Activa hydractive system
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 3 123 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 53
Like Tree6Likes

Thread: Activa hydractive system

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Armidale
    Posts
    2,282

    Default Activa hydractive system

    Since we have the car home now, it's time to start a new thread .

    Advertisement


    We have both come down with the flu (serves us right for interrupting the road trip and visiting family ) - will try not to cough on you.

    Made a little progress today.

    Firstly, Air con responded to Lexia this morning, so it's only the Hydractive CPU that won't talk now. Moved it into a garage, where I definitely should be able to hear the electrovalves - nothing. However heard a rattle that didn't go on all the time, so perhaps the pump is cycling.

    BTW - hydraulic pump is 2nd hand - presumably from Martin Bray, as it has white writing on it - 16vS2 OK. That raises a question - does the Activa model use the same pump as the SX models?

    Thanks Ken W for posting the pin-out diagram - got me searching. Found that, apart from power, earth, and engine/transmission diagnostics, there doesn't seem to be much in common with the Xantia plug.

    I found this thread French Car Forum ? View topic - Lexia Cable issues - where Mandrake offers a translation from the 30-pin Series-I plug to the Series-2 16-pin plug. I also found another page (which I failed to bookmark & can't find now ).

    In brief, Mandrake thinks the Hydractive signal should be on Pin 11, whereas the other document was pretty certain that it is on Pin 14.

    I got power on lines 1 & 16, Earth on 4 & 5, signals (less than battery voltage) on 2, 3, 6, 7, 12 and 15. Nothing at all on 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14. This remained constant whether ignition key was switched on, or engine was running.

    The best map I could get from the 2 documents was (ignoring power, earth & engine, which are as for Peugeot)
    6 - ABS?
    11 - Hydractive ?
    12 - Steering
    13 - GMV2
    14 - Heater/Aircon & Suspension/hydractive

    Hmm - just realised that if 14 is shared between Air-con and Hydractive, there should have been an aircon signal if nothing else...

    Have checked computers against my old VSX Turbo Ct - engine CPU is same model, completely interchangeable. Body/suspension CPU (is this right - that all other functions are in this 2nd shiny box with 2 plugs?) looks very similar, but inbe of the 2 plugs is different (not really surpising, unless my old one were to have the Activa electronic functionality installed but switched off).

    When I'm feeling a bit better (and when the rain stops) I'll put a battery in the VSX and see what signal can be measured on the control wire to the front and rear hydractive solenoids, then compare with the mighty Activa. Took it shopping late this afternoon (thought I'd share my germs around Coles ) - dropped tyre pressures a bit. They weren't excessive, but I though it felt a bit better on the way home.

    Yeah - I know - the thread's a bit long, but by tomorrow morning I probably will have forgotten it all

    Cheers

    Ummm - perhaps I'll remember when I stop sneezing

  2. #2
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,609

    Default

    Pin 14 probably, wire code is 7715.

    CitroJim furnished me with the Hydractive diagrams off an S2, and Activa diagrams off an S1. Both have 7715 as the diagnostic line.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    North Brisbane
    Posts
    1,892

    Default

    The Activa suspension computer is different from the hydractive in that it operates an extra solenoid to swich from half anti-roll bar strength to full strength. So your car is only operating on its corner spheres and full strength ant-roll bars. I have heard that some hydractives where the suspension computer has gone on holidays have been calmed down by fitting SX model spheres. I would be checking all the part numbers to see what spheres you have on the car ast the moment.

    Keep trying to get the suspension computer to talk to your Lexia. Hopefully it will start to talk soon. Have you tried the battery disconnect, wait then reconnect yet?

    Cheers, Ken

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Armidale
    Posts
    2,282

    Default

    No - haven't tried disconnecting the battery, however it is fairly new, so appears to have disconnected not too long ago! May not have been for long enough however...

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    North Brisbane
    Posts
    1,892

    Default

    I suppose while you have the battery disconnected you should take the ECU out and disconnect the plugs give them all a spray with contact cleaner, check the ECU doesn't smell all burned up inside and then reconnect it. I presume the fuse to the suspension computer is intact.

    Cheers, Ken

  6. #6
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,609

    Default

    It's quite apparent when the driver transistors are cooked. The case is a bugger to separate, I would advocate a "slow and steady" methodology. I'd also warm it in the oven before re-sealing to reduce trapped moisture.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    18,731

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken W View Post
    I suppose while you have the battery disconnected you should take the ECU out and disconnect the plugs give them all a spray with contact cleaner, check the ECU doesn't smell all burned up inside and then reconnect it. I presume the fuse to the suspension computer is intact.

    Cheers, Ken
    Watch the contact cleaner on the connector housing. Some of VOC based cleaners melt them!

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    North Brisbane
    Posts
    1,892

    Default

    Alec,

    I'm don't know why you are worrying about what pins do what. The interface box switches its signal leads around to suit what the car has using a bank for relays. You have to use an adaptor with older cars, 2 wire adaptor for BXs and 30 pin for XM and series 1 Xantias, but for later cars, I just plug the native interface box straight into the OBD port on the car and let the Lexia software switch the interface box relays to find the right pins for whatever ECU it is trying to talk to.

    Cheers, Ken

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Armidale
    Posts
    2,282

    Default

    Ken I understand what you are saying, but I'm trying to eliminate the possibility that my Lexia system is faulty (it's not working at all on our 406), or that there's a bad connection at the OBD plug. I'm assuming that if I can't find a signal voltage for the ECU in question, then it's possible that it's not working. If someone can explain a more direct method of testing whether the Hydractive/Activa ECU is functioning, I'm all ears .

    In the meantime, I've been reading the manual , and looking at the dashboard warning lamps. The ABS, oil level & air bag lights all light when the key is switched on, then switch off after 2-3 seconds (this is normal). The engine auto-diagnosis light and oil pressure lights go out when the engine is started - so far all normal, confirming that problems seem to be limited to the hydraulics. However I've now realised that the Hydraulic Pressure & Fluid Level warning lamp, as well as the STOP light, does not light - ever.

    I've been too lazy so far to pull the instrument panel out and replace the globes, but I have installed a beeper (easy swap from old car). Like the rear height corrector, it's very slow, but eventually pressure does rise enough to switch off the beeper (maybe 2 minutes). So presumably I'm looking at significant internal leaks, rather than a weak pump?

    I'm leaving the battery disconnected overnight - not holding out much hope for any changes .

    Cheers

    Alec

    PS - I have Erik & Lydia's word for it that all spheres were replaced/regassed, and the suspension definitely works, albeit a bit firm! Without a sphere tester, is there any way to confirm that accumulators have good pressure?

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    North Brisbane
    Posts
    1,892

    Default

    I think the leaks in the Activa system comprehensively defeats the antisink system on the front suspension, my front suspension is down on the bump stops within four hours of me parking it. It is only a 2 piston side of the 2+6 piston pump that pumps up the high pressure system so having to fill two accumulators and two suspension spheres does take a while and is normal. An activa in not a car for fast getaways. I find revving it at about 2000 rpm reduces the wait time significantly.

    Did you get the owners manual with the car? I will check the fuse functions in my manual to see if this correlates with your missing lights and suspension computer.

    F3 10A in the cabin is hydractive suspension and in the engine fuse box behind the battery, F8 20A is also hydractive computer.

    Cheers, Ken
    Last edited by Ken W; 28th August 2015 at 11:39 PM.

  11. #11
    JBN
    JBN is offline
    1000+ Posts JBN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    8,145

    Default

    I believe the circuit board in the Activa CPU will be the same as the XM/Xantia VSX one. There are 2 VN05 drivers on the XM/Xantia VSX, one for the front hydractive and one for the rear. In between, there is a space for a third VN05 driver for (I suspect) the Activa.

    Likewise, the diodes relate to the VN05 drivers, and there is a location for an extra diode for the Activa. Note that the printed circuit board doesn't originally have the diodes attached to it (they are located on the solenoids). However, some smart engineer figured that you could have them on the PCB, and left some convenient mounting points. The "black boxes" that are available have the diodes and (I think) the VN05 drivers on their own custom PCB and that is all spliced into the wiring outside of the suspension CPU. A more expensive and complex addition, when you can solder these onto the original PCB.

    The first photo is of the original XM/VSX PCB. The mounting points for the diodes are circled in red. The second photo shows the diodes soldered to the mounting points (NB: they need the yellowed lacquer scraped off first). The grey end of the diodes needs to face the VN05 drivers. I expect the same modifications could be made to an Activa using the central position between the front and rear hydractive controllers.

    Activa hydractive system-diode-positions.jpgActiva hydractive system-diode-soldered.jpg

    John
    addo and forumnoreason like this.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Armidale
    Posts
    2,282

    Default

    Hi Ken

    I'm pleased to say that my car doesn't sink nearly as dramatically as that! The back goes down a bit overnight, front hardly at all.
    Thanks for fuse info (I do have the book) - I had checked them - looked OK - this time I swapped them for others of same Amps - made no difference (good to exclude that one though).

    Did some testing using the beeper this morning. (BTW - disconnecting battery overnight doesn't seem to have changed anything). I started the engine and let it idle for 5 minutes - beeper ran continuously. Then I held revs just over 2000 - felt car shift & beeping stopped in 30 seconds. Since then I've retested after short intervals switched off - beeping stops the instant the engine fires!

    It looks a bit like the pump had lost prime overnight. Perhaps I should try a replacement suction line. However the power steering has shown no signs of odd behaviour, whereas dodgy P/S was the symptom in my son's wagon (fixed by new suction line).

    No as to my hopes of diagnosis by comparison: the instant I connect a battery to the old VSX, the front height corrector starts to sing like a canary - quite audible outdoors. However when I tested for voltage on the two wires (after disconnecting the electrical plug to the FHC), I got nothing. On reconnecting the plug, the FHC remained quiet until I did something like opening/closing a door. So my guess is that the disconnection is instantly detected, and the power switched off. Will try again with a helper to open/close doors etc. however it's looking like I'd have to use some form of piggy-back connector to do a valid test, which of course would damage the insulation on those wires...

    Also my Lexia seems to only interact with the engine computer on the Series I VSX - can't get response from any other components. My recollection is 'twas always thus, so still can't prove whether or not my diagnostic equipment is fully functional...

    Anyway, I'm pleased to have learnt that the pump is working pretty well (apart from refusing to pump at low revs after a good crisp frost overnight ).

    Hi John

    Your confidence in chucking these circuit boards around (& soldering things to them!) is impressive. If/when I get around the dismantling the case (& just to confirm, I presume it is the one siamesed to the engine computer in the box near the coolant expansion tank?), I will post a photo to confirm your theory. Certainly hope it's true - don't want to be dealing with something totally different!!

    If I decide to try your method (& it should certainly be better solution that a piggy-back solution that inevitably must damage wiring) I might see if the local Jaycar stockist has electronic soldering skills in their workshop. I really would like to find some way to determine if the thing is actually functioning before spending money (& time) though.

    Cheers

    Alec

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    18,731

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    I believe the circuit board in the Activa CPU will be the same as the XM/Xantia VSX one. There are 2 VN05 drivers on the XM/Xantia VSX, one for the front hydractive and one for the rear. In between, there is a space for a third VN05 driver for (I suspect) the Activa.

    Likewise, the diodes relate to the VN05 drivers, and there is a location for an extra diode for the Activa. Note that the printed circuit board doesn't originally have the diodes attached to it (they are located on the solenoids). However, some smart engineer figured that you could have them on the PCB, and left some convenient mounting points. The "black boxes" that are available have the diodes and (I think) the VN05 drivers on their own custom PCB and that is all spliced into the wiring outside of the suspension CPU. A more expensive and complex addition, when you can solder these onto the original PCB.

    The first photo is of the original XM/VSX PCB. The mounting points for the diodes are circled in red. The second photo shows the diodes soldered to the mounting points (NB: they need the yellowed lacquer scraped off first). The grey end of the diodes needs to face the VN05 drivers. I expect the same modifications could be made to an Activa using the central position between the front and rear hydractive controllers.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Diode positions.jpg 
Views:	655 
Size:	39.1 KB 
ID:	73740Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Diode soldered.jpg 
Views:	666 
Size:	96.4 KB 
ID:	73741

    John
    It's always better to locate the "quench" diodes at the source of the back emf. So, if it were my vehicle I'd be placing diodes as close a possible to the solenoids.

    However a second set of diodes at the ECU can't hurt.

    FWIW yellow lacquer is an environmental protector and should be replaced after soldering the new components.
    http://www.jaycar.com.au/Service-Aid...y-Can/p/NA1002

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Wollongong, NSW
    Posts
    495

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Armidillo View Post
    No - haven't tried disconnecting the battery, however it is fairly new, so appears to have disconnected not too long ago! May not have been for long enough however...
    Yes it was away for some time while I was using it to tinker with another car. A few weeks.

    Erik

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Armidale
    Posts
    2,282

    Default

    Thanks Erik - left it off overnight - made no difference (except it lost the radio settings again). Can you remember if you/Lydia installed that battery? It doesn't look old, but isn't on Lydia's list of work done.

    Very pleased with my local AutoPro - went in to order some Iridium plugs for the red beast - they had them in stock! Then I tried to order LHM - they had that in stock too(Penrite LHM Plus)!! I bought a litre just to give their stock computer some encouragement - have asked for quote for 20 litre drum.

    Erik - re. your comment that fuel economy was not what you'd hoped - plugs were pretty old/gaps pretty wide (Eyquem - weren't they the OEM brand)? Will report on whether new plugs makes a difference!

    Cheers

    Alec

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Armidale
    Posts
    2,282

    Default

    Sorry about my long posts, but they are as much a record for myself as I test things & draw conclusions. If I don't document what I've done, I've no doubt I'll start repeating myself.

    Well I now understand why the wretched beeper was disconnected . Ken I'm sure my car doesn't sink to bumpstops - front or rear (but I'll doublecheck in the morning) so I wonder if it might be worth getting your front antisink valve checked. However you're obviously absolutely right about the Activa system slowing down the getaway .

    This afternoon I held the revs at about 2,500. In the first minute I felt the car lifting to the correct ride height. Then the beeping persisted for another 3 minutes with nothing apparently happening. After just over 4 minutes, out of the blue it did a diagonal lurch, then about 30 seconds later the alarm finally petered out... So holding the revs higher only saved about 45 seconds - possibly nothing at all stone-cold first thing in the morning

    I really must get all the warning lights working, then I can remove the wretched beeper - I'm a mature adult & can read warning lights!

    Cheers

    Alec
    Last edited by Armidillo; 29th August 2015 at 07:19 PM.

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Location Location
    Posts
    1,571

    Default

    It's threads like these that make me glad I've stayed with a GS

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Armidale
    Posts
    2,282

    Default

    Thanks for your support Graham - might have to bring it up for John at DS motors to look over. He has been successful in sorting out our families two previous Xantias (although his bill may well equal what I paid for the car )!

    Cheers

    Alec

  19. #19
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,609

    Default

    There's a bloke on Fleabay with dash bulbs at a decent enough price if they're not so accommodating locally: T5 12V/ 12V/1.2W Wedge Dash, Parker globe, 10 Pack Suits Most Makes & Models | eBay

  20. #20
    JBN
    JBN is offline
    1000+ Posts JBN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    8,145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    It's always better to locate the "quench" diodes at the source of the back emf. So, if it were my vehicle I'd be placing diodes as close a possible to the solenoids.

    However a second set of diodes at the ECU can't hurt.

    FWIW yellow lacquer is an environmental protector and should be replaced after soldering the new components.
    Circuit Board Lacquer Spray Can | Aerosols | Chemical Aids | Service Aids | PRODUCTS | NA1002 | Jaycar Electronics
    Thanks for that information. I will get some lacquer spray. The information regarding VN05 drivers and the diodes was obtained from a UK XM blog. The VN05 drivers only need to be replaced if they have cooked and look burnt. Mine hadn't so I left as is. The diodes I replaced as per the photos, but I didn't reapply the lacquer which I will. The pain with replacing the diodes at the solenoid is accessibility. I think that's why the UK "box of tricks" spliced into the wires going to the suspension CPU are popular and the soldering onto the PCB are popular (plus while you are there you can visually check the condition of the VN05's and fix those as well (they cost about $18 for 5 - being the minimum order). Mine are filed in a very safe place, so I will have to order again if I ever need them.

    John

  21. #21
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,609

    Default

    Some bad news, gents. The VN05-E is no longer made.

    Edit: UK retailer RS-online have an option to search alternative options. Looks like something may be possible after all...
    Last edited by addo; 29th August 2015 at 11:37 PM.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Armidale
    Posts
    2,282

    Default

    OK - decided I really need to start with the basics. Erik & Lydia had poured copious amounts of fresh LHM into the tank when it was leaking, but it's not known when last filter clean was done.
    Have removed the LHM reservoir and dismantled the centrepiece. Only broke one of the return lines - and there was enough dampness in that area that I suspect it was already cracked. Filters certainly due for a clean, but I doubt it was restricting flow to the pump. Found that the little clip that holds the larger filter in place had been replaced with a bit of bent wire (which was not really up to the task...). At least I now know that the tank has previously been serviced!! Will pinch the correct clip from the old car (actually had to use a magnet to find it in the grass today - hey at least I found it!). Despite all the dilution, the used LHM looks "murky" - green, but not transparent.

    Haynes says to wash in petrol and blow-dry with compressed air if you have it.

    Any other suggestions? I can mop out the inner part of the tank with clean cloth or paper towel, but is it possible to do anything other than rinse out the outer part of the tank ie. is the inner well (circular baffle?) removable without breaking anything? Obviously water is a no-no when you can't get access to be sure you've fully dried the tank ! Probably an old toothbrush for the insides of the filters?

    Meantime, I've unscrewed the front suspension spheres (really just testing my new strap wrench), and replaced round-section O-rings with the approved square section ones. Won't change the ride quality, but hopefully they'll come off more easily next time! Also unscrewed a leaking plug on the back of the hydraulic pump, and fitted a new o-ring. Next time I'll disconnect the suction line first . Cleaned up the mess . Actually LHM evaporates off concrete pretty well!

    With clean fluid in the system, will bleed the brakes to get rid of any residual old fluid

    Cheers

    Alec

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    North Brisbane
    Posts
    1,892

    Default

    Alec,

    Here is another thread that has some more experiences in it.

    Xantia VSX spheres etc.

    Looks to me like RS still have these VN05 drivers available.

    I fitted my diodes onto the connector blocks in the ECU just so I didn't have to disturb the circuit board. Seems a long time ago now.

    Cheers,

    Ken

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Armidale
    Posts
    2,282

    Default

    Thanks Ken! That thread certainly needs to be bookmarked - especially for the testimonials!

    Cheers

    Alec

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ici.
    Posts
    2,523

    Default

    hmm thats got me pondering investigating the board as mine ( 97 CT) seems a tad stiff! Spheres replaced at 240K which is 30k ( 2 years) ago. Had it up on the hoist yesterday to have an initial inspection and apart from slight drain seal leaks on box and sump looked pretty good. However the rack boots are not there and the front ram boots are shot. Where does one locate a parts list for these cars? I have been going around in circles trying to find them, plus I emailedCitroen in Strathfield or Parramatta ( wherever) and no response.
    want to tackle these and blower woes before rego expires. Any info appreciated.
    Steven

Page 1 of 3 123 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •