The CitroŽn DS 19: Why Itís the Ultimate Classic Car
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    Default The CitroŽn DS 19: Why Itís the Ultimate Classic Car

    It's the OCC or "One Classic Car" to own or so the Wall Street Journal says...


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    don
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    Shame its taken them sooooo long to determin this as we have known this in aussie for a very long tiime

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    Quote Originally Posted by don View Post
    Shame its taken them sooooo long to determin this as we have known this in aussie for a very long tiime
    I would quite happily trade one for an Aston Martin DB5.
    Cheers Gerry

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    Sorry about before...I meant to include the URL but the tapatalk app won't let me - had to wait until on the PC

    The CitroŽn DS 19: Why It?s the Ultimate Classic Car - WSJ

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    I would trade one, perhaps two, for a Tatra T87, even though it is a less capable car.

    Roger

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    It is a nice car but thats not even a DS 19
    Dan

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeemanDan View Post
    It is a nice car but thats not even a DS 19
    Imagine if our talk show expert had to deal with powered rack, button brakes and a real BVH transmission.
    I suspect he wouldn't have coped.

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    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    To be fair, he did mention in the interview that it was an ID, not a DS.

    Sent from my Q10 using Tapatalk

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    I would love an early DS. With all the bells and whistles. It is staggering to me the level of technology in the car, and my breath gets taken away when I realise WHEN that technology was in the car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
    To be fair, he did mention in the interview that it was an ID, not a DS.

    Sent from my Q10 using Tapatalk
    To drive a REAL DS requires some considerable relearning of the systems. Going from a manual steered and pendant brake pedal ID ( the gearchange is pretty unconventional too in pattern on an ID especially an early with first gear DOWN ) to a powered big toe braking and finger tipped gear change may not have been easy. While the efforts are all reduced, the responses from the car are not linear, and take familiarity.
    Years ago I made a real hash of driving a Diravi CX manual .. the effort for the steering didn't match the crude force needed for the clutch and gearstick. My how I miss the mushroom button.

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    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    A major criterion in the design of the DS19 was to make driving easy. Thus this preface to the Owner's Handbook of a 1966 DS19.

    "Here you are at the wheel of your DS 19."

    "This car combines the two essential requirements of modern motoring: comfort and safety.

    "What we mean by comfort, is a car in which one feels at home, well heated, well ventilated, softly lighted and furnished with deep seats and thick carpets. On the road, for real comfort, the suspension system of this "residence" must ensure that it is unaffected by any unevenness of the road.

    "The DS 19 offers you all this. In addition, it offers you what might be called intellectual comfort, that is to say the freedom of mind which its servo-controls provide. "Mechanical slaves" are at your feet, under the bonnet, ready to carry out your orders: start the engine, de-clutch, change gear, steer, brake and level the road. The DS 19 is fingertip controlled and effortless to drive.

    "You think, it acts.

    "With astonishing docility, the DS 19 anticipates your desires and seems to forewarn your reflexes. In the first few miles you will no doubt experience an unusual sensation, one of pleasure far beyond your expectations.

    "You will soon experience the full sense of well-being which driving this car will give you and which will remain for many years the unchallenged attribute of the DS 19, your car. You are anxious to take it out on the road and we can understand your impatience, but restrain yourself long enough to read through the following pages."

    Roger

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    Had the development funds been available I am sure CitroŽn could have adapted the hydraulic, finger tip change to the C-Matic transmission, with the lever at the wheel, or down on the tunnel. A fourth overdrive gear & lock up torque convertor, would have aided fuel consumption & high speed cruising potential. I doubt it would have been beyond their ingenuity to incorporate a parking pawl system too, to comply with safety regulations.
    As for the mushroom brake, as much as I like it, I think a wide brake pedal, set lower than the accelerator, can work well, & caters for those who use left foot braking on automatics. Removing the spacer from the Xantia brake pedal proves how well it can work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenut View Post
    Had the development funds been available I am sure CitroŽn could have adapted the hydraulic, finger tip change to the C-Matic transmission, with the lever at the wheel, or down on the tunnel. A fourth overdrive gear & lock up torque convertor, would have aided fuel consumption & high speed cruising potential. I doubt it would have been beyond their ingenuity to incorporate a parking pawl system too, to comply with safety regulations.
    As for the mushroom brake, as much as I like it, I think a wide brake pedal, set lower than the accelerator, can work well, & caters for those who use left foot braking on automatics. Removing the spacer from the Xantia brake pedal proves how well it can work.
    Your preference for a brake PEDAL confirms what I intended. The control systems ( the hydraulic slaves ) are foreign to people unused to them. The BVH requires some timing on the driver's part too to ensure the smoothest possible changes. I agree with your argument about the placement of the brake pedal but the mushroom is an artifice to allow the unfamiliar to moderate the valve gear underneath. The silliest bit of ID practice is the use of a cable operated clutch pedal ( with uncomfortable ankle angles and arc angles over an elevated floor bulge ( not really needed to be as high as it is as there is only a small rod underneath )...real DS from the very beginning use a hydraulic clutch slave cylinder, all that was needed was a hydraulic master cylinder and reservoir which would have allowed mechanical advantage and lightness not available to the crude cable system.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund View Post
    Your preference for a brake PEDAL confirms what I intended. The control systems ( the hydraulic slaves ) are foreign to people unused to them. The BVH requires some timing on the driver's part too to ensure the smoothest possible changes. I agree with your argument about the placement of the brake pedal but the mushroom is an artifice to allow the unfamiliar to moderate the valve gear underneath. The silliest bit of ID practice is the use of a cable operated clutch pedal ( with uncomfortable ankle angles and arc angles over an elevated floor bulge ( not really needed to be as high as it is as there is only a small rod underneath )...real DS from the very beginning use a hydraulic clutch slave cylinder, all that was needed was a hydraulic master cylinder and reservoir which would have allowed mechanical advantage and lightness not available to the crude cable system.
    I think you have just described the SM hydraulic clutch. If you want weird and citroen, checkout how the CX hydrualic clutch works. it's very bizare they only fitted them as an option to prestiges .... once you have designed and made the thing, why not fit it to all cars ?

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Did you read the comments? Awful lot of snotty backbiting and downright hate for the D, pretty much all unfounded. It's OK, though. Those are the exact people the minivan segment was invented for.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Did you read the comments? Awful lot of snotty backbiting and downright hate for the D, pretty much all unfounded. It's OK, though. Those are the exact people the minivan segment was invented for.
    I had read the comments Bill and intended posting here, it makes it all the more refreshing to know there are Americans swimming against the tide over there. People like yourself, Wally, Steve etc. that have made themselves known here and remarkably know more about the cars than many of us here ever will.

    We have our dissenters here but I've not experienced the uninformed bile seen in some of those comments. . .

    Cheers
    Chris
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    I had read the comments Bill and intended posting here, it makes it all the more refreshing to know there are Americans swimming against the tide over there. People like yourself, Wally, Steve etc. that have made themselves known here and remarkably know more about the cars than many of us here ever will.

    We have our dissenters here but I've not experienced the uninformed bile seen in some of those comments. . .

    Cheers
    Chris
    I do get that it's a pretty polarizing car, and it's not for everyone. I just don't get the automatic hate "because, French". Unfortunately, I have experienced the uninformed bile, as you put it. The smart car enthusiast understands not only the car, but the attraction, or at least how the attraction for a particular make works for others. The more negative amongst us seriously need to learn how to read a bus schedule, and use it.

    Here in the US, we have to circle our wagons- we don't have the support the Europeans enjoy. On the other hand, that cloistered outlook has produced some pretty sharp tech guys like Carter Willey, Jerry Hathaway, Lon Price, Henry Hanzel, and so on. Every one of them I know, every one of them I highly respect.

    As an aside, I just got through yesterday (Monday) installing another harness into another 69.5 DS. Every damn piece on that car fought me!!
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    We have our dissenters here but I've not experienced the uninformed bile seen in some of those comments. . .

    Cheers
    Chris[/QUOTE]

    Yes, I was interested in those comments too. I think many people just love to have hate in their lives. And what a thing to eat yourself up over.. A bit of moving metal?
    Gillian and Chris

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    Oh, and a Holden.

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    I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT and I really like it...
    but I LOVE my DS...must be the no cup holder thing

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    Quote Originally Posted by misterd View Post
    I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT and I really like it...
    but I LOVE my DS...must be the no cup holder thing
    Americans generally have been anti-French and anti-Indian. You have done well to tempt their wrath with your DS and Cherokee.

    John

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misterd View Post
    I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT and I really like it...
    but I LOVE my DS...must be the no cup holder thing
    That's a pretty good sized chunk of Jeep. Daily driver, I'm assuming?
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by misterd View Post
    I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT and I really like it...
    but I LOVE my DS...must be the no cup holder thing
    Was it the Cherokee that was designed when Jeep was jointly owned by Renault and AMC?
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    That's a pretty good sized chunk of Jeep. Daily driver, I'm assuming?
    Ask him what it replaced and weep at the reply.

    Roger

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    Ask him what it replaced and weep at the reply.

    Roger
    I just googled the jeep to see what it is .... I hope for any owners sake those things are actaully fitted with brakes and decent suspension these days .... 344KW V8 with a 0-100 time of 4.9seconds That is probably faster than the modern ferrari and Lamborghini I drove last year
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

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    Remember, Shane, that the performance potential of vehicles is rarely achieved in reality. It doesn't matter what the size of your engine or indeed your bank balance, with only 13 points in credit on your licence, the ONLY drivers to obtain 100% of their vehicles performance are 2CV drivers.

    That Jeep ad on TV showing an overgrown backyard implies the owners have gone bush for a while. My backyard looks the same, but my wife explains to the neighbours that I am on my way home to mow it, but the car is a bit slow and I may be delayed.

    John

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