What to do with my AX
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Thread: What to do with my AX

  1. #1
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    Default What to do with my AX

    It's had ignition issues for years but I've learned to live with it.

    Basically after running really hot (needle approaching red and fans kicking in) it won't restart (when switched off) until it cools for around 20 minutes. No biggie, you just plan your journey so that when you switch off you know you're not going to be able to restart straight away.

    Short trips, e.g. to the servo are no problem because it doesn't get so hot that you can't restart it. It's only when it's been running really hot that this problem persists. Think bumper to bumper, middle of summer Brisbane.

    That was then.

    Now the problem has deteriorated to the point where it won't run smoothly at all. It still fires up first go (even after sitting for weeks!) and idles well but the engine now stutters and intermittently loses power under load.

    I've swapped out the ignition module for an (assumed) good one, but it's made no difference.

    I know others here (Bruce H, Ken W et al) have had issues with this particular model over the years and have no doubt been down this same track but I love this car and would really like to get it sorted.

    I can do the usual checks on all analogue bits like plugs, filters etc but that's the limit of my knowledge.

    I suppose I could go down the convert-to-carby track as Erikbm did(?) but I've got a feeling that's not as easy as t sounds.

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    Anyone suggest a fix?

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Jinandfonic's Avatar
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    Sounds like the carby has leaks? All that heat may have shrunk the gaskets or warped the alloy. Take the top off and spray throddle body spray around gaskets and see if it bleeds out. Check vacuum lines too.
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    umm, it's injection.

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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Hi Graham,

    Sounds like its time to put a waveform scope (CRO) on the ignition system to see what's really going on. The injection system syncs off the ignition system so if that's dodgy, then the injection will be struggling too.

    What's the tacho doing when it is running unevenly or not starting? Is it jerking all over the place too or smooth as if there was nothing wrong?

    My first guess is that you might be looking to try and find a good replacement distributor with module and/or a coil.

    I have do have a CRO but am busy until mid June.

    Cheers,

    Ken W

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    Thanks Ken, that sounds like a good approach. The Tacho is smooth as if nothing's wrong, not jerky at idle or at revs, but now that you mention it I'll double check that and report back.

    Not familiar with waveform scope (CRO) - does it isolate the fault exactly? Or at least point you in the general area?? Would very much appreciate it if and when you have time to sus that out for me.. cheers mate.

    Meantime I'll see what I can dig up on eBay UK in terms of dizzy, module, coil..

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! Trading Estate's Avatar
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    Why is it running so hot (approaching red)? Surely first problem to be fixed accepting heavy traffic , hot weather. etc Fans should kick in well before red?
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    Never goes into the red - the fans kick in and it goes down to normal again. Maybe the gauge is not accurate? But it's never overheated - no water leaks

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    Ken - after a quick trip around the block the tacho is smooth all the way, not twitchy at all.

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    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Was the engine misbehaving during that drive though?


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    Yes Dave, it was.

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    It'll have an ignition module ... just like almost all cars from the early 90's and late 80's. They get heat sensative when they get old (especially where the thermal paste there bolted down with dries out) .... so when you park the car with a hot engine, the underbonnet heat dramatically increases and the ignition module shuts itself down.

    As a test, grab your hair dryer, go outside start the car and heat the igntion module up with the hair dryer. I bet the car stops as soon as it gets hot, and restarts when it cools.

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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    The module bolts onto the side of the Dizzy. It's a magnetic pickup inside the dizzy so I'm a bit suspicious of the pick-up coil in there as well. There is probably also a condensor (capacitor) around somewhere that could be going open or short as well. I have a schematic at home so I will check that tonight.

    A CRO is short for a cathode ray oscilloscope and it allows you to look at the primary side of the coil to see what the voltage waveforms are like when the module turns off and you get the big inductive voltage spike that gets transformed into kV in the coil.

    Don't have to use them often these days but invaluable in some situations. How much of a hurry are you in?

    The fact that the tacho stays smooth indicates that the primary side voltage spike may be OK enought to trigger the tacho and injection ECU. So maybe look for a condensor or coil or breakdown in the dizzy cap. Try a good clean up of the dizzy cap and rotor with some metho and make sure the carbon button in the middle fo the cap is nice and springy so it makes good contact with the rotor. Sometime rotors have a high value supression resistor built in that can go open circuit. Should be able to test this with a multimeter.

    Cheers,

    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    It'll have an ignition module ... just like almost all cars from the early 90's and late 80's. They get heat sensative when they get old (especially where the thermal paste there bolted down with dries out) .... so when you park the car with a hot engine, the underbonnet heat dramatically increases and the ignition module shuts itself down.

    As a test, grab your hair dryer, go outside start the car and heat the igntion module up with the hair dryer. I bet the car stops as soon as it gets hot, and restarts when it cools.

    seeya,
    shane L.
    Indeed Shane, that's why I swapped out the ignition module with another (supposedly good one) as per the OP.

    Made no difference.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    With the getting hot issue, it sounds like you've lost the low fan speed mode. There is a resistor in a can that gets put in circuit with the fan motor for low speed and they often burn out. I'm pretty sure we had to replace that on AXGT car during the time we had it. Do you have a Haynes manual for it, I don't think we still have ours as it probably went to Canberra with the car.

    Cheers,

    Ken W

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    Thanks Ken, cheers for these excellent tips.

    No big hurry if you can swing by and have a look but the rego is due June 16. If I can get it sorted prior to that it means i can keep it regoed knowing it's a goer.

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    I think I've got a Haynes for it Ken, somewhere. I'll have a look.

    Yes you could be right about the low speed fan - even though it never overheats it certainly comes close to the red before the secondary fan(?) kicks in.

    Thanks again for sharing these insights

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Could be duff ignition leads too. Might have some of those left over.

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    Found the Haynes manual

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    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graham66 View Post
    Found the Haynes manual
    I had a similar problem with an old fiat regata (especially under load)... I d recommend as Ken and give the dist. cap a good clean and inspect it thoroughly for cracks... I d make sure the fuel relay is good as well... gave me a big headache with my gti but a friendly wrecker helped me pin it down via a parts swap till the problem was fixed...

    cheers

    and good luck...

    ps... if you ever want to sell her... keep me in mind,... I regret not buying that ax a few years ago... cutest bloody thing on the planet...

    cheers



    dino

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    First check is the ignition. You have swapped the module so that part is OK. Generally ignition is go, no go situation. The fact that it affects power would point to probably broken bits in the distributor. Is the vacuum advance capsule firmly attached to the advance plate in the distributor. Has the distributor been lubricated properly. Warning if there are broken bits lubricating might make them come to the surface. What brand of distributor is it? Double check everything and if all is OK move to the injection system.

    The AX has a mono point system does it not. The normal checks for airtightness but those systems are very dependent on the 02 sensor in a feedback loop to control fuel delivery. That would be one of the first things to check.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino View Post
    I regret not buying that ax a few years ago...
    cheers Dino, will do. I'm curious when you say that ax was it the eBay one from Hopper's Crossing? Circa mid 2009?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What to do with my AX-image3.jpg  

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    The AX has a mono point system does it not.
    I believe so Greg, yes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    What brand of distributor is it?
    Not sure Greg I'll check and report back

  23. #23
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    yeahhh it was about 5 years ago... but on the other side of Melbourne... Charcoal and a gt...

    If I ever get another opportunity to get one at the right price i d jump at it... just a very spunky well packaged car... love it.


    cheers

    dino
    graham66 likes this.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Default Schematic for Monopoint 2.2

    Here is a copy of the best diagram I have. How old are the spark plugs on this car?
    What does the exhaust smell like - rich or not rich? What colour are the spark plugs electrodes?

    I would try cleaning the dizzy cap, new plugs if the electrodes are black and sooty, and a cheap set of new leads from coil to dizzy and then to each sparkplug.

    I think these might take the same coil and a BX tzi or 16 valve.


    What to do with my AX-ax-monopoint-2.2-efi-small.jpg


    Cheers,

    Ken

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    Thanks Ken, cheers

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