Original Michelins for an early CX
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  1. #1
    WRB
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    Default Original Michelins for an early CX

    $459 each for the fronts - $365 each for the rears...


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  2. #2
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    Don't do it. When I had my CX2400 some years ago, I initially fitted the correct MXV tyres and they squealed even at the sight of a corner. The inexpensive Pirelli tyres subsequently fitted were significantly better.

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I always thought a quality 215/65 14" on the front and 185/195 normal profile and the back worked very well myself
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    215? I think the car has manual steering .

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    WRB
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    I was looking at the originals because the car has manual steering. Shane, do you know how wide the originals were - I may be able to find something a hell of a lot cheaper.
    Ta

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Early cars were different front and rear from memory .... 185/80 all around would be fine though.

    what about these ... not real cheap though

    https://www.tyresales.com.au/buy/tyr...006_tyreDetail
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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    MXV-P's were on the Prestige when I bought it. Terrible, squeal, and in the wet shocking. MXV3A 195/70 were probably the best I have ever used on it but 195/70 XM2 are very nearly as good. They squeal a bit now that they are half worn but they are quiet and soft riding. 195/70 will fit on steel 5.5" steel rims, better if you have alloys that are 6". I did try 205/70 MXV3A's once but the steering is not as good as with 195 wide tyres.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Early cars were different front and rear from memory .... 185/80 all around would be fine though.

    what about these ... not real cheap though

    https://www.tyresales.com.au/buy/tyr...006_tyreDetail
    Heresy no doubt, but for all practical purposes, for me anyway, I'm OK with Bob Jane specials. I run 195/70 on the front and 175/70 at the rear, not least so one fits in the spare wheel holder.
    JohnW

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    JBN
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    I thought the early CXs were shod with XVS tyres (185 X 14 ?). A later BX with MXVs was when I decided to part with Michelin as I thought they had forgotten how to make tyres.

    I would go for the tyres in Shane's link. Mainly for the free Roadside Assist which may prove to be more valuable than the tyres themselves.

    John

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    WRB
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    Much cheaper and close enough. Not sure what size are on it at the moment (Car is still in tassie). I just want to get closer to original to take the strain of the steering

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    I had a set of Michelin 'Green' 185/65 R14 on my CX2000 Safari which were great in the beginning however they were very soft and wore out fast on the front. Eventually they all developed weak walls and started bulging and causing vibration. One blew out on the Pacific highway north of Sydney on the arduous southbound concrete section. They were made in Germany so I would've expected better quality but in the end I considered that buying Michelin's for a Citroen looks authentic but I just considered it vanity in the end.

    I decided to try cheap chinese 'Sunfull' tyres at the same size. They were about $70 each and are good in dry, wet, gravel....and are not wearing out so fast. I feel the reduced aspect (65) looks good and doesn't flex as much around fast corners, so no squeeling that I often found with higher walled tyres. There is a slightly more harsher feel over patched roadwork probably more to do with the high pressure I have in (38 PSI front, 35 PSI rear), but nobody could ever say this CX Safari rides less than hovercraft-like over most surfaces.

    Can anyone comment on the best pressures for these sort of tyres on a Safari/ Familiale? Normally I would have 36 PSI in the front but it seems to sag and much more than the Michelins.

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    Continental Comfort tyres are great. Much softer ride and very quite. I had them on a C5 and, if they were available with a higher aspect, I would run them on the CX. If I ever get all of the niggles fixed on the XM, I will definitely get a set.

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRB View Post
    Much cheaper and close enough. Not sure what size are on it at the moment (Car is still in tassie). I just want to get closer to original to take the strain of the steering
    A Renault Feugo with much bigger wider tires with low profile made the steering massively lighter. ie: standard crappy TRX's -> 215/45/ 16" made the steering much, much, much lighter. Even though you probably had twice the width of rubber on the road. I think it must be to do with sidewall flex in the tire.

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  14. #14
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRB View Post
    If I ever get all of the niggles fixed on the XM, I will definitely get a set.


    So your saying your never going to put new tires on the XM ... That cars going to be driven on some serioulsy bald tires in the future
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    You would think so Shane but, considering how often it doesn't want to go, I think the entire car will have been replaced around the tyres before they show any wear

  16. #16
    JBN
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    Stick the XM on a trailer every now and then so it can get an idea of what the world looks like. Might cure the stage fright.


    John

    Oops! I hope I haven't derailed this thread to talk about trailer tyres.

  17. #17
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    No,
    I just push it along every time I need to go somewhere. Went to Bendigo for a day around a month ago - only just got back (nice push (drive) though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WRB View Post
    I was looking at the originals because the car has manual steering. Shane, do you know how wide the originals were - I may be able to find something a hell of a lot cheaper.
    Ta
    JW (above post) was the acquaintance mentioned in the below from another thread.

    "An acquaintance has a CX originally fitted with 185/80-14 fronts & 175/80-14 rears. Currently, he has 195/70-14 fronts & 175/70-14 rears. Wheels are 5.5" wide. Knowing of my enthusiasm for Continental's PremiumContact2 he observed that the only relevant size in that type for him was 175/70-14. This led to me wondering what would be available for the car (excepting 185/80-14 XVS). The results of that thought (an unedited copy of my email to him) are below in case they are of any interest to anyone else. The 'best' in the first sentence was, in conversational context, also best for handling balance. The steering weight remark at one point was me forgetting that the CX has power steering.

    "mmm! quite complex. Some principles first:

    Best would be a 20 mm width difference f/r with profile variation (lower profile at the front) to maintain the same diameter f & r & with the rear size (the smaller width) able to be used for the spare as well. That way, if a front has a flat, then the spare is the same diameter as it (although a different tyre size) & one does not have the differential coping with continuous action to accommodate different wheel rotation speeds. It'd also be nice to have the fronts with the same gearing as the original for speedo-gearing purposes, although I find the mental adjustment on my Djet & Moke to be automatic & trivial. Best, also, for legal & insurance reasons, would be to have no tyre of lower load range than the original size. Finally, it'd be nice to not just have an at least semi-decent lateral load wet tyre but one that's semi-tautly responsive in structure. And if one is not to risk front/rear tautness difference handling oddities (of a sort which might be difficult to tyre pressure fine tune out), then having the same tyre type front & rear is the best bet. If not, then, with the CX, one would want the tauter structure at the front.

    This is a large list of criteria & 14" is a size which has a paucity of tyre sizes & types still available.

    So, your 195/70 & 175/70 combination gives you what I'm judging to be a good front/rear width difference but is rather different in diameter (175 is 4.5% less in circumference) so the 175 being used as a spare on the front is, I think, not going to be a good thing for the differential. Even if your spare is an old 185/80 (you don't specify) as, I assume, the original one was, that would be 3.7% longer than the 195/70. I'm not sure how much variation in straight continuous running a diff is happy with & for how long but if size difference can be minimised, then that'd be optimal.

    There are various sizes available in various disparate tyre types but only one tyre range satisfies each criterion. This is Hankook's K715. My appraisal of it would be that it is a sound second rank tyre but then so, at best, is every other option available except one (the Conti PC2 which is available in 175/70 only). And the K715 is available in the CX-friendliest range of sizes (185/75, 175/70, 205/70 XL, 195/75, 185/80).

    The tyre types I looked at were, apart from the aforementioned, Hankook's Ex (175/70) & K415 (195/65, 195/70,175/65), Kumho's KH17 (195/70, 195/65, 175/70,185/65), Toyo's NanoEnergy3 (175/70, 185/70 & 195/70) & Yokohama's BluEarth AE01 (175/70, 185/65, 185/70, 195/70,195/65). If you simply wished to reproduce the tyre sizes you had now then the KH17 would do that in one type (& it has its advocates - including the secretary of the Citroen Car Club of Tasmania, who has largish ones on a set of bigger alloy wheels on his CX). So, would the AE01 or NE3. Or, a type mix with the best types available & with the structure tautness roughly in balance would be KH 415 fronts & PC2 rears. Were I to be keeping the current sizes then I think that I'd choose that mix. But then, faced with the same choice, I wouldn't choose your current size mix at all.

    Assuming that your original fronts were 185/80, I'd fit 205/70 (only 1.5% shorter circumference). This serves three functions: it gives you more tyre to battle nose plough (without, I'd predict, being much heavier in steering than the current 195/70); it gives you a front size which it is easy to match to a rear size of similar circumference (& that rear size would fit in the nose as a spare); & it satisfies the original load rating (as would a matching circumference rear - something impossible to decently manage with a 195/70 front as 175/80 is no longer available in anything decent). The K715 205/70 is also an XL (extra load) tyre which usually means two sidewall plies not one. Although installed for increased load rating, these plies have the benefit here of being crisper in response than their single plied counterparts of the same tyre type. They also ride less well but that is not going to much matter in a CX.

    So, what rears? Happily for circumference-matching, load rating & 20 mm width difference reasons, according to Hankook's web site anyway, the K715 comes in a 185/80. It also comes in a 185/75 (1.4% shorter in circumference than a 205/70 as offered to the 185/80's 1.5% longer). Each would do apart from a mild load rating query for the 185/75 but it'd be the same as the 175/80 rears which were probably fitted when the car was new.

    So, I'd fit 205/70 fronts & either 185/80 or 185/75 (the latter would be my choice) rears in Hanhook's K715. The rear size would fit as a spare or, if you didn't want to buy 5 (& rotate the three 185s through the rear to avoid "unused spare" idiocy), then you could just get two 185s & put whatever you like as a spare & if you have a front flat, then put a correct circumference rear on the front & the spare on the rear. More potential fussing come flat time but less outlay & less rotational fussing. It's what I'd do.

    So, in summary, I'd get Hanhook's K715 in 205/70 XL & 185/75 (2 of).

    Two useful web links:

    For tyre size comparisons:
    Tire Size Comparison

    For magazine tyre test summaries on tyres which you have on a medium list:
    Tyres by Brand - TyreReviews

    The Tyre Reviews link takes you to a page listing tyre brands & models. Navigate to the tyre you want & the relevant link for, say, the K715, & it'll list links connecting you to available magazine tyre tests on that tyre. It also lists owner reviews but these are to be read with caution (I take most notice of those written by those who self categorise their driving style as "spirited").

    Phew! I hope that that is of some use to you."

    cheers! Peter
    Last edited by 4cvg; 1st August 2015 at 11:54 PM.

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    Thanks Peter,

    I am going to need some time to digest. I had decided to go with the Conti 185/70...

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRB View Post
    Thanks Peter,

    I am going to need some time to digest. I had decided to go with the Conti 185/70...
    The rolling diameter is wrong .... It's going to be low geared and your speedo will under read. you need 185/80 ... 195/75, 205/65. My preference is anything round under the back and 215/65 under the nose

    seeya,
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    I did a search on 185/80 and came up with a lot of Van tyres....
    Last edited by WRB; 31st July 2015 at 11:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    The rolling diameter is wrong .... It's going to be low geared and your speedo will under read. you need 185/80 ... 195/75, 205/65. My preference is anything round under the back and 215/65 under the nose

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Not quite right (a typo, I suspect). By reference to 185/80-14, the following sizes are under-geared by the stated percentages.

    185/70 - 5.7%

    205/65 - 4.6%

    205/70 - 1.5%

    215/65 - 1.4%

    Anyway, one won't find anything much (or anything at all) in 205/65 & I can't see anything reputable on offer in 215/65. What were you suggesting as a tyre type?

    Personally, I find such under-gearing to be a non-event as one swiftly makes the mental adjustment (my Moke is under-geared by 9.4% & my Djet, coincidentally, by the same 9.4%).

    cheers! Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by WRB View Post
    I did a search on 185/80 and came up with a lot of Van tyres....
    As I stated, Hankook's K715 is available; a copy & paste from Hanhook's website follows:

    185/80R14T

    Relatedly, the only Conti available in 185/70 is the Comfort Contact 5. It's a soggy tyre with wet-grip below Continental's usual high standards. It's not one I'd recommend. If 185/70 is your chosen size, then I'd fit Hanhook's new Ex (I omitted to mention its availablity in 185/70 in my above quoted email but it is available - from the website: 185/70R14T). It looks very promising despite being a low rolling resistance design.

    Below is a copy & paste of an analysis of it which I did in a 175/70-13 thread in the Renault forum. The vehicles in question there (R12 family) make much the same demands on a tyre as the CX.

    "..... an intriguing new candidate might be worth consideration - to wit: Hankook's Kinergy Ex.

    Yes it's an Eco tyre designed for low rolling resistance & that is a priority in some tension with handling crispness & with wet grip (in compound sensitive conditions). Structure & compound are the key parameters for achieving low R.R.. The Ex is intriguing nonetheless as it seems to promise to have decent levels of both crispness & wet grip.

    One of the major influences on handling crispness is sidewall design & the key is to have low slip angles by having forces applied at the rim transferred to the tread without excessive twisting distortion of the sidewall. Usual ways of achieving this are two.

    One is by means of so called "flippers" - sidewall fabric turn-ups at the bead or extra fabric folds inserted at the bead area. Although not designed with handling crispness in mind, "extra load" variants of tyres usually have two sidewall plies, not one, & this extra layer can add torsional stiffness to the sidewall in much the manner of a flipper.

    The other is by so-called "fillers" - the wedge of rubber in the bead area between the sidewall ply & the turn-up of it after going around the bead wire. Vary the dimensions & stiffness of the rubber filler & one thereby affects the torsional stiffness of the sidewall.

    The Ex is intriguing in that it extends the sidewall ply turn up in the manner of a super long flipper to form a second sidewall ply. Rationale is apparently sidewall strength in resisting impacts. This is an odd feature in a low R.R. tyre as, when low R.R. is achieved by way of structure, the sidewalls are usually very light to reduce energy wasteful intra-tyre heat generation by way of flexing. They are thus vulnerable to damage & this is one reason why some of the European "green" tyres are not coming to rough, tough Australia (we get the Pirelli P1 "ordinaire" for instance & not the more eco-orientated P1 Verde). Anyway, the Ex has effectively two ply sidewalls & that can only be to the good for handling crispness even if that's not their design purpose.

    It also has hard rubber fillers. This time explicitly meant for achieving handling crispness.

    The Hankook propaganda sheet also explicitly talks about crisp response. To see such a matter given such prominence is a bit unusual in this class of tyre; so this is promising, especially when one can see how this might be actually achieved given the structure.

    I spend some time on this because tyre sidewall torsional tautness is an important trait for the R12 family's handling feel & response.

    Hankook also make wet grip claims, particularly under braking (as is now commonplace, they use silica in place of some carbon black as a compound filler although the detail of this is clearly directed more towards lowering R.R. whilst marginally improving lateral wet grip compared to their unidentified reference tyre).

    No test results of the Ex at this stage but the related (older) Kinergy Eco K425 & the Optimo K415 & K715 have generally tested well. So, all very promising looking: there's some chance of an important size for many froggers having available a tyre that both grips well enough in the wet & handles crisply. I have no direct experience of it but I suspect that it's the class leader (of what's available in Australia anyway) on these two parameters."


    cheers! Peter
    Last edited by 4cvg; 1st August 2015 at 01:13 AM.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    The difference in rolling circumference relates to speed thus:

    CX Auto

    185/80 37km/h/1,000rpm
    195/70 35km/h/1,000rpm

    The other point to note is 195/70 14 were fitted standard to CXs in the latter years. Steering is noticeably better on 195/70 than anything wider. However the fact that we are talking about an early manual steer CX it would be sacrilege to fit anything wider or lower profile. Probably your best bet is to stick with 185/80 and pump them up. Also make sure everything in the front suspension and steering is perfect so you will be able to drive it. The only manual steer CX I have driven was very hard work.
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    WRB
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    It also makes sense considering that it only has 4 gears. I don't know what size tyres it has at the moment (picking it up from tassie later this month) but, the engine was over revving at 110kmh. The steering is precise with only a hint of a shake at 110KMH (probably a slightly worn knuckle) just requires a fair amount of work at low speeds, reversing etc

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