1966 Model Year DS21
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Thread: 1966 Model Year DS21

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    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
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    Default 1966 Model Year DS21

    Hi Guys,

    I’m just looking for some information on the 66 model year... this may be in Reynolds and the like, but I've not found it yet...

    1. Did the DS have a brake pad wear warning light the same as later models to 1969. The light was located just under the strip speedo next to the hydraulic warning light.

    2. Did they have the head light levelling system in 66 or is that only 67…? If so does anyone have any under bonnet pics of it at all…?

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    Are the wires and tubes and rods much the same as the twin headlight system or exactly the same - could much of a twin headlight system be used on a single headlighter...?

    3. 66 should still have the battery on the left or did late 66 models get it on the right – or is it strictly 67 model year on…?

    4. Are the front chassis forks the same from 62 to 67 (and even 68) or is it only the short stroke cars 66, 67 and maybe 68…? I though they looked exactly the same as the twin headlight forks but are shorter. I thought (perhaps incorrectly) that the reason twin headlight guards could be fitted to a second front car was the fact that 68 had the earlier shorter forks, but longer bumper mounts to accommodate the longer twin headlight guards. These longer bumper mounts could be used to mount the late guards to an early car.

    I know nothing about the front end of second front cars so the above could all be rubbish – there are just so few in DS form here to look at.

    Many thanks in advance,

    Mark...

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi Guys,

    I’m just looking for some information on the 66 model year... this may be in Reynolds and the like, but I've not found it yet...

    1. Did the DS have a brake pad wear warning light the same as later models to 1969. The light was located just under the strip speedo next to the hydraulic warning light.

    2. Did they have the head light levelling system in 66 or is that only 67…? If so does anyone have any under bonnet pics of it at all…?

    Are the wires and tubes and rods much the same as the twin headlight system or exactly the same - could much of a twin headlight system be used on a single headlighter...?

    3. 66 should still have the battery on the left or did late 66 models get it on the right – or is it strictly 67 model year on…?

    4. Are the front chassis forks the same from 62 to 67 (and even 68) or is it only the short stroke cars 66, 67 and maybe 68…? I though they looked exactly the same as the twin headlight forks but are shorter. I thought (perhaps incorrectly) that the reason twin headlight guards could be fitted to a second front car was the fact that 68 had the earlier shorter forks, but longer bumper mounts to accommodate the longer twin headlight guards. These longer bumper mounts could be used to mount the late guards to an early car.

    I know nothing about the front end of second front cars so the above could all be rubbish – there are just so few in DS form here to look at.

    Many thanks in advance,

    Mark...
    As if you don't already have enough projects

    Here's a pic of a car identified as a '66 with leveling lights. . .



    Cheers
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1966 Model Year DS21-self-levelling-1966.jpg  
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    The manual shows pictures of setting up self-levelling lights in a 2nd front. The leveling arms and cross bar are apparently quite different to the post-67 cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    The manual shows pictures of setting up self-levelling lights in a 2nd front. The leveling arms and cross bar are apparently quite different to the post-67 cars.
    Yes, excellent pics and info in 518 - parts do look very different, looks to include the headlight damper too.

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
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    Many thanks guys - they are quite different... that picture is gold too.
    I can partially see the front fork.... which looks just like a twin headlight car.

    Cheers,

    Mark...

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Also confirms leveling lights were fitted on the '66 model. . .



    Cheers
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1966 Model Year DS21-66-leveling-lights-op540.jpg  
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Hi Mark

    Getting to two of your questions: for the brake pad indicator, it depended on what model you had. DX and DJ, yes. All others, no. I did find reference in a US DS owners manual that it was the 109hp models that had this feature. I found no reference at all in the UK manuals I looked at, but those were all ID and DS19, not DS21. On battery location, that was a '67-'69 thing. I did find one pic that located the battery on the left in a UK '67 manual, but I suspect that was a stock photo that was recycled from earlier.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Many thanks for looking all that up Bill. It's much appreciated...
    I'm guessing DX so it would have the warning light.
    I just had some feeling that the battery transition was not straight from 67 but then it could just be my addled brain acting up again....
    Cheers,
    Mark...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Many thanks for looking all that up Bill. It's much appreciated...
    I'm guessing DX so it would have the warning light.
    I just had some feeling that the battery transition was not straight from 67 but then it could just be my addled brain acting up again....
    Cheers,
    Mark...
    Hi Mark,

    Just noticed this car that has just sold on an Italian forum - '66 DS21M
    DS 21 M 1966 VENDESI



    Note, left hand battery and 6 and 2 fuse set-up.

    Cheers
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1966 Model Year DS21-66-ds21.jpg  
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
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    Many thanks Chris - it would be interesting to see if RHD cars got the same 2 fusebox setup....

    Cheers,

    Mark...

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    I have a '66 DS21 BVM which was originally exported to NZ. I'll check the points you've raised in the morning when it's light. Certainly the battery is still on the left.
    roger
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    Many thanks Roger - much appreciated...

    The trouble with Reynolds (as much as I enjoy reading it) is there is no table of changes - it's all inter dispersed in the text which is nice to read, but makes it hard to look one or two details up...

    Also the RHD cars throw up a lot of wobblies....

    Cheers,

    Mark...

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Posted from nuancierds.fr:




    Sept. 65 (AM 66)
    DS 21 only. graduation until 200km / h, and the appearance of the reference to stopping distances This specificity of the DS 21 lasted until 70 vintage (where round tables DS / IDs will now all the indication of the stopping distance).



    Finally, the central red LED (number 7), which serves as hydraulic alert on all models, also serves on DS21 only, to detect the wear of the brake pad (there are two small lights under the light!).
    Under the central red light, there has also two small lights on counters DS19 ... but one that leads to platelets is not connected (in fact the harness is different)!


    Mark, when you say Reynolds book, do you mean his and DeLange's "Original DS" book?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhs2.1 View Post
    I have a '66 DS21 BVM which was originally exported to NZ. I'll check the points you've raised in the morning when it's light. Certainly the battery is still on the left.
    roger
    Hi Roger,
    You must have one of the nicest collections of Citroen in Aus - certainly those on my wish list

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
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    Hi Bill - many thanks for the pics, it helps a lot...!

    Yes - I mean the Reynolds/Delange book...

    I'm just wondering now given that ID's have a single wide light, I'm sure my Dad's 68 Safari had brake pad wiring...? Perhaps it has a DS gauge cluster...?

    Lastly - can you tell me how I can get one of those lovely rippled alloy upper dashboard backing pieces in RHD.... that would be just fabulous...

    Cheers,

    Mark...

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    I think all '68s had the pad indicator lamp. This one one of those items that it was easy enough to spend the extra 5FF, and charge the customer an extra 30FF. By this point in time, most of the parts were in place anyway.

    For the dash trim- I wouldn't have the foggiest where to get one. If no one else here pipes up, maybe try Darrin at Citroen Classics? If anyone, he should be able to point you in the correct direction. Seems to me they should exist- the later (post '65) RHDs were built in Paris. What does the car have in it now?
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Hi Bill,

    That's good to know about 68's, and now I think about it, it has the stopping distances too which screams DS.

    No RHD D's got the rippled alloy dash plate AFAIK... I was just being a smart ass. It's just pressed steel. I'd love to have one 3D printed if it was possible...

    Cheers,

    Mark...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi Bill,

    That's good to know about 68's, and now I think about it, it has the stopping distances too which screams DS.

    No RHD D's got the rippled alloy dash plate AFAIK... I was just being a smart ass. It's just pressed steel. I'd love to have one 3D printed if it was possible...

    Cheers,

    Mark...
    Did someone say 3D printing?
    No problems creating the CADD data, that one's an easy one. 3D printing is not yet mature enough to deliver this kind of part, too many subtleties, but it's getting closer all the time.

    SF

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    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
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    Hi Scott,

    It would be great to be able to simply scan a LHD one and print it in reverse...!

    Can they print "alloy" at all...? It is the ribbing that would be the issue for the printer...?

    Cheers,

    Mark...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi Scott,

    It would be great to be able to simply scan a LHD one and print it in reverse...!

    Can they print "alloy" at all...? It is the ribbing that would be the issue for the printer...?

    Cheers,

    Mark...

    Hi Mark,
    Materials is a mixed bag as they say. Plastics are becoming pretty well comprehensive. Metals, It's strange you can get titanium (see photo) Illustrated is an M5 screw printed to a resolution of 20 microns. It's hollow with a snowflake pattern down its core and has a pattern of cross-drilled holes 0.5mm diameter, the walls about .6mm thick. 1966 Model Year DS21-capture1.jpg
    Sheet metal parts are difficult, not to reproduce a lookalike but to achieve sheetmetal properties with any integrity. It's only a matter of time though. What is possible is to print a part (in plastic), Use this to cast a plaster of paris nest then using a process called the Guerin process (I think I've got the name correct) form the part from sheet metal. A lot of aircraft cowlings are formed this way. Just depends how desperate you are for the part. Personally I'd hang fire, this is a very fast developing field.

    What you do need to do is lock the original part in 3D data while they are available. A part as simple as that can be modelled with freeware such as Google Sketchup. There are others.

    SF

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Hi Roger,
    You must have one of the nicest collections of Citroen in Aus - certainly those on my wish list

    Cheers
    Chris
    Thanks Chris,
    the Citroen fleet consists of '57 Slough DS19, '58 Slough ID19, '66 DS21 BVM, '73 US-spec SM, 2CV/GS hybrid, and a '51 11BN on agistment. Sounds good but the reality is that they are all "works in progress" and none are currently drivable.
    My daily driver is a '80 Porsche 911SC, and my wife punts a Land Rover Disco.
    roger
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Many thanks Roger - much appreciated...

    The trouble with Reynolds (as much as I enjoy reading it) is there is no table of changes - it's all inter dispersed in the text which is nice to read, but makes it hard to look one or two details up...

    Also the RHD cars throw up a lot of wobblies....

    Cheers,

    Mark...
    I've attached some (I hope) relevant shots of my '66 DS21. This car is chassis number 4467301 and was first registered in Auckland on 24th June 1966. It has the battery on the left and a six fusebox on the firewall. It was originally fitted with the levelling headlamps but unfortunately most of that mechanism has been removed. I cant comment on the front longerons as I dont have a 3rd nose car to compare. Trust this helps.
    roger
    1966 Model Year DS21-ds21dash_1.jpg1966 Model Year DS21-ds21batterybox_1.jpg1966 Model Year DS21-ds21fusebox_1.jpg1966 Model Year DS21-ds21lightcables_1.jpg1966 Model Year DS21-ds21leftguard_1.jpg

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    Hi Roger,
    Many thanks for taking the time to take those pics. They help...!
    All the best,
    Mark...

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    OK I had time to think about this overnight.
    Time to also correct mistakes in my last post. The Guerin process I suggested is correct and pertinent to this part. The plaster of Paris die was NOT correct. That's for high energy forming (explosion forming).

    The Guerin process is used for low volume complex parts like sheet metal aircraft parts like I said and in fact may have been used to manufacture this part in the first place. The process involves a press, a 4 tonne fly press is sufficient for this, a big block of rubber and a shaped plywood or similar material former. This process was incidentally used for stainless steel sink manufacture.

    The process involves placing the part to be formed on the rubber bed and belting (technical term) the plywood die into the top face of the metal. Rubber is technically a liquid and therefore not compressible which results in the sheet metal being trapped between a rock and a hard place and extruding into shape.

    As you can imagine there is a limit to how much forming can be achieved but the part in question is easy.

    That said it means that 3D printing could in fact be useful. Instead of printing the part, print the forming surface (usually the presentation face) and press it into the sandwiched metal and Bob's your uncle. Print material would need to be something rigid, not a compliant plastic.

    Print costs are based on volume of material used so a tool like this would be printed as a thin surface part backed on to a substantial backing plate. All do-able and quite fun with a useable part at the end of it.

    If anybody's prepared to give it a go send me the part to copy and I'll CADD model it so it is at least 3D recorded for posterity.

    SF

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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Many thanks for looking all that up Bill. It's much appreciated...
    I'm guessing DX so it would have the warning light.
    I just had some feeling that the battery transition was not straight from 67 but then it could just be my addled brain acting up again....
    Cheers,
    Mark...
    You've got to love conflicting information, you may be correct Mark



    DS ID club de France,évolution de la citroën DS.
    DS-ID club de France, évolution de la citroën ID.

    Some excellent info on the evolution '55 - '75 ID and DS

    Cheers
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1966 Model Year DS21-66-ds21-battery.jpg  
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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