Unscrewing spheres
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Thread: Unscrewing spheres

  1. #1
    Member wilrex's Avatar
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    Default Unscrewing spheres

    Hi,
    I am wanting to put new diaphragms into my ID19 spheres.
    So I made a tool for the job.
    screwed off two spheres plus the accumulator sphere without too much drama.
    But there is no way I can get the other two to release.
    tried soaking with metho, WD40, kero, hitting around the outer ring to release any rust binding it.
    Heated it up till it steams, kept heating and then increased the pressure by jumping on the lever, then lowering the hoist until the whole weight is taken by the lever.
    Then bent the bloody crowbar.
    Lever pressure would be about 7ft.x 200 lbs. suggesting a force of 1400 ft/lbs.
    Suggestions will be welcomed.

    Rex

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Unscrewing spheres-image.jpg  
    2CV6 Special Green, Riley RMB, RX7 Rotary, Jensen Healey, 1896 Ford A replica, and last but not least 1961 Citroen ID19-P... Previous include, 27 Chev Truck, 24 Bean Truck, 27 Chev Capitol, Rover S105, Humber Hawk x 2, MGB, Ford AA Truck, Ford A, elderly motorbikes x6, and more...

  2. #2
    Member wilrex's Avatar
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    here is the other photo, upside down why?

    Rex~
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Unscrewing spheres-lever.jpg  
    2CV6 Special Green, Riley RMB, RX7 Rotary, Jensen Healey, 1896 Ford A replica, and last but not least 1961 Citroen ID19-P... Previous include, 27 Chev Truck, 24 Bean Truck, 27 Chev Capitol, Rover S105, Humber Hawk x 2, MGB, Ford AA Truck, Ford A, elderly motorbikes x6, and more...

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    iPhone user? That's a good head start for upside down pictures.

    Are they front or rear cylinders hanging on to their spheres?

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilrex View Post
    here is the other photo, upside down why?

    Rex~
    Well, you are living in the Land Down-Under....

    Which ones aren't coming off? Rears? Whatever you do, DO NOT apply a cold chisel. The result can easily be catastrophic.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    I spent several weeks attacking some split spheres. Eventually they unscrewed but just what caused the final release I can not be sure.

    I used a mix of acetone and dexron but I am told acetone and brake fluid is also worth a try. Apply it to the threads regularly over a period of some days.
    One trick I was told of though is to make sure that the tool that grasps the outer part of the sphere does not tend to crush as it grips.... this simply binds the threads tighter.

    Unscrewing spheres-rear-2_1280x718.jpgUnscrewing spheres-spere-fix-2_1024x577.jpg.
    Michael
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    Member wilrex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    iPhone user? That's a good head start for upside down pictures.

    Are they front or rear cylinders hanging on to their spheres?
    They are the front spheres, the extension piece came off easily on both.

    It is an ipad, must remember which is up, on it, but transferring on to my laptop they are OK, rightsideup, but from laptop to Aussiefrogs upside down . Has happened before. I blame MS.

    The spheres that came undone had threads that were shiny and clean, with just a little rust around the outside thread, but the rubber seal seemed to be what was holding it.

    I agree that the stillsons may be squeezing the thread, so I will now make a circular clamp to overcome this, and try the soaking methods outlined. Like most technical challenges, once you get it right, it is right forever.
    2CV6 Special Green, Riley RMB, RX7 Rotary, Jensen Healey, 1896 Ford A replica, and last but not least 1961 Citroen ID19-P... Previous include, 27 Chev Truck, 24 Bean Truck, 27 Chev Capitol, Rover S105, Humber Hawk x 2, MGB, Ford AA Truck, Ford A, elderly motorbikes x6, and more...

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    Member wilrex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Well, you are living in the Land Down-Under....

    Which ones aren't coming off? Rears? Whatever you do, DO NOT apply a cold chisel. The result can easily be catastrophic.
    Front.
    Next time I will stand on my head, that should fix it. That same theory explains why you drive on the wrong side of the road over there.

    I put one of the spheres in the lathe to clean up someone's previous attempt to get it apart. (Just a skim, no decrease in strength). They are made from a very high quality fine grain forged malleable steel, very hard to get these days, usually now have hard or soft bits through them, like melted axles etc from Asia. A cold chisel would dent these originals, rather than shatter. (de-pressured first). I used to work restoring old 19th.- early 20th century machinery. There is no comparison in the metal quality then and now. These spheres are in the 'good' list.
    I would also put some US steel in the good list, but not all.
    addo and Hotrodelectric like this.
    2CV6 Special Green, Riley RMB, RX7 Rotary, Jensen Healey, 1896 Ford A replica, and last but not least 1961 Citroen ID19-P... Previous include, 27 Chev Truck, 24 Bean Truck, 27 Chev Capitol, Rover S105, Humber Hawk x 2, MGB, Ford AA Truck, Ford A, elderly motorbikes x6, and more...

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    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    would the old tighten a tad to crack any corrosion then pray as you you loosen be a dumb option here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilrex View Post
    Hi,
    I am wanting to put new diaphragms into my ID19 spheres.
    So I made a tool for the job.
    screwed off two spheres plus the accumulator sphere without too much drama.
    But there is no way I can get the other two to release.
    tried soaking with metho, WD40, kero, hitting around the outer ring to release any rust binding it.
    Heated it up till it steams, kept heating and then increased the pressure by jumping on the lever, then lowering the hoist until the whole weight is taken by the lever.
    Then bent the bloody crowbar.
    Lever pressure would be about 7ft.x 200 lbs. suggesting a force of 1400 ft/lbs.
    Suggestions will be welcomed.

    Rex
    Rex,

    Michael got it right when he mentioned how you are trying to undo the two halves. Any system where the upper sphere half's circumference gets any kind of compression will cause those threads to bind like crazy. Keep in mind that not only are those threads right on the edge of being classified as a 'non slip fit' they are also cut at an angle to the sphere. IOW they are not at right angles to the metal (as typical threads are) but are cut at an angle so that the force from the pressure in the spheres forces the threaded portions into each other - not against each other as they would be if cut on the perpendicular.

    The best tool(s) are as follows: The 'holding tool' is just a simple square of 1/4" (6mm) thick steel plate with a recessed 'cut-out' and 4 set screws (hardened with pointed tips) that grip the narrow ridge of the upper sphere half.

    Once the sphere is securely in place the assembly is placed in a heavy duty vice. The best tool to use to undo the two halves is a large, self gripping, chain wrench. You can apply an amazing amount of torque to the lower half of the sphere without compressing those treads. Makes short work of splitting those suckers regardless of condition.

    Steve
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  10. #10
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilrex View Post
    Front.
    Next time I will stand on my head, that should fix it. That same theory explains why you drive on the wrong side of the road over there.

    I put one of the spheres in the lathe to clean up someone's previous attempt to get it apart. (Just a skim, no decrease in strength). They are made from a very high quality fine grain forged malleable steel, very hard to get these days, usually now have hard or soft bits through them, like melted axles etc from Asia. A cold chisel would dent these originals, rather than shatter. (de-pressured first). I used to work restoring old 19th.- early 20th century machinery. There is no comparison in the metal quality then and now. These spheres are in the 'good' list.
    I would also put some US steel in the good list, but not all.
    OK- I misunderstood the problem. Not the upside-down bit- you guys are still wacky that way- but what the problem was with getting your spheres apart. I thought it was you had some still stuck in the suspension cylinders.

    And agreed- certainly some, but not all US steel. Most of the quality steel we import from China now still has bits of washing machine and dog food tins still stuck in it.

    If you're still interested in restoration of old machinery, check out Keith Rucker/Vintage Machinery.org. He has a great YouTube channel. The planer-matcher restoration series is incredible.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  11. #11
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    Any pics that are upside down or side-on need to be saved to your PC first and rotated before attempting to post on AF.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Unscrewing spheres-down-side-up.jpg  

  12. #12
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    You can also edit them on the native photo viewer, rotation is easy.

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Try sending a message to the member here called "Richo". I haven't heard from him in a long time, but if he does respond to you he may be able to help with getting the spheres unscrewed

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    Rex,

    Attached are 4 photos that should give you a better idea of what I was talking about.

    The first shows the 'collar'- its inset with the set screws. The second is the self-locking chain wrench that puts little to no pressure on the circumference of the sphere. The handle of that wrench is about 2/3rd meter in length.The third and fourth shots show the collar attached to the upper sphere half.

    Steve



    Unscrewing spheres-tool.jpgUnscrewing spheres-wrench.jpgUnscrewing spheres-sphere-tool.jpgUnscrewing spheres-sphere-tool.jpg
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  15. #15
    Member wilrex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citroenfan View Post
    Rex,

    Attached are 4 photos that should give you a better idea of what I was talking about.

    The first shows the 'collar'- its inset with the set screws. The second is the self-locking chain wrench that puts little to no pressure on the circumference of the sphere. The handle of that wrench is about 2/3rd meter in length.The third and fourth shots show the collar attached to the upper sphere half.

    Steve
    Thanks Steve, when I saw your photos I remembered that I have a piece of steel that might make the holder.
    Will work on it and let you know.
    Rex
    2CV6 Special Green, Riley RMB, RX7 Rotary, Jensen Healey, 1896 Ford A replica, and last but not least 1961 Citroen ID19-P... Previous include, 27 Chev Truck, 24 Bean Truck, 27 Chev Capitol, Rover S105, Humber Hawk x 2, MGB, Ford AA Truck, Ford A, elderly motorbikes x6, and more...

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