bits for a lowly DSpecial. Why not use the DSpecial as a basis for a BVH Pallas. I concede the LHD configeration may add some complications but if the rust is as limited as you describe surely this car can be saved and another of less "interesting" specs be sacrificed. You could investigate one of those galvanised D chassis from Germany..already set up for LHD .. then you'd have 2. One to pamper ( the BVH ) and one to use .. the lowly DSpecial.
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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I'd not heard of the "galvanised D chassis from Germany". Off to educate myself - ta.

    Edit: Have surfed, not yet seen any reference to a commercially offered Dee subframe in galvanised.
    Last edited by addo; 19th October 2015 at 08:05 AM.

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    Hi Balki,
    Well that's what's called a project is it !!
    Good luck. I think my SHMBO would be less than impressed.
    Jaahn

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Adam, about that galvanized frame. I think it was the Dutch offering that. I saw a couple pics, thought it looked awfully shiny, but if it beats rust I'm OK with it. I'll have a look and see if I can find who that was.

    On the main subject: The Canadian cars were an amalgam of US and Euro spec pieces. What it sounds like is you have a US spec car, not Canadian. If you decide to put this back together as original, you are going to have differences well beyond the LHD. Don't be afraid to put in a call for me, or Steve, or Wally. Hint- the electrical systems are very different.

    The red dash is a curiosity, as that was supposed to be the "Jubilee" version, celebrating some milestone in the D's production. IIRC, available supposedly in France, Germany and Netherlands. We never saw it. But as we all know, a D dash is relatively easy to change out.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Always interesting what's out there! Good pick up when you have storage. Well done, and....Let's know if that front valance is surplus to requirements!

    Tim

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    Fellow Frogger! Balki's Avatar
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    i did mean making a d special a ds21 bvh pallas sorry, i am not really interested in restoring a very ugly americanised lhd car, but would prefer to use the parts to make a ds21 bvh

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    Fellow Frogger! Balki's Avatar
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    which front valance, the one on the car is pretty rough as per usual and has big hole in it for the indicators

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    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    There appeared to be one a pile....pic 15.jpg. Looks ok compared to mine - yes they to tend to cop a beating. Mine has been messed up fully due to 'aftermarket aircon vents'! Not easy to come by.

    Tim

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balki View Post
    i did mean making a d special a ds21 bvh pallas sorry, i am not really interested in restoring a very ugly americanised lhd car, but would prefer to use the parts to make a ds21 bvh
    Oh now, come on, they're not THAT bad......
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Burgundy plastic dash came on the 1972 DS21 Pallas Jubilee edition. They were sold in the USA market. Quite rare and a Jubilee car usually brings a slight price premium over a non Jubilee. They had the red dash, special fabric upholstery and I think three body colors; burgundy, white, and silver. I think there were some 1200 built. Not sure where I learned that so don't quote me.

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    Jint Nijman has some info at his website on this particular model:

    Citroën DS/ID and XM Web-Site

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund View Post
    I am sure you will get some replies about saving it as a BVH rather than just scrounging bits for a lowly DSpecial. Why not use the DSpecial as a basis for a BVH Pallas. I concede the LHD configeration may add some complications but if the rust is as limited as you describe surely this car can be saved and another of less "interesting" specs be sacrificed. You could investigate one of those galvanised D chassis from Germany..already set up for LHD .. then you'd have 2. One to pamper ( the BVH ) and one to use .. the lowly DSpecial.
    Barn find DS21-img_0226.jpg
    Hey Fitzy......some members of this forum do not consider their D Special to be 'lowly'. In fact this owner is quite proud of his D Special. Lots of elbow grease, lots of driving and heaps of money saved for daughter and nieces on their wedding days etc.
    Cheers. K
    Last edited by k eeles; 22nd October 2015 at 02:12 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Fellow Frogger! Balki's Avatar
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    i will say i like the d special, nice and simple with nice clean lines, but i already have 2 so one would make a nice conversion
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    I'd not heard of the "galvanised D chassis from Germany". Off to educate myself - ta.

    Edit: Have surfed, not yet seen any reference to a commercially offered Dee subframe in galvanised.


    A company in the Netherlands is providing this service, the link to the website is falling over but I'll try it again anon. . .

    Cheers
    Chris
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    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post


    A company in the Netherlands is providing this service, the link to the website is falling over but I'll try it again anon. . .

    Cheers
    Chris
    Good find !!! The Renault Espace prestige people movers are built in a similar way to D framework, cladding is mostly low tensile strength plastics. The structure itself is many "bits" just like a D ... The Renault gets a hot dip galvanising treatment that also serves to make the space frame more rigid. Now I am no fan of the DS construction ( brilliantly conceived but poorly executed, certainly not worthy of the word "coachwork" or even "bodywork " ) .. a hot dipped D frame could be considerably more rigid in torsion,

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    could the heat from the process warp the crap out of it though

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deesse View Post
    could the heat from the process warp the crap out of it though
    I think it's the same company that galvanises 2CVs and not just the ladder frame. . .




    Verzinkte koets

    They seem to have it down to an artform.

    Cheers
    Chris
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    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    How do they hot dip inside the closed box sections? Extra vent and drain holes? Maybe they rely on cavity wax. This is actually a real concern when dipping cars with complex box sections as the chemicals probably strip away any remaining paint protection inside and may not dissolve the unseen rust.

    I guess the rust wold stop once it perforated from inside and reaches the zinc on the outside.

    Pity the poor sod who gets the repetitive job of re-tapping all the threads.

    p.s. Now you know you have a 'rarity', you know you will have to restore this car to it's original ugliness Balki

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    How do they hot dip inside the closed box sections? Extra vent and drain holes? Maybe they rely on cavity wax. This is actually a real concern when dipping cars with complex box sections as the chemicals probably strip away any remaining paint protection inside and may not dissolve the unseen rust.

    I guess the rust wold stop once it perforated from inside and reaches the zinc on the outside.

    Pity the poor sod who gets the repetitive job of re-tapping all the threads.

    p.s. Now you know you have a 'rarity', you know you will have to restore this car to it's original ugliness Balki
    Not an inexpensive process David, if you view their site they point out the extent of preparation. Rust on the inside of box sections could only be chemically neutralised but that would be no different to conventional paint treatments. Likewise for tapping threads, I used POR on the front of mine and was quite careful around threads but have still found I have to re-tap.

    From memory, that is without going back and re-reading the blurb, you only get a 10 year guarantee. Seems like overkill for a car that with the dollars spent is most likely going to be a museum piece.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Fellow Frogger! Lasya's Avatar
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    I put blu-tac into the threads and push it down enough so the paint gets down almost to the thread, then score with a blade and remove the blu-tac. Very time saving.
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    Gillian and Chris

    74 D Special, and now a 74 Pallas 23 5 speed with air(maybe). And now a Cactus!

    Oh, and a Holden.

    Lasya, Tibetan goddess of the moon and beauty who carries a mirror.

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post


    A company in the Netherlands is providing this service, the link to the website is falling over but I'll try it again anon. . .

    Cheers
    Chris

    Nice find Chris. I knew I had seen that, but I apparently didn't bookmark it.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Nice find Chris. I knew I had seen that, but I apparently didn't bookmark it.
    See !! They DO exist. I am NOT as loopy and useless as some people think I am !!!

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund View Post
    See !! They DO exist. I am NOT as loopy and useless as some people think I am !!!
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Default Hmm ??

    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund View Post
    The Renault Espace prestige people movers are built in a similar way to D framework, cladding is mostly low tensile strength plastics. The structure itself is many "bits" just like a D ... The Renault gets a hot dip galvanising treatment that also serves to make the space frame more rigid. Now I am no fan of the DS construction ( brilliantly conceived but poorly executed, certainly not worthy of the word "coachwork" or even "bodywork " ) .. a hot dipped D frame could be considerably more rigid in torsion,
    Hi fritzelhund,
    I am intrigued by the statement "also serves to make the space frame more rigid". What is the justification for this statement ? Having an extra layer of zinc on the metal and claiming that is very big ask, it seems to me. I do not remember claims like that when I did my metallurgy course years ago

    Otherwise probably a good idea that could be done here by most large galvanisers. They do boat trailers regularly
    Jaahn

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