The Arse End of a Light 15 (and other ignorant questions)
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Thread: The Arse End of a Light 15 (and other ignorant questions)

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    Default The Arse End of a Light 15 (and other ignorant questions)

    I have a French built Light 15 that I am, under supervision, doing the donkey work on, prior to a full, ground up resto. (See Resto forum)
    I have discovered two bogged up holes in the back panels, about in line with the top of the boot lid, but, in no pictures of ANY Light 15s that I can find, can I find indicators in this position.

    Am I looking in the wrong places or what??
    All comments greatly appreciated.

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    In 1952 The C pillars of an 11BL received teardrop shaped indicators. They were fitted about two inches up from the waist moulding and abut 12 inches back from the door frame. Some of the small boot cars received them in the transition phase but these were very rare and were all LHD as far as I know!
    Where are these bogged up holes in your car? A picture would be good!
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    Cheers Gerry

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exvet View Post
    I have a French built Light 15 that I am, under supervision, doing the donkey work on, prior to a full, ground up resto. (See Resto forum)
    I have discovered two bogged up holes in the back panels, about in line with the top of the boot lid, but, in no pictures of ANY Light 15s that I can find, can I find indicators in this position.

    Am I looking in the wrong places or what??
    All comments greatly appreciated.
    In a quick search of a Traction book I found a couple of pics of Robri accessory lamps that went in approximately that position, more in line with the rear glass on the corner of the sail panel. They were small and round. Do you have any pics of the location where you found the holes?
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Will attempt to photograph said holes and post them here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by exvet View Post
    Will attempt to photograph said holes and post them here.

    Hi exvet

    If these holes were for lights and look factory then I would suggest that they were for "parking lamps" used in Europe and did become standard especially in France for parking in such narrow streets.They were placed on each side of the vehicle rear side and only one side was illuminated at a time depending on which side of the street the car was parked on.

    Maybe this could explain it

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    Hi Jim,
    I think you should also consider that the car is 60 odd years old and probably owned by 'several' owners. It is quite likely or even probable that someone may have decided to update to newfangled blinkers at some stage or the like and fitted them there. Same thing happens with the tail lights too. VW types were popular on lots of old cars. Any thing is possible on these old cars.
    Jaahn
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I like seeing photos of arse ends...... some piccies might help
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    Problem solved.
    I have found just ONE photo of a Light 15 with indicator lights in the right position.
    Page 92 of Jon Presnell's excellent tome, "Citroen Traction Avant", which was given to me by a member of this forum.
    I should have thought of this great reference earlier, but the cold has obviously numbed my usually nimble grey cells.
    Strangely. I can find only the single photo of these embellishments. All the other arse ends are smooth and unblemished.

    Now I'm on the lookout for the correct diamond shaped mounts. Anybody got any??

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Try CTA!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by exvet View Post
    Problem solved.
    I have found just ONE photo of a Light 15 with indicator lights in the right position.
    Page 92 of Jon Presnell's excellent tome, "Citroen Traction Avant", which was given to me by a member of this forum.
    I should have thought of this great reference earlier, but the cold has obviously numbed my usually nimble grey cells.
    Strangely. I can find only the single photo of these embellishments. All the other arse ends are smooth and unblemished.

    Now I'm on the lookout for the correct diamond shaped mounts. Anybody got any??
    I've seen the odd Traction with amber flashers exactly as described in this post and exactly the same as my 1951 Renault 4CV, as illustrated.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The Arse End of a Light 15 (and other ignorant questions)-pc260131.jpg  
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by exvet View Post
    Problem solved.
    I have found just ONE photo of a Light 15 with indicator lights in the right position.
    Page 92 of Jon Presnell's excellent tome, "Citroen Traction Avant", which was given to me by a member of this forum.
    I should have thought of this great reference earlier, but the cold has obviously numbed my usually nimble grey cells.
    Strangely. I can find only the single photo of these embellishments. All the other arse ends are smooth and unblemished.

    Now I'm on the lookout for the correct diamond shaped mounts. Anybody got any??

    Hi exvet

    For reference also check out Shannons auctions last year winter 2014 auction had an 11bl sold with the lights you are looking for although i believe these would have been added. They look similar to VW beetle of the 60's

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    Relatives of mine bought a 4CV Renault in '51 with the indicators in JohnW's photo. They worked better than any other types I have seen in this position on French cars, & were quite a novelty at the time ,but not a legal substitute for hand signals. I notice that the little parking lamp below the amber lens is painted over on JohnW's example.

    Richard

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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenut View Post
    Relatives of mine bought a 4CV Renault in '51 with the indicators in JohnW's photo. They worked better than any other types I have seen in this position on French cars, & were quite a novelty at the time ,but not a legal substitute for hand signals. I notice that the little parking lamp below the amber lens is painted over on JohnW's example.

    Richard
    Well spotted. It WAS painted over.

    These appear brand new on ebay France from time to time, but I reckon I have a spare pair, one new and one used probably, and certainly two lenses.

    Exvet, give me a couple of days to dig them out and I'll confirm.
    JohnW

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    Renault R8 1965
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    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
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    The Arse End of a Light 15 (and other ignorant questions)-citroen-traction-avant.jpg
    Here is a post 1952 with factory fitted indicators!
    The chrome trims are Robri accessories! All can be purchased from CTA Netherlands!
    Last edited by gerrypro; 8th July 2015 at 04:29 PM.
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    Cheers Gerry

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    OK, I have found one base, old but intact. PM me an address and I'll flick it over. Do you want a glass to go with it?

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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    I have one of those "idiot questions" that I promised in the header. The vResto boys have ignored it!!'
    Did 1952 Citroen Light 15s built in France have timber reinforcement to the front pillars??
    "Delphine" has some very ancient looking timber, of indeterminate species because of layers of paint, etc, beside the vertical pillars supporting the windscreen .

    For those who don't follow the Resto thread, it has been decided that I will remove as much of the old finish as I can from the stripped out body, using stripper &/or abrasive discs, but steering clear of any "lead wiping", which will be attended to by "The Oracle".
    Guards, Doors etc will be sand blasted.
    There is a bit of "metal moth", but, considering the age of the car, and how I neglected it for a few years, it is in remarkably sound condition.
    I intend to change the colour to maroon with black guards etc as the current blue looks far too drab for a sexy little French miss!!

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    It is not timber reinforcement! It merely is a surface for the B pillar trim to sit against. The trim board is nailed through the material covering into the twisted paper housed in recesses at the edges of the ply panel. On a Slough car the trim panel for the B pillar is screwed to the ply panel in three places and only nailed at the very top part that sits under the headlining. The ply is about 6mm thick!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Merci.

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    I'm not sure whether I should start a new thread for this,but, nothing ventured...................

    I am having trouble with the provenence of my light 15. I took the plates off yesterday and gave them a good going over with steel wool, so can now read the numbers, BUT, I have another pair of plates, given to me at the same time by the vendor, without comment.How do I know which are the genuine ones??
    I have been referring back to Jon Pressnells book, and his time line does not seem to fit the details of Delphine, which, as all the basics are there, and the car will eventually look the part, does not worry me unduly, although I would like to restore her to as original a condition as possible!(I have a chrome, Slough grille that will be sand blasted and painted, eg).
    The anomalies, and the poor standard of
    resto are at odds with the bloke I bought the car from, an absolute Citroen nut, who seemed to know all there was to know about the marque, and have a deep affection for them!
    If anybody has any hints on how to accurately age my girl, I'd appreciate your input.
    Love,
    The Dolt.

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exvet View Post
    I'm not sure whether I should start a new thread for this,but, nothing ventured...................

    I am having trouble with the provenence of my light 15. I took the plates off yesterday and gave them a good going over with steel wool, so can now read the numbers, BUT, I have another pair of plates, given to me at the same time by the vendor, without comment.How do I know which are the genuine ones??
    I have been referring back to Jon Pressnells book, and his time line does not seem to fit the details of Delphine, which, as all the basics are there, and the car will eventually look the part, does not worry me unduly, although I would like to restore her to as original a condition as possible!(I have a chrome, Slough grille that will be sand blasted and painted, eg).
    The anomalies, and the poor standard of
    resto are at odds with the bloke I bought the car from, an absolute Citroen nut, who seemed to know all there was to know about the marque, and have a deep affection for them!
    If anybody has any hints on how to accurately age my girl, I'd appreciate your input.
    Love,
    The Dolt.
    Dear Dolt:
    One suggestion I have to age your car is cut it open across the midsection and count the rings.

    Short of that, how many layers of paint did you remove from the plates? Can you see how many layers of paint compare to that on the car in that location? I'm assuming the other plates don't match up numerically to the ones you removed. The ones you were given- are they red, or black? The red ones IIRC are the engine number plates.
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    Fellow Frogger! Trading Estate's Avatar
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    Chassis no should do the trick. There is a list available I think I have one. Most of those 11bls are 51/52
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    Can we have some pictures showing dashboard, engine bay, location of chassis number plates, etc We may then be able to help with some positive ID!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Dear Hotrod,
    You are obviously a poseur or you would know that there is not much left of the midsection.It has been hollowed out so passengers can sit in it!
    Gerry,
    The Plates have no colour, are now gleaming silver aluminium.
    Will endeavour to post some photos but most of my promises of photos are as hollow as Delphine;s midsection.


    Thanks for input,
    The Dolt.

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    Hi Jim,
    The answer lies in the chassy number, or referred to as the coque?? number or hull number. It is stamped on a boss welded to one of the front horns beside the engine. I forget exactly where ! The "Book" should say. That number was put there when the hull was finished at the factory but before the car was finally assembled. However the cars were not sitting around for long. The "book" has the years for these numbers.
    I seem to remember Laurie gave an estimate for the year after we were up there. I could look for it and see if we still have it.
    John Jaahn

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=exvet;1368104]
    Gerry,
    The Plates have no colour, are now gleaming silver aluminium.
    Will endeavour to post some photos but most of my promises of photos are as hollow as Delphine;s midsection.

    Are they Embossed and stamped with numbers 'SERIE and TYPE' or are they etched and stamped with the production number!
    The first type is French and the second type is English! In both cases the production number should still be readable!
    English plates attach to the upper left fire wall and Paris plates attach to the top face of the right "jambonneau" just under the bonnet closing line near the rear bonnet catch!
    BTW, Red engine plates are from ID/DS the TA engine plates were always the same green as the engine.
    Also Slough cars are referred to as Light 15, Big 15, and Big 6. Paris cars are 11BL, 11BN. and 15CV. L stands for Legere, N stands for Normale,
    Cheers Gerry

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