DS23 stranded. Advice needed
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 37
Like Tree9Likes

Thread: DS23 stranded. Advice needed

  1. #1
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Bowral
    Posts
    16

    Default DS23 stranded. Advice needed

    Advice needed

    My 73 DS23 EFI is currently broken down on level 5 of the international terminal car park at Sydney AP.

    Advertisement


    For ages I've have an intermittent problem with the fuel pump. When I start the car I hear the pump kick in (Underneath drives seat) . Sometime it just doesn't work. Last night was one I those times

    NRMA couldn't really offer any help last night.

    So now I'm meeting NRMA again this morning

    Question 1. How do I instruct the car to be towed or even moved out of the car park?

    Question 2. How do I fix this problem once and for all

    Thanks in advance

    Greg
    Last edited by Greg_M; 18th August 2015 at 08:37 AM.

  2. #2
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,609

    Default

    Bummer!

    Cranking the car enough times may get the suspension pumped sufficiently for loading onto a tilt tray. You might need to keep cranking as it's wound on.

    As to the fuel pump, I'd have thought an inline Bosch style replacement unit might be the safe bet.

  3. #3
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,609

    Default

    Worst case, I could possibly come past with a low profile jack and some Tas oak dowel from Mascot Bunnings...

    Hate to think what your parking fee might end up.

  4. #4
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Bowral
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Thanks for the offer Addo. Ill see how I go this morning. No, I'm not looking forward to the parking fees!

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! marc61's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Stamford, UK
    Posts
    330

    Default

    If you can get the rear raised up somehow, a sharp tap on the fuel pump with a big spanner or the handle of a big screwdriver will often do the trick provided the electrical connections are good. Then it's a case of replacing it.

    Mine let me down a few times, so I re-plumbed it to sit inside the box section roughly underneath where the drivers seat belt mounting is, so I could always get to it when needed. Probably a bit extreme, but I replaced it twice in 25 years.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,670

    Default

    Assuming it's electrical and the ECU is OK, you should check these things before towing.

    There are two or 3 relays on the side of the battery box that control the EFI. They are the rearmost relays and usually have plated metal cases. If you have AC, there are usually two relays ahead of them and typically green plastic cover marked SANOR. Of the metal case relays, working back, you have 1) EFI control relay, 2) Pump relay and 3) Impulse relay for cold start. Being a 1973, it may have the 3rd relay, but they were deleted in later cars and just replaced with a shunt.

    There should be a double piggy back connector on the rear terminal of the coil. If this is bad, then the EFI control relay will not operate. Check this first as it is potentially quite a dodgy connection.

    The pump relay will not work if the control relay is not working. The wire for the pump runs from the relay at the battery box across the back of the scuttle and down to the RH sill. There is a single connector you should be able to get to about a 1/3 rd way down the RH A-post to test both the voltage and that the pump operates. At least this way you should know if the pump is suspect or not.

    Fitting a different pump requires a few changes to the plumbing as the original pump has a return you will not find with later pumps.

    If you have to tow and there is not enough height to place the car on a truck where it is, then you may have to tow by rope to a better loading location. A rope around a front lower suspension arm would be wise. Trust the rear towing hooks only if you dare and know you have a solid boot! Remember, you have no brakes except the handbrake no matter how hard the driver pressed on the brake button!
    Last edited by David S; 18th August 2015 at 12:09 PM.

  7. #7
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Bowral
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Thanks Gents, Very much appreciated. Got her started and out of the carpark!

    Don't need to go through that to often

    Greg
    UFO likes this.

  8. #8
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    10,703

    Default

    So, good news indeed. But what WAS the problem and, out of interest, what are you doing about it.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  9. #9
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,318

    Default

    I can't remember if the DS has the fuel pump wire running under the drivers floor. If it does, it's possible stamping on the drivers carpet will bring the pump back to life .... That's why it's intermittant. It's a connection under the drivers carpet.

    I'd try hotwiring the pump and see if it works before you start trying to move it.....

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  10. #10
    UFO
    UFO is offline
    CitroŽn Tragic UFO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Gerringong, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    9,666

    Default

    So now you just have to take out a mortgage to pay the extra parking fees!

    Good news re the save.

    FWIW - a good "all up" truck will easily pull a DS onto the tray with no dragging these days - they're nearly flat to the ground.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  11. #11
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,508

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    I can't remember if the DS has the fuel pump wire running under the drivers floor. If it does, it's possible stamping on the drivers carpet will bring the pump back to life .... That's why it's intermittant. It's a connection under the drivers carpet.

    I'd try hotwiring the pump and see if it works before you start trying to move it.....



    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Yah, you can hotwire it and see, but an intermittent condition could be a number of factors. It could be a stuck or worn pump, a bad relay, a clog in the lines in or out, or as you point out a broken wire. Possibly, but not at all likely is a problem with the ECU (dry, cracked solder joints). You could check the connection at the ECU and see if the plug is fully home.

    Stamping your foot saucily into an inch thick carpet pad isn't going to do much in the way of electrical diagnostics. You need to pull the carpet up, THEN stamp away.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,670

    Default

    You can't get at the pump and filter without removing a couple of dozen screws to get inside the RH sill.
    It's not really suited to easily giving the pump a knock and it's also suspended in rubber within its hanger.
    The pump wire never goes inside the cabin. It runs along the lip of the scuttle and into the RH sill with the pipe bundle.
    The earth lead near the pump is also worth checking.

  13. #13
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Bowral
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Well, I got her going with luck, not talet! I followed David's advise on checking connections and tracing wires etc etc. But not sure what changed to make the pump work.

    Only a short drive back to my office in Botany. Im going to get a new pump and re wire as much as I can.

    Had the pump not worked I still dont know how I would get her out of a multi story carpark with no brakes!

    UFO: Parking wasn't as bad as I thought. $58
    Hotrodelectric likes this.

  14. #14
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Coolum Beach
    Posts
    1,876

    Default

    DS23 stranded. Advice needed-dsci0113b.jpg


    There is a perfect Bosch exchange pump for it. You just need to block the return line with a bolt. Simple as.
    If you are in need of the pump number I'll check it over the week-end. From memory it's around 100 bux. Also please install a brand new filter when you do this.
    See picture of mine.
    Hotrodelectric likes this.
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

  15. #15
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,508

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_M View Post
    Well, I got her going with luck, not talet! I followed David's advise on checking connections and tracing wires etc etc. But not sure what changed to make the pump work.

    Only a short drive back to my office in Botany. Im going to get a new pump and re wire as much as I can.

    Had the pump not worked I still dont know how I would get her out of a multi story carpark with no brakes!

    UFO: Parking wasn't as bad as I thought. $58
    Were you able to get at the pump? According to David, not at all easily, so I'm assuming not. That leads me to think your problem is under hood, prolly near or at the relays. Right next to the battery isn't exactly a friendly environment for electrical devices.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    855

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Were you able to get at the pump? According to David, not at all easily, so I'm assuming not. That leads me to think your problem is under hood, prolly near or at the relays. Right next to the battery isn't exactly a friendly environment for electrical devices.
    What is this word ?? PROLLY Is it a new version of PROBABLY ..which in all probability it is. Am I witnessing an evolution in the language or a spelling checking/predictive text violation ?

    The amazing thing about all these battery case relays is the absolute economy of wiring used. Plain bloody stupid when the battery is expected to need replacement several times in the planned life of the vehicle.

  17. #17
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund View Post
    What is this word ?? PROLLY Is it a new version of PROBABLY ..which in all probability it is. Am I witnessing an evolution in the language or a spelling checking/predictive text violation ?

    The amazing thing about all these battery case relays is the absolute economy of wiring used. Plain bloody stupid when the battery is expected to need replacement several times in the planned life of the vehicle.
    It's a bit like changing the battery in a CX ....... 10minutes to change battery.... 1hour to get everything working again
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    castlemaine
    Posts
    503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    It's a bit like changing the battery in a CX ....... 10minutes to change battery.... 1hour to get everything working again
    Well, it's saner than a SM. To replace a flat battery you have to remove the RHF road wheel. To remove the wheel you have to start the engine to jack the car up. But the battery is flat. Go figure.
    roger
    Lasya likes this.

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Wagga Wagga
    Posts
    342

    Default

    Had the same problem with our DS23efi. Fuel pump would intermittently not work. Turned out to be a blocked fuel filter located next to pump under right hand side aluminium cover ( under rear door sill). Turns out that if the car was left stationary for a period, dirt settles to bottom in the fuel filter which unblocks for a time, car goes until stirred up and filter blocks again. Get a new filter. We got the biggest round metal one that would fit in the space and threw the Bosch plastic square filter. Hope that's all it is.

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    3,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lhs2.1 View Post
    Well, it's saner than a SM. To replace a flat battery you have to remove the RHF road wheel. To remove the wheel you have to start the engine to jack the car up. But the battery is flat. Go figure.
    roger
    Seems as though you need a jump starter pack! Can you access the +ve and -ve terminals from within the engine bay?
    Cheers Gerry

  21. #21
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lhs2.1 View Post
    Well, it's saner than a SM. To replace a flat battery you have to remove the RHF road wheel. To remove the wheel you have to start the engine to jack the car up. But the battery is flat. Go figure.
    roger
    Let me guess.... You can't get jumper leads to it either ..... It sounds like an interesting car with a lot of appeal to me

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    855

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moulton2speed View Post
    Had the same problem with our DS23efi. Fuel pump would intermittently not work. Turned out to be a blocked fuel filter located next to pump under right hand side aluminium cover ( under rear door sill). Turns out that if the car was left stationary for a period, dirt settles to bottom in the fuel filter which unblocks for a time, car goes until stirred up and filter blocks again. Get a new filter. We got the biggest round metal one that would fit in the space and threw the Bosch plastic square filter. Hope that's all it is.
    While not applicable to a level car park situation it is advisable to ensure there is more than a quarter of tank left under ANY more than a road camber situation..... from an experience that left me stranded in an awkward hill park. The pick up tube isn't near long enough ( DEEP in the tank ) for heavily left cambered roads at greater than normal angles, and the result is the electric pump cannot draw fuel. OK for driving on the WRONG side of the road or parking with the right side of the transverse tank as the lowest point.

  23. #23
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    8,159

    Icon11

    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund View Post
    While not applicable to a level car park situation it is advisable to ensure there is more than a quarter of tank left under ANY more than a road camber situation..... from an experience that left me stranded in an awkward hill park. The pick up tube isn't near long enough ( DEEP in the tank ) for heavily left cambered roads at greater than normal angles, and the result is the electric pump cannot draw fuel. OK for driving on the WRONG side of the road or parking with the right side of the transverse tank as the lowest point.
    Yes, I remember being caught out a few times in my DS23iE - pulling the car onto a level surface using the starter motor and second gear

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Dťesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Dťesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Dťesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,670

    Default

    The fuel pickup in a D (and for Xantia, XM, C5 etc.) is at the RH end of the tank. Not so good for a RHD car with little fuel parked on a road heavily cambered towards the gutter road. That wouldn't be a problem with LHD cars though.
    UFO likes this.

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    855

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    The fuel pickup in a D (and for Xantia, XM, C5 etc.) is at the RH end of the tank. Not so good for a RHD car with little fuel parked on a road heavily cambered towards the gutter road. That wouldn't be a problem with LHD cars though.
    YES !!! That is what I meant to convey. David, you did it so much more efficiently !!!
    Exfrogger likes this.

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •