My life 1961 Citroen ID19 Gear refused to go in all the sudden.
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Thread: My life 1961 Citroen ID19 Gear refused to go in all the sudden.

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    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Icon9 My life 1961 Citroen ID19 Gear refused to go in all the sudden.

    Hello, all. This morning I was driving to Camberwell market and that was fine. On the way home, I noticed It does not shift gear at all. I cannot shift gear to 1 or 2 or 3 or 4. When I tried to shift gear, it will make grinding noise as cutch adjustment is too close. So I opened the bonnet, adjusted clutch rod but It does not help.
    I can shift gear when motor is NOT running so I decided to go home with gear 2 only. When I stop at light I have to turn ignition off because clutch will not disengage the engine from transmission. Luckily I managed to drive on the side of road from Bundoora to South Morang.


    I hope it is not big problem. If you have experienced this kind of fault, please let me know.
    Thank you.

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    1961 Citroen ID19(2010~), Holden Frontera(R.I.P 2002-2014), Honda Accord EURO(2006~)

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    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    Does the clutch pedal feel normal? The cable might be frayed and not sliding properly. Inspect the cable where is comes out of the outer cheath on top of the bell housing.

    Roger

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    clutch cable is gone ... or the pivot clutch end. I'd have just driven it home and tried to pick the revs
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    Get someone to operate the clutch pedal while you inspect the cable, arm & rod on top of the bell housing to see if it is all working as it should. I hope the problem will be a simple cable or lever failure .

    Richard

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    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    I wonder if it's the control lever( have I got the term correct)they are quite feeble on early ID. Mine started bending upwards and the symptoms you describe occurred. My friend made me a new, very strong one. But has the cable gone? Need to follow advice above and see what happens when you declutch. Oh the joys!
    Hope camby market good.

    Tim

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    The pivot arm that the cable and rod connect to in engine bay could be bent. It happened to mine a while back, the central pivot wears out allowing the angle of the arm to change. It then bends when the cable applies pressure it.
    Had mine rebuilt and hardened by a Citroen place in Sydney. I can't think of their name at this stage.

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    1000+ Posts dogboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citmad View Post
    The pivot arm that the cable and rod connect to in engine bay could be bent. It happened to mine a while back, the central pivot wears out allowing the angle of the arm to change. It then bends when the cable applies pressure it.
    Had mine rebuilt and hardened by a Citroen place in Sydney. I can't think of their name at this stage.
    same thing happened to me years ago and it was the pivot arm...it is a weak point and can bend/break as others have pointed out...
    that's my bet
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    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone for the advice.

    Tim you mean the L control lever? Initially I noticed that was bent so I welded metal piece to maje it stronger. I can see welding is still intact.

    I am not sure if there are anything wrong with cable as I can see is in good condition. Will steel cable stretch? I took video of clutch lever action. I feel it is not quite lifting far enough. Clutch pedal feels normal....

    My worry is that inside bell housing, clutch folk thing is bent or broken.... I hope not.
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/capa_r...posted-public/
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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caparobertsan View Post
    Thanks everyone for the advice.

    Tim you mean the L control lever? Initially I noticed that was bent so I welded metal piece to maje it stronger. I can see welding is still intact.

    I am not sure if there are anything wrong with cable as I can see is in good condition. Will steel cable stretch? I took video of clutch lever action. I feel it is not quite lifting far enough. Clutch pedal feels normal....

    My worry is that inside bell housing, clutch folk thing is bent or broken.... I hope not.
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/capa_r...posted-public/
    I'll bow to those better informed but it looks like poor adjustment to me - too much free play, looking at the video I'd say your pedal is well past halfway before it takes up. Rule of thumb for the later cars is to have about 2-3mm from the rod to the bellhousing, your rod is resting on the bellhousing and the cable goes slack at rest.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caparobertsan View Post
    Thanks everyone for the advice.

    Tim you mean the L control lever? Initially I noticed that was bent so I welded metal piece to maje it stronger. I can see welding is still intact.

    I am not sure if there are anything wrong with cable as I can see is in good condition. Will steel cable stretch? I took video of clutch lever action. I feel it is not quite lifting far enough. Clutch pedal feels normal....

    My worry is that inside bell housing, clutch folk thing is bent or broken.... I hope not.
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/capa_r...posted-public/
    Cars with lots of mileage will wear the bosses on the clutch fork. You might also have a pressure plate problem. I wonder if you can stick a remote camera in through the fork opening and have a little look see? I have a cameras where the lens is about the size of a pencil erase on a flexible wand. See if you can borrow something like that.

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daffyduck View Post
    Cars with lots of mileage will wear the bosses on the clutch fork. You might also have a pressure plate problem. I wonder if you can stick a remote camera in through the fork opening and have a little look see? I have a cameras where the lens is about the size of a pencil erase on a flexible wand. See if you can borrow something like that.
    I would have thought that would be seen as gradual deterioration, Kaz drove the car to an event and had trouble on leaving. I'd still look at clutch adjustment initially





    Cheers
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My life 1961 Citroen ID19 Gear refused to go in all the sudden.-id-clutch-adjustment1.jpg   My life 1961 Citroen ID19 Gear refused to go in all the sudden.-id-clutch-adjustment2.jpg  
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Quote Originally Posted by daffyduck View Post
    Cars with lots of mileage will wear the bosses on the clutch fork. You might also have a pressure plate problem. I wonder if you can stick a remote camera in through the fork opening and have a little look see? I have a cameras where the lens is about the size of a pencil erase on a flexible wand. See if you can borrow something like that.
    Yes, get to know a proctologist or maybe just a Citroen mechanic with such a sideline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daffyduck View Post
    Cars with lots of mileage will wear the bosses on the clutch fork. You might also have a pressure plate problem. I wonder if you can stick a remote camera in through the fork opening and have a little look see? I have a cameras where the lens is about the size of a pencil erase on a flexible wand. See if you can borrow something like that.
    As this seems to have happen quite suddenly and you have tried taking up any cable slack the most likely problem is that one of the three release toggles has fractured or broken. As mentioned it is a problem with cars with a lot of mileage. And the same thing has been know to happen with the diaphragm clutches on later moder cars also. Bill Ricco is well aware of this. What really tends to point to this is that it happened with little to no warning that anything was wrong.

    Over the course of some 50+ years of DS ownership and driving I have personally had it happen twice. Same exact situation as your. Car was fine one minute and then grinding.

    Steve

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    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    That looks like it's doing what it is meant to in the video (great film by the way). At least it doesn't look like anything seen there could be responsible for the instant failure you've experienced. Must be stuck thrust bearing? Sometimes happens with cars sitting for long periods? A solution to this can possibly be finding a safe place, engage gear, drive to 30 miles per hour then slam on all pedals at once in hope of effecting release...? This happened to me twice, not necessarily after a long period of being laid up. Thoughts from others?

    Tim

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Middlemoon.1 View Post
    That looks like it's doing what it is meant to in the video. Thoughts from others?

    Tim
    Looks like a massive amount of free play to me, but I'm more familiar with the later cars

    Looking at the images I posted above the actuation rod should be clear of the bellhousing by 1mm. at rest, this suggests to me there is more movement of the clutch fork available. Kaz has made an adjustment since his initial symptom so the video may not be telling the full story.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    Yes I see what you mean Chris - I think I was just focussed on the condition of the relay which looks ok. Kaz how was it changing previously? Odd that it would go from go to whoa like that. Are you able to take up that apparent slack?

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Middlemoon.1 View Post
    Yes I see what you mean Chris - I think I was just focussed on the condition of the relay which looks ok. Kaz how was it changing previously? Odd that it would go from go to whoa like that. Are you able to take up that apparent slack?
    Just found this Tim, et al, makes for interesting reading in light of this current thread. . .
    MY 1961 Citroen ID19 clutch cable and rear supension movement

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    For the record, the last hands on experience I had, as described in the first post, was a well worn clutch cable that had snapped all but a few strands of wire. Take a real good look at the cable.

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    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    There you go Kaz - similar problem to what you experienced earlier...cable and adjustment issue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Middlemoon.1 View Post
    There you go Kaz - similar problem to what you experienced earlier...cable and adjustment issue?
    He's not saying much is he

    If, if Kaz applied the spacer fix suggested by Steve, it is possible that it has come adrift and Kaz is back to square one

    Who would know, Kaz had problems back in September 2012 and it seems the cable was too long at that time to get factory adjustments - might be time for a new cable Kaz?

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    It's amazing the assistance that comes with all this technology. Good on you Chris and Good luck Kaz - let's know how it goes. Hopefully it's an easier fix than may have been the case.

    I'm missing the early cars - well mine's only 6 years newer - but having fun with the new(ish) acquisition.

    Tim
    Last edited by Middlemoon.1; 8th June 2015 at 05:25 PM.

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    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Hello, all
    I have removed cable today and inspected. It is in good condition but maybe stretched little? Obeviusly cable is slightly too long so I jammed a vice grip on the cable end so it can pull more and push the rod and clutch lever further.
    But no luck.

    I am convinced that somehow clutch is completely stuck to flywheel. Maybe grease? fork is broken?

    I will have to remove whole front part and try to put camera through clutch lever opening.....

    Not only CItro broken down this weekend but my old Powermac G5 has died. I wanted fix at least one but both are still dead. Now I am broken....

    I will let you know the progress.

    Thanks all.
    1961 Citroen ID19(2010~), Holden Frontera(R.I.P 2002-2014), Honda Accord EURO(2006~)

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    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    I passed our iMac G5 onto a great friend - also citroen/peugeot afficienado and it still works like a charm. I think the Mac build quality has gone down a little since then.

    Maybe the jammed thrust bearing (not on the Mac, the Cit)?

    Tim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Middlemoon.1 View Post

    Maybe the jammed thrust bearing (not on the Mac, the Cit)?

    Tim
    Starting to sound like the big spanners

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    What about the old stuck thrust bearing remedy?

    Tim

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