Where is (was) the relay for the high beam after the fuse on a D?
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    Fellow Frogger! Lasya's Avatar
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    Default Where is (was) the relay for the high beam after the fuse on a D?

    My right high beam in the high/low globe is not getting power. There's no power at the connection back up at the firewall so I'm theorizing with all the mucking about going on the right wire has been disconnected from the relay, but can't find it and don't want to remove the whole dash just to find/reconnect it. Anyone know where it is (was as there is a lot of new wiring in there... including another new relay that is not the one I'm looking for)? I'm going to trawl Don B Cilly's thread on the dash, but that may take a while!

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    Thanks,
    Gillian and Chris

    74 D Special, and now a 74 Pallas 23 5 speed with air(maybe). And now a Cactus!

    Oh, and a Holden.

    Lasya, Tibetan goddess of the moon and beauty who carries a mirror.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasya View Post
    My right high beam in the high/low globe is not getting power. There's no power at the connection back up at the firewall so I'm theorizing with all the mucking about going on the right wire has been disconnected from the relay, but can't find it and don't want to remove the whole dash just to find/reconnect it. Anyone know where it is (was as there is a lot of new wiring in there... including another new relay that is not the one I'm looking for)? I'm going to trawl Don B Cilly's thread on the dash, but that may take a while!

    Thanks,
    There won't be an OEM relay on your car to the best of my knowledge - have you checked the fuse on the right hand side, there are two, the white marked one is for main lights RHS. The two fuse box is hiding behind the windscreen wiper motor or thereabouts.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Ha ha! My wiring diagram is soooo small. I just did that (again) and the exit side of the fuse was getting a poor intermittent connection (which helped confuse me). some emery sorted everything. Thanks for the grey work everyone.
    Gillian and Chris

    74 D Special, and now a 74 Pallas 23 5 speed with air(maybe). And now a Cactus!

    Oh, and a Holden.

    Lasya, Tibetan goddess of the moon and beauty who carries a mirror.

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    Well, it seems like I jumped to the fixed it conclusion too soon. There is now power coming out of the fuse consistently but there is nothing getting to the next connection, which is just on the other side of the blower. This, as the very small crow flies is probably a hand width away, but the wire goes back into a loom and then back out again, so it's hard to work out how long the wire is. Does it go anywhere else? Or just into the loom and back out again?
    Gillian and Chris

    74 D Special, and now a 74 Pallas 23 5 speed with air(maybe). And now a Cactus!

    Oh, and a Holden.

    Lasya, Tibetan goddess of the moon and beauty who carries a mirror.

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    ....AND, that double fuse box on the right doesn't appear on the wiring diagram..(?) is the diagram any use?
    Gillian and Chris

    74 D Special, and now a 74 Pallas 23 5 speed with air(maybe). And now a Cactus!

    Oh, and a Holden.

    Lasya, Tibetan goddess of the moon and beauty who carries a mirror.

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasya View Post
    ....AND, that double fuse box on the right doesn't appear on the wiring diagram..(?) is the diagram any use?
    There doesn't appear to be a wiring diagram to cover the late DS 10 fuse set-up, (readily available), best we have is the owners handbook to identify fuses. The 2 inline fuses #7 and #8 left and right may not be fitted, they fuse the driving lights (spots). From what I've read they were a German delivery only but not a bad modification for our cars.



    As best I can see, the wires you are concerned with will be Yellow sleeved and Green sleeved at the guard loom. Not sure which is high beam and which is low.

    Cheers
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Where is (was) the relay for the high beam after the fuse on a D?-ds-6-fuse.jpg  
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Alrighty- let's square away the confusion. Your car is a '74 D Special, Australian market, correct? I don't think Don B. Cilly's thread is going to help a lot- his is Italian market, which I discovered is quite different from the standard French issue D. IIRC, Chris found a copy of the Aussie/NZ owner's manual which describes your system. I realize your car isn't IE. For this purpose, that won't matter. Click on either one of the two gray books, and go to page 35. Someone here transposed the 10 fuses of an Aussie system onto a later style factory flow chart diagram- I'll see if I can dig that up. Your car should have only one relay in the system, for the aux high beams (swivelling lamps). If you're getting the aux beams, that isn't disconnected. It's located on a tiedown above the airbox on your passenger side. For you, that's a dash-out job. Check the connections at the fenders for corrosion, and make sure the fender harness grounds are connected.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Dang Chris, you're too fast for me.

    At the fender, high is yellow, green is low, and mauve is aux high. Purple is turn, red is marker, (blue is town horn, white is country hoen, and gray is brake wear- all three passenger side only).
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Dang Chris, you're too fast for me.

    At the fender, high is yellow, green is low, and mauve is aux high. Purple is turn, red is marker, (blue is town horn, white is country hoen, and gray is brake wear- all three passenger side only).
    Yeah, but you know what you are talking about. . .
    I didn't notice you online or I would have shut up

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Yeah, but you know what you are talking about. . .
    I didn't notice you online or I would have shut up

    Cheers
    Chris
    Ain't nothin' but a thing, Chris. Don B. proved to me sometimes I don't know what I'm talking about. That second set of eyes is worth a lot.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    I thought I saw this somewhere:

    posted by Michaelr, 12/04/11, 4:30PM (My time- PST), "DS23 Restoration"





    Join DateOct 2010LocationSydneyPosts1,128




    Originally Posted by SilverBullet
    Hi All,
    My car has 6 fuses on one side of the bulkhead and another 2 on the wiper motor side, I cant seem to find a wiring diagram with this set up does one exist??, is this RHD only maybe??.



    Hi, your car looks great, thanks for the photos. I see it is left hand drive. What is the history of the vehicle?

    Attached is some info on a ten fuse system, however two of those are in-line fuses (marked 7 & 8) for the long range lights which may be an Australian specific addition. Maybe the bulkhead fuse setup is the same as yours. This is a Jpeg but the PDF version is too big to upload here (1.3mb) so I could send that in an email if you want.

    Maybe you can post more on the progress on your car since all the older posts were lost?
    Attached Thumbnails

    I have a PDF copy, but I don't remember if I applied for it or what. In any case, this should cover what you're seeing as opposed to the standard 4-pin fuse panels.


    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    You beat me to it HotRod, I have just searched for (and found) the PDF mentioned above.

    If anyone wants a copy just private message me with your email address and I can send it.

    Maybe Greenblood has a DropBox ready to share such things?
    Hotrodelectric and Leconte like this.
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

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    Thanks everyone! Yep I discovered that the jaune is high beam on both sides on the high/low headlight. I must confess I didn't check the earth, an oversight, but it was because there is power out of the right side fuse, but at the next connection on the other side of the blower there is none. I had to go to mums to do some work so dont have time to crack the bonnet today before work. hopefully get to it tomorrow. Will trawl through the diagrams Hotrodelectric posted and see if it enlightens me any. I have discovered that the globes are 90/100's. Surely this would be too much drain without a relay on each circuit?

    Thanks again!
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    Gillian and Chris

    74 D Special, and now a 74 Pallas 23 5 speed with air(maybe). And now a Cactus!

    Oh, and a Holden.

    Lasya, Tibetan goddess of the moon and beauty who carries a mirror.

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    This Special has four fuses on the left and two on the right.
    Gillian and Chris

    74 D Special, and now a 74 Pallas 23 5 speed with air(maybe). And now a Cactus!

    Oh, and a Holden.

    Lasya, Tibetan goddess of the moon and beauty who carries a mirror.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelr View Post
    You beat me to it HotRod, I have just searched for (and found) the PDF mentioned above.

    If anyone wants a copy just private message me with your email address and I can send it.

    Maybe Greenblood has a DropBox ready to share such things?
    Hi Michael,
    Looks like I can't have two dropbox accounts on one computer unless I upgrade to 'Business Class'

    I have made a shared folder on my 'pov' personal account, so can host and share there - PM your email address and I'll send a request for you to upload.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasya View Post
    This Special has four fuses on the left and two on the right.
    Just gotta' be different hey Chris

    It's a Citroen so anything is possible, but I've never come across that combination, what year is your car, was it a private import??

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    74 D special. I've seen a couple of others with the same fuse placement.

    Thanks,
    Gillian and Chris

    74 D Special, and now a 74 Pallas 23 5 speed with air(maybe). And now a Cactus!

    Oh, and a Holden.

    Lasya, Tibetan goddess of the moon and beauty who carries a mirror.

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasya View Post
    Thanks everyone! Yep I discovered that the jaune is high beam on both sides on the high/low headlight. I must confess I didn't check the earth, an oversight, but it was because there is power out of the right side fuse, but at the next connection on the other side of the blower there is none. I had to go to mums to do some work so dont have time to crack the bonnet today before work. hopefully get to it tomorrow. Will trawl through the diagrams Hotrodelectric posted and see if it enlightens me any. I have discovered that the globes are 90/100's. Surely this would be too much drain without a relay on each circuit?

    Thanks again!
    The fender harness grounds are pretty easy. You'll see two lengths of wire about 200mm long, one on each of the frame rails right behind where the the horns mount. To these wires, a ground wire comes from the fender harness just past the headlamp connections. The ends are marked in brown, and provide ground for the headlamps, marker lamps and the turn signals. The horns are grounded directly to the frame, and the wear indicators are a ground, to the indicator lamp.

    Make sure these grounds are made. Without them, you will get some bizarre lighting problems as 12v seeks a ground path.

    90/100w bulbs on factory wire is begging for a fire. If you want to keep those bulbs, use the wiring out to the fender as a trip and insert 30A relays to power the lamps. If you have trouble sorting that, let me know. You will have to remake the fender harnesses to suit. Not at all difficult.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    No trouble to sort the relays, thanks anyway. Though the fact I've got power out of the fuse but not at the next stop probably means I'll run the signal from there. Cheers everybody.
    Gillian and Chris

    74 D Special, and now a 74 Pallas 23 5 speed with air(maybe). And now a Cactus!

    Oh, and a Holden.

    Lasya, Tibetan goddess of the moon and beauty who carries a mirror.

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    Hey Mr Greenblood, forgot to answer your import question, but here's what you need to know I bought it from Peter Huth and Gayndah, so I'm guessing you would know it..? I have no idea if it's an import or not. WE are in the process of tracing it's history... I think.
    Gillian and Chris

    74 D Special, and now a 74 Pallas 23 5 speed with air(maybe). And now a Cactus!

    Oh, and a Holden.

    Lasya, Tibetan goddess of the moon and beauty who carries a mirror.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasya View Post
    Hey Mr Greenblood, forgot to answer your import question, but here's what you need to know I bought it from Peter Huth and Gayndah, so I'm guessing you would know it..? I have no idea if it's an import or not. WE are in the process of tracing it's history... I think.
    Chris, call me Chris please

    No I don't know the car, curious though, my car is a late '74 and has the 10 fuse set-up - well 8 actually as it doesn't have the 2 inline fuses.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Fellow Frogger! Lasya's Avatar
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    Where is (was) the relay for the high beam after the fuse on a D?-20150630_135052%5B1%5D.jpgWhere is (was) the relay for the high beam after the fuse on a D?-20150630_135039%5B1%5D.jpg

    FINALLY got time to have look.

    Well, here are the fuse boxes. The six fuse with the empty is on the left (Passenger on this model) and the 2 fuse is on the right. The power comes into the right one from the bottom out the top loops back down and into the loom. Then it goes back through the firewall and must split to go left and right because if the right fuse is disconnected the left fuse gets no power. I've checked the wire to the right high beam in the hi/lo circuit and it gets bugger-all power in the wire and the female connector. When the male is connected there is no power whatsoever anywhere after the female. I've cleaned both male and female and nothing. I now theorise that at the split to left/right (there has to be one post right fuse) there is the weakest of connections still just hanging on. Does anyone know where the split could be? perhaps just behind the dash or......?
    Gillian and Chris

    74 D Special, and now a 74 Pallas 23 5 speed with air(maybe). And now a Cactus!

    Oh, and a Holden.

    Lasya, Tibetan goddess of the moon and beauty who carries a mirror.

  23. #23
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasya View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	71284Click image for larger version. 

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    FINALLY got time to have look.

    Well, here are the fuse boxes. The six fuse with the empty is on the left (Passenger on this model) and the 2 fuse is on the right. The power comes into the right one from the bottom out the top loops back down and into the loom. Then it goes back through the firewall and must split to go left and right because if the right fuse is disconnected the left fuse gets no power. I've checked the wire to the right high beam in the hi/lo circuit and it gets bugger-all power in the wire and the female connector. When the male is connected there is no power whatsoever anywhere after the female. I've cleaned both male and female and nothing. I now theorise that at the split to left/right (there has to be one post right fuse) there is the weakest of connections still just hanging on. Does anyone know where the split could be? perhaps just behind the dash or......?

    Alrighty. Let's get it on. ##cracks knuckles##

    The empty spot in your fusebox should be occupied. You have a line going in, nothing coming out- very unusual for a D box. If that space were blank, either there would be just terminals- no wiring- in that space, or, more normally anymore nothing at all. I'm willing to bet that the other end is tucked down into the bundle of wire there, even if it doesn't have a terminal attached.

    Now- the wiring does split left and right behind the dash for all three beams. According to the fuse I.D. page that Chris put up, you have two lamps in the fuse panel on the left, two on the right, and two individual fuse holders, one on each side. The path, nominally should be (yes- I am aware the car is French ) from the switch, and out to the lamps by way of the indicated fuses. In the case of the auxiliary high beams, it should be from the switch, to the previously located relay, and on out to the individual fuse holders, then to the lamps.

    What little evidence I have is someone mixed and matched wiring at the fenders. Once they leave the firewall, each headlamp has their own power source passing through a fuse. It's also possible someone put their own spin on making sense out of a French system at the fuse box. The first thing I would do is ensure the fenders are correctly connected. Next up, make sure that the connectors at the headlights are properly connected (green->green, yellow->yellow, mauve->mauve, brown-> brown). Make sure nothing is caught or pinched in the swivelling mechanism. Ensure the fender grounds are connected at the front of the chassis rail. Once all that is done, dig a little bit into the mass of wire just below the passenger side fuse box and see if there isn't a loose wire there, with or without the fuse clip. Without the clip, a quick test should tell you what it is.



    As posted by Greenblood earlier in this thread:
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Will get onto this on Thursday. Can say the empty spot I believe was filled by one of the lights on the left (I knew which this arvo but have forgotten now.D'oh) There is a line with a fuse in it separated from the fuse box. But the left High beam definitely gets its power after the right fuse. Thanks HRE!
    Gillian and Chris

    74 D Special, and now a 74 Pallas 23 5 speed with air(maybe). And now a Cactus!

    Oh, and a Holden.

    Lasya, Tibetan goddess of the moon and beauty who carries a mirror.

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    One thing I should have mentioned is that when I picked the car up everything worked just fine, and it passed the roadworthy too (so it wasn't my imagination) I've been poking around tidying up/fixing vents/painting/sound deadening etc and could have bent/torn/dislodged something.
    Gillian and Chris

    74 D Special, and now a 74 Pallas 23 5 speed with air(maybe). And now a Cactus!

    Oh, and a Holden.

    Lasya, Tibetan goddess of the moon and beauty who carries a mirror.

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