Will an ID gear box fit to big 6 motor?
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Thread: Will an ID gear box fit to big 6 motor?

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Will an ID gear box fit to big 6 motor?

    As above as it would be good to have a 4 speed in the Traction

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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Definitely not. You don't need a 4 speed with the sixes torque
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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    I have seen one Big 6 car fitted with an ID engine and gearbox. Such a shame really. The unit looked lost in amongst all that bonnet space. I hope that the owner eventually converts it back the way it should be!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I think you guys are mis reading this.... He wants to know if an ID 'box will bolt upto the big 6 cylinder boat anchor of an engine

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    I think you guys are mis reading this.... He wants to know if an ID 'box will bolt upto the big 6 cylinder boat anchor of an engine

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    PS: Yes I'm just envious
    The answer was given in the 2nd post. Definitely no way!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    The answer was given in the 2nd post. Definitely no way!
    Oh, there's a way. Nearly 40 years in, I've learned not to say "NO WAY!!". But it depends on how much money Sherman is willing to spend/blow/burn.
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    Thanks fellows the answer is "no"
    But it will be good to see abig six back on the road
    I will be asking more questions I am sure

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    I must say that when driving the Big 6 I find the 3rd gear okay. It is more the light 15 4 cylinder motor that one is looking for a 4th gear. That's just me. The Big 6 is pretty quick.

    John

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman View Post
    As above as it would be good to have a 4 speed in the Traction

  9. #9
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman View Post
    Thanks fellows the answer is "no"
    But it will be good to see abig six back on the road
    I will be asking more questions I am sure
    Are you aware of any problems with the box?
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Oh, there's a way. Nearly 40 years in, I've learned not to say "NO WAY!!". But it depends on how much money Sherman is willing to spend/blow/burn.
    Bill, even if you could mate an ID box together with its bell housing and clutch the overall length of the power unit would mean that the starter ring gear would be nearly back against the front seat. Conversely one would have to move the suspension cradle forward at least ten inches! Have a look at the space saving moves they made with the triple level shafted gear box that drives back onto a diff that has been tucked back under the sump and clutch housing. This is the reason that the six motor nearly fills the bonnet space. It has been raised much higher than the four cylinder unit just to accommodate the diff!
    Cheers Gerry

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    An alternative may be to look at a higher ratio C&P set. Someone in the UK was making them a few yeas ago, so that may be worth investigating. I doubt it would be cheap if it remains available.

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    The D and 6 gearboxes are not remotely similar. The D transmission sits in front of the engine. The 6's more under the bell housing.

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Bill, even if you could mate an ID box together with its bell housing and clutch the overall length of the power unit would mean that the starter ring gear would be nearly back against the front seat. Conversely one would have to move the suspension cradle forward at least ten inches! Have a look at the space saving moves they made with the triple level shafted gear box that drives back onto a diff that has been tucked back under the sump and clutch housing. This is the reason that the six motor nearly fills the bonnet space. It has been raised much higher than the four cylinder unit just to accommodate the diff!
    That was just me being a bit of a smartass. It's just that I've seen some exquisitely machined pieces fitted to a streetrod, but the question remains "to what end?". A lot of the stuff at that level of building is more about spending the max amount of money so you can brag about it to your friends at Cars & Coffee next week.

    Still, it is possible. But you WILL spend rather a lot more than you anticipated. And there is no guarantee you will still have something recognizable as a 15-6 at the end.
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    That was just me being a bit of a smartass. It's just that I've seen some exquisitely machined pieces fitted to a streetrod, but the question remains "to what end?". A lot of the stuff at that level of building is more about spending the max amount of money so you can brag about it to your friends at Cars & Coffee next week.

    Still, it is possible. But you WILL spend rather a lot more than you anticipated. And there is no guarantee you will still have something recognizable as a 15-6 at the end.
    You are thinking of building a 22cv right .... there would be plenty of room length wise then .... possibly not width wise though



    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    You are thinking of building a 22cv right .... there would be plenty of room length wise then .... possibly not width wise though



    seeya,
    Shane L.
    That's the Dutch reproduction, isn't it? So cool. The Dutch are mind-bogglingly crazy with Citroen. We're lucky to have them around.
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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    That's the Dutch reproduction, isn't it? So cool. The Dutch are mind-bogglingly crazy with Citroen. We're lucky to have them around.
    I love that car. It was built on a 1935 11A normale base. This is appropriate though because legend has it the the remaining 22CVs were converted back to 11A Normales and sold to workers in the Javel factory!
    Oh where, oh where to find an 11A Normale on which to work this fantastic transformation ?
    Cheers Gerry

  17. #17
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    I love that car. It was built on a 1935 11A normale base. This is appropriate though because legend has it the the remaining 22CVs were converted back to 11A Normales and sold to workers in the Javel factory!
    Oh where, oh where to find an 11A Normale on which to work this fantastic transformation ?
    Talking about having to peel out a wad to make your own transmission. That one would have been difficult enough because of the layout. From what little I've been able to get on La 22, the motors were supposedly a repurposed Ford V8, probably the 60hp. I would love to see a diary on the build for this car. Dashboard forward that's nothing but custom, hand-made goodness.
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    Fellow Frogger! Jinandfonic's Avatar
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    Apart from the DS turning 60 this year, so too the small block Chevy V8.
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    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Bill, even if you could mate an ID box together with its bell housing and clutch the overall length of the power unit would mean that the starter ring gear would be nearly back against the front seat.
    So Gerry a 23 5-speed would be out of the question then...?

    8-)

    Cheers,

    Mark....

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    Gerry, I fail to see your argument here. The SIX is six cylinders long, the V8 conversion or a DS engine would only be 4 cylinder length...so plenty of room BEHIND the engine. The big problem would be the driveshafts ( and in the case of the DS conversion what to do for driveshafts ( a throw $$$ at it solution no doubt )... maybe just run the D driveshafts without any brake discs and rely on the 6's brakes in the wheels. The width of the DS gearbox would be a concern because of the sideways dimensions for the inboard discs.

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund View Post
    Gerry, I fail to see your argument here. The SIX is six cylinders long, the V8 conversion or a DS engine would only be 4 cylinder length...so plenty of room BEHIND the engine. The big problem would be the driveshafts ( and in the case of the DS conversion what to do for driveshafts ( a throw $$$ at it solution no doubt )... maybe just run the D driveshafts without any brake discs and rely on the 6's brakes in the wheels. The width of the DS gearbox would be a concern because of the sideways dimensions for the inboard discs.
    The discussion is about an ID box mated to a six cylinder engine. An ID or DS motor and box is easily done so is a V8 motor! Please read each post carefully!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinandfonic View Post
    Apart from the DS turning 60 this year, so too the small block Chevy V8.
    I see a mash-up coming....

    I could almost go a second gen Northstar into a D. That would rightly scare a few people.
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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Further to the conversion of the Dutch 11A into the 22CV replica, I wonder what type of transmission set up was used? The engine , I understand is a Ford V8 flat head. This would typically be a low revving high torque engine. My 5 litre Holden VT Calais revs at only 1759 rpm whilst cruising at 100 KPH. If you mated that to an ID/DS gearbox and final drive which is normally driven by an engine revving at around 3000 rpm to give the 100 KPH the V8 would need to be turning at the same 3000 rpm to travel at 100 kph. This would be a total mismatch of the gearing that is really required. It would undoubtedly work but the poor old Ford engine would be revving too hard and the fuel bill would be horrendous. Then again the Citroen 6 was never really known for its miserly fuel consumption. The best I used to get with the 6H was around 21MPG.
    Cheers Gerry

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    M. Gerrypro,
    I was musing on the ring gear in the front seat line !!! A straight 6 is still going to be longer than a straight 4 OR a V8. As the axle/driveshaft position would remain the same, surely a 4 cylinder long engine would have more space at the rear in the jambon than a 6, and not be protruding deeper past the firewall.
    As for reading CAREFULLY .. I wish some of the contributors would SPELL carefully, but that is MY twisted nature.
    What is surprising that so many years on ( and in the opposite side of the world in a non french sphere of influence ) these cars create and hold interest. We are hoping for 60 D models at the upcoming Grand Display in Brisbane. Cheers
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Further to the conversion of the Dutch 11A into the 22CV replica, I wonder what type of transmission set up was used? The engine , I understand is a Ford V8 flat head. This would typically be a low revving high torque engine. My 5 litre Holden VT Calais revs at only 1759 rpm whilst cruising at 100 KPH. If you mated that to an ID/DS gearbox and final drive which is normally driven by an engine revving at around 3000 rpm to give the 100 KPH the V8 would need to be turning at the same 3000 rpm to travel at 100 kph. This would be a total mismatch of the gearing that is really required. It would undoubtedly work but the poor old Ford engine would be revving too hard and the fuel bill would be horrendous. Then again the Citroen 6 was never really known for its miserly fuel consumption. The best I used to get with the 6H was around 21MPG.
    I understand that a Renault 16 gearbox was used.
    roger

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