DS LED headlight upgrade.
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! mberry's Avatar
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    Default DS LED headlight upgrade.

    I'm still driving around with original lighting on my DS's. Being lazy may have put me in good stead for jumping a couple of generations. With all these new modern headlights blinding me at every turn.
    Has anyone tried a modern LED headlight upgrade on a DS?
    I drive the DS as an everyday car, so the lighting has started to become more of an issue, they were well advanced compared to most of their contemporaries, but the lighting, like the power plant was a little under done. I'm thinking I can jump straight into the latest technology, tell me I'm wrong.

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    I'm thinking I can take a modern light 'with' it's reflector and fit it into my headlight, the new LED's are tiny.

  2. #2
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    Hi Michael,

    I am thinking the same but suspect we are not quite there yet. I looked (mainly ebay) at led replacement bulbs for all the rear lights and indicators and it is a confusing area but full of promise. Attractive to get real red and real amber ones given the faded lenses on my ID. There are dozens of chinese sellers and a few UK ones, not sure if I have seen local ones. But headlights I am not so sure of.

    We need someone to blaze the trail for us. My main issue remains lack of time so these ideas are not getting turned into action at the moment.

    To complicate matters, strictly speaking my headlight bowls need replacing or rechroming and I found both options difficult and expensive - probably over $250 per light for either option. No easy answers sometimes.

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Has anyone tried a modern LED headlight upgrade on a DS?
    I think Corne (Cornesoutafrica) did that with some success. He used the original reflectors (they were trashed) as framework for the new reflectors and lenses. I haven't seen him here for awhile, but you can try to PM him, or maybe get his email address from his profile.
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    Fellow Frogger! Rally's Avatar
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    For headlights you need HID not LED ,

    I think the DS uses H1 globes and there are plenty of straight swap HID kits to suit H1.Try E bay for replacement globes ,

    I converted my 504 headlights to HID and the difference is dramatic , I can see again.
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    I tried HID but the lamps themselves need to be modified
    Relays and re wiring the originals is an option also I note only the later Ds seem to have QH bulbs
    An obvious improvement

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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    If you want to be a friend to other road users, do not go the HDI route. The lenses and reflectors on a D were never designed for them and are not accurate enough to control the light projection. I would not do it to a CX either.

    I assume you have relays feeding the lights, so I would suggest you by some +100% Halogen H4 and H1 globes. Phillips make them. They put out twice the light with the same power input well within the capabilities of the light units. I have these in the CX and they make a noticeable difference without blinding other road users
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    Banned Haakon's Avatar
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    LED headlight globes are a thing now. Even the base model Corrolla is LED equipped these days.

    160W 9000LM Cree LED XML CAR Headlight Kits H4 HI LO Replace Halogen Bulbs 6000K | eBay

    LED tend to be better thna HID globes because the point of illumination is more aligned to where the filiment on a halogen is - this is important because it affects the behaviour of the reflector and if mismatched (ie putting cheap HID kits in reflectors designed for halogen) you get random glare and poorly cut off low beam - ie piss off your fellow motorists.

    LEDS can also be used for high beam as they illuminate immediatly, unlike HID which is a low beam only affair as they take a couple of seconds to warm up.

    I would look at not using the original reflectors at all for low beam, and installing a projector lense. The aesthetics will be a challenge

    3 0" Universal CAR Headlights HID BI Xenon Projector Lens KIT Halo Angel EYE 55W | eBay

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Both are available. My preference is for QI, but that requires near perfect reflectors
    .So does HID. The LED lamps have the advantage of already being self contained like a seàled beam. They're not as good as QI or HID For lighting. They are an inexpensive solution to an expensive problem.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I don't like those HID headlights that "blast" you with high intensity light as the car goes over bumps. I reckon high beam is excellent in a DS, especially if you have fitted headlight relays and have good chrome on the reflectors. Low beam however is terrible.

    As much as I hate those HID's, they'd probably work well in a DS's low beam. You see, if you made sure the headlight leveling wires back to the rollbars were un-seized and setup correctly, you in theory should never give other road users the "blast" of high intensity light as your driving along.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    I don't like those HID headlights that "blast" you with high intensity light as the car goes over bumps. I reckon high beam is excellent in a DS, especially if you have fitted headlight relays and have good chrome on the reflectors. Low beam however is terrible.

    As much as I hate those HID's, they'd probably work well in a DS's low beam. You see, if you made sure the headlight leveling wires back to the rollbars were un-seized and setup correctly, you in theory should never give other road users the "blast" of high intensity light as your driving along.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    I have recently been down the HID replacement situation in order to upgrade the performance of a Mitsubishi Challenger .. standard H4 bulbs. As mentioned above the lens patterning didn't suit the HID light source.. a good pool of blusih green light on low but no benefit on high. The trouble with HID bulbs is the "ignition" time and having to initiate burn between low and high would mean momentary darkness when one source was extinguished and the other getting up to temp. The replacements actually have ONE light source that is tilted into a different position for lo or hi beam use. I have replaced the HIDs with original H4 ... unless designed for them the HID conversions are not worth the effort.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts driven's Avatar
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    HID lights need auto self levelling and cleaning ability I read on the Vicroads website
    Check your state rules for aftermarket fitting

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by driven View Post
    HID lights need auto self levelling and cleaning ability I read on the Vicroads website
    Check your state rules for aftermarket fitting
    Well ... they are talking about putting them on a DS ... possibly the only car ever made with "real" leveling headlights ... Not only doest he car itself self level, so do the headlights!
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    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    Citroen may have been the first many years ago, but these days it's pretty standard. Every car that comes with OE HID lights must have "real" self levelling beams. However, levelling the beam is meaningless if said beam is poorly focused and throws light where it shouldn't because someone's put a cr*p HID bulb in a lens that was never made for it.

    Those LED H4 bulbs look even worse - instead of a single point source for the light, the light would seem to come from a range of LEDs spread over more than about 30mm, and nothing at all from the centre of where the original lens would have focussed. How on earth is that going to focus properly and give a clean low beam cut-off? I think anyone selling that stuff should be prosecuted - except they're no doubt all dodgy vendors in China.

    I don't know anything about Citroen lights and their mounting points, so I'm probably showing my ignorance, but why is it not possible to adapt a nice Cibie or Hella 7" QH insert? Put a high output QH bulb in those and surely it's enough light.

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    You touch on an interesting point, all the Osram (to pick one make) HID and LED globes in H4 seem to be coming from places like China or India.

    Being that Mr Berry's car is probably one of the best in Australia in condition and "correctness" I am looking forward to an elegant and discreet modification story.

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post

    Being that Mr Berry's car is probably one of the best in Australia in condition and "correctness" I am looking forward to an elegant and discreet modification story.
    Well I'd be hoping that the car remains one of the best and with minimal modification, or I'll have to disown Michael!!

    Michael if you have the twin reflector style lights dump them and replace with the later improved singles using H4. . .

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    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
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    Hi Michael,
    Just a few comments...
    I have NOS headlights and inner spotties with the standard 35/45 filiment globes in the main and 55 w halogen in the spots. The light is brilliant and not far off that of a modern car.
    So the reflectors and contacts in the relays behind the dash are important. If your lights are original then the reflectors are probably past it.
    Often people fit higher wattage globes which draw more current and generate more heat which accelerates the deterioration of the reflectors and relay contacts.
    So first I'd look at replacement lights and clean the contacts on the relays and the slide connectors at the relays, switch and guard to ensure your getting 13+ volts to the globes.
    HID is illegal and at higher wattages will destroy your reflectors.
    LED is not there yet as a substitute.
    IMHO I would spend the dollars on getting the factory system working properly.
    Hope this helps....
    Cheers,
    Mark...

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    Fellow Frogger! mberry's Avatar
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    some great advice here, and a couple of different view points, as expected. I have already done quite a bit of research, and there are some serious legal issues associated with modifying headlights. Very interesting reading. However, Chris is right, I take some pride in the originality of my cars, but, if a suitable modification can be found, I'm happy to consider it. The standard beam is simply not adequate, I will be upgrading. The question is which way to go, I certainly don't want to be responsible for blinding someone and causing an accident. So I'm progressing with caution, and I'm not interested in anything that doesn't look original., so the path is becoming more defined.

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    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, our daily drive has HID lights as standard. They're good lights, but i don't think HID is hugely better than good halogen lights to drive behind. If you can get good halogen inserts of some variety in there and use some of the newer 'plus' halogen bulbs that claim 80% or 100% more light than the original then I'd be surprised if it weren't more than adequate...

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    I've been down this route with my 69 DS21. The original 45w/55w system had dangerously poor output for driving on city and country roads, so the upgrade I used was as follows and has delivered the best performance of all the cars I've owned, including moderns with HID's:
    - bulbs on dip/high and turning spots replaced with 100w units. These were special ordered Narva units from SuperCheap, weren't expensive from memory.
    - 3 x fused 30A relays, mounted discreetly on the battery frame (Automotive Fused Relay - SPST 30A | Automotive | Relays & Accessories | Electromechanical Components | PRODUCTS | SY4077 | Jaycar Electronics)
    - heavy gauge wiring from the battery to the relays, then from the relays to the bulbs
    - better earthing
    - modern 4-way plug/socket hidden in each front guard to allow the lights to be quickly unplugged to remove a guard. Also from Jaycar.

    I haven't had any issues with the heat of the bulbs damaging the lights, as they are 'old fashioned' glass/metal units (the chrome inside them isn't fantastic either), not the plastic meltable units found on modern cars. Compared to +50 and +80 55w bulbs I've used on modern cars the 100w bulbs are brighter and also cheaper. With properly aimed lights you don't get flashed and the car has no issue passing inspection. I haven't had any issues with excess battery drain at night. The light output is very good now, driving at night is actually enjoyable and safer. Overall I really recommend it.

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    Fellow Frogger! renault12's Avatar
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    Default DS LED headlight upgrade.

    Ha! My regular eBay session has revealed something you may be interested in. Not my thing.. But check these out:

    http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...obalID=EBAY-AU

    Could be worth thinking about should the LED road be the one you wanted to head down...

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    I have just installed LED H4 bulbs (Autofeel 7600 lumen) on my CX. They replace Philips 100% QH. They make the QH look like candles side by side, and have very clean low beam cut-off and focus. There is a huge amount of rubbish out there so choose carefully.

    I also have a question about my S2 CX Turbo which has H4 main bulbs coupled with smaller driving reflectors. Can someone tell me what bulb type goes in these? The car is in Europe so I can't check easily.

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    Not on a DS, but I've replaced all my lights on racecar with LED. Spent longer than would be recommended comparing different options.
    I ended up with OSRAM/Sylvania Zevo LED replacements. They are very good, much brighter and faster response, while on a way lower current draw.
    For all the indicators and brake bulbs etc, I found an equivalent that would fit. It's important to remember to get matching output colour to the lens it will be shining through i.e. Red brake lens uses a red bulb. It's tempting to get white for all and let the lens modify it, but apparently that's not correct for LED bulbs and you'll get lesser output.

    One issue you will find is for flashers that use the current draw to hold the flash rate on against a spring, the current draw will be way too small.
    This is an example of the brake light bulb
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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speaksgeek View Post
    One issue you will find is for flashers that use the current draw to hold the flash rate on against a spring, the current draw will be way too small.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Diverging on to indicator systems for those of us in Tractions that still have operative semaphore signals there is the availability of festoon "flashicator' bulbs from this company in the UK Classic Dynamo & Regulator Conversions
    I have them in my Light Fifteen and they are brilliant. People now actually take notice of the signal when the arm is extended.
    Cheers Gerry

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    Me, if DoubleChevron doesn't chime in here, maybe message him - he'd know.


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    The advice I’ve seen online suggests that LEDs give the best results when the LED is mounted to the fixture at the same distance from the base as the original element in the original bulb. This setup will then still compliment the design of the reflector...
    I think this is distance is about 25mm.


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