Initializing HF Remote. C3 Pluriel '04
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Thread: Initializing HF Remote. C3 Pluriel '04

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Initializing HF Remote. C3 Pluriel '04

    Ok, here's the tale, and first post of despair!.
    Got the car, which was due to be dismantled.
    All complete, just not working.... Period. Had mystery electrical issue 4 stealerships failed to rectify, so given the challenge, I bought it.
    It transpired that the illumnii had set it up as a Pluriel, not C3 Pluriel, and no one spotted it. There is a difference in the years, as one is a derivative of a C3, the other is purpose built, even though they look the same, the year of manufacture gave it away for me. So, promptly established it as a C3 with Pluriel additives, first turn of the key, and presto, instant hi range Pluriel with all the bells & whistles. Took it for a spin, setup the clutch... Which was also condemned!, and the seq'l gearbox is perfect, just an MA rather than a BE3/5(my all time favorite caja de cambios). Checked its changes, all good, corrected the interpretation of ABS some techie got wrong!... I just read the label, and deduced from the spec it did not have ESP, which was also attempted to be installed..... Just they missed the fact it wasn't on the car.... Period.
    So, that's the concatenated version, but I now am the proud owner of a beautiful Pluriel 1.6 16v. I figured out that the brake rotors were a measured 3mm beyond the wear limit, and changed them, along with the pads & shims for good measure, ....and decent pads to go with it all. Strange how they can be missed so obviously worn. The car travelled 300kms since the inspection, and was directed to the Bridge of Sighs shortly after!.
    The complete Valeo clutch I ordered 12 hrs premature sits in the house un-wanted, as I cannot find a fault with the one on the car.. And I do know when leClutch is not well, so it's now surplus to requirements.
    Fab car, only one key.... so I figured I'd give it three keys, 2 Plip ones(trapezoidal black, 2 bottoms with fixed blade), and a simple transponder key.
    Off it all went without a hitch, until..... Yes, the HFR refuses to knit itself into the car.
    Lexus sees the remote signal as unauthorized as I press the remote, every time. If the car goes to sleep, I press the remote, the relays click under the bonnet, and in the car, and the VAN sets the car up as ready, but no unlock and flash of the indicators, but the car, Lexia et al sees the remote transmission signal. Lexia does not see the remote as authorized, but sees the signal. The central locking works with Lexia and the dash center button, which has the 1hz flash rate. I lock the doors using the button and door closing, and all is locked tight. All the doors and boot/s locks function perfectly, and off it goes to sleep. BSI is not in backup mode, it all works as it should, auto wipers and light sensor for the headlamps. Everything works perfectly, and at 103kkms, it sounds and runs superb.
    Tried all the HFR sync tricks I can think of, but this defied logic. The car sees it all, but refuses to sync with its original, or another HFR I have, batteries are perfect on them too!. The only thing I could see was in Lexia, the reasons for keeping the VAN alive screen.... The HF Remote was not checked. It worked before setting up the three transponder and keys, but suddenly it now hates the HFR. Sees it, hears it, but ignores it. One remote, the #1 key worked before re-establishing the new keys and transponders, but Pepe refuses to Sync with it now!.
    Is this the respect I get for saving Pepe from the guillotine..... Or what am I missing???.
    Suggestions from people with a manual for that year of Pluriel, or those who have an inclin please.

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    Oh, and g'day to le Car people. Not the first Cit or Pug I've owned is my confession.

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Richi,

    After all those wins, why would you expect this car to allow you to have the icing too?

    A quick google found this post. Have you tried this?

    To reprogram the key fobs to the Citroen C3 BSI (or ECU) follow this procedure:

    Gather all the keys to the car and remove any loops or rings from the keys.
    Sit in the drivers seat with all the keys and all the doors shut, radio off, no lights, everything OFF
    Insert a key into the ignition
    Turn ON the ignition
    Press and hold the LOCK button on the key for TEN seconds
    Turn off the ignition and remove the key
    Insert the next key and repeat the procedure
    WAIT 1 minute, do NOT switch anything on.

    When the 1 minute is up, open the drivers door, exit the vehicle, close the door

    Test the keys each lock and unlock the doors.

    If the keyfob battery is flat you need a CR2016 its always worth having a spare to hand. The Lithium CR2016 last for years on the shelf (or in the drawer).

    Cheers,

    Ken W

  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    Hi Ken, I hear you.
    Trouble is security of the vehicle for insurance purposes.
    The Dr Google bore no fruit either.
    Tried immediately after re transponder keying!?, and with mins, hits and days! Elapsed..
    5 second and off, 10 seconds off.
    Before sleep, after asleep and simply waking the car as I attempt the all off, key on xx seconds, off and wait 30 seconds, one minute, 30 minutes and overnight.
    Fuses all good, lithium at full quantity, including use of higher capacity cells, all to no avail.
    The Diags see the transmission, the car sees the transmission, but refuses to sync or accept the remote.
    Tried resetting the car and remote for 48hrs too, to set both off at the same time to see if the two were so far apart in their own codes that longer than 10 seconds was needed. Gone as extreme as 1 minute.. All with stopwatch too, still nothing.

    The up -shot is, like many, is if it's not working or correct, one fixes it.
    Know how that slight misfire, or faint knock bugs you to investigate and rectify?.

  4. #4
    Tadpole
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    ... Forgot to mention.
    Orig HFRemote(which worked before adding more keys) and replacement HFR's have been permutated with keys, transponders & timing too.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Richi,

    I have heard that the radio receiver in the BSI can go wonky and not work with any remotes. Is it worth replacing the BSI just to get the remotes to work - I don't think so. Only other option then is to use the key to lock / unlock the car. Hopefully the central locking is still working so boot and fuel cap door locks work too and solve the security issue. This is what we are having to do with a Xsara series 2 in our family.

    Cheers,

    Ken W

  6. #6
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    Ok, it's a pain. I have just changed ECU, BSI & locked them together. Copied all configuration across, and it all works perfect. I get the impression that the receiver goes crazy too, where it can't filter off the data from the signal its receiving. Just sync' another HFR to it, using the techniques widely available on the Dr Google, and presto, it works.!thing is I was aiming for two remote, and one fixed transponder keys for it. I am not game to use more transponders and risk the similar scenario now.
    Car is back and running as it was designed to do at last. 3 weeks I wrestled with this pain, and literally tried every trick across the web etc, even one foot in the letter-box!!. The re-sync is the problem by the looks of it, as this matched set ran well before I put new keys to it, then it was game over.
    When you study how it re syncs, it has to be an NVRAM write issue. The car sees it, Lexia sees it, but cannot read the data off to load into memory to work.
    Bizarre!. Works well until you try to get more HFR's in the system, or put back what was working moments prior.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    I have also heard that you need really good car battery voltage if you are going to do software updates and change other parameters that get written to NVRAM. Might be worth trying to connect a nice smooth battery charger so the ECU has a couple more volts to play with during programming.

  8. #8
    Tadpole
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    Yeah, power was backed up with a new battery, which was fitted prior to my rescuing it. Brand new!. Also had the 20A fancy charger on it too. This is also the case when the clutch and gearbox selectors are being re-hashed.
    I guess it's like you say, the RF stage cannot, or looses its ability to filter data from the HSR signal as its received.
    I am, when conditions permit, going to have a look at the stage in the BSI that does all the code deciphering. It may be something relatively simpl. I note that the Citroen Technical allow a BSI change under the similar circumstances.

  9. #9
    don
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    This is very interesting
    having the same problem with My renault scenic.
    Ther you go guys Iv managed to get this post on all three message boards and didnt have to use a dealership or a lexia
    GreenBlood and addo like this.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Just to clear up an error which is being constantly repeated.

    RF vehicle remotes do not operate in the HF (high frequency, 3-30Mhz) radio spectrum

    All (OEM) vehicle remotes operate in the UHF band (ultra high frequency 300Mhz - 3Ghz)

    OEM Australian vehicles operate at nominal frequency 433 Mhz (acma allocate 433.05- 434.79 Mhz for such low power devices)

    Some Japanese vehicles operate at a nominal 315 Mhz, mainly older vehicles and imports ( ACMA have in the past given "closed eye" approval to such devices)

    I was faced with enrolling another remote for my Toyota (van) import. When faced when the exorbitant cost for a Toyota genuine remote I took the pragmatic approach:

    1) Monitored and captured the waveform from the receiver to the body computer with a storage oscilloscope.
    2) Deduced the timing and amplitude and "frame" repetition from the scope
    3) Programmed a $15 Arduino mini to provide the signal
    4) Used generic radio remotes and a receiver (from Oatley Electronics)
    5) Fitted the receiver/ pulse generator the car

    The whole job took a Saturday afternoon, once parts were at hand.

    It's been working perfectly daily for last 2 years.

    Just be aware, the buttons on remote may send different pulse trains which initiate different functions on the body computer.

    In my case one button unlocks the car, the second & third operate the L/R self opening doors at the back.

    So if you are up to speed technically it's not too hard to cobble up aftermarket remote systems.

    Initializing HF Remote. C3 Pluriel '04-mux-01.jpg

    This the signal that was duplicated.
    seasink likes this.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichieB View Post
    Ok, it's a pain. I have just changed ECU, BSI & locked them together. Copied all configuration across, and it all works perfect. I get the impression that the receiver goes crazy too, where it can't filter off the data from the signal its receiving. Just sync' another HFR to it, using the techniques widely available on the Dr Google, and presto, it works.!thing is I was aiming for two remote, and one fixed transponder keys for it. I am not game to use more transponders and risk the similar scenario now.
    Car is back and running as it was designed to do at last. 3 weeks I wrestled with this pain, and literally tried every trick across the web etc, even one foot in the letter-box!!. The re-sync is the problem by the looks of it, as this matched set ran well before I put new keys to it, then it was game over.
    When you study how it re syncs, it has to be an NVRAM write issue. The car sees it, Lexia sees it, but cannot read the data off to load into memory to work.
    Bizarre!. Works well until you try to get more HFR's in the system, or put back what was working moments prior.
    I'm in the same position. I used Lexia3 to add a new key and the result is that the old HFR is recognized but not identified. As you say , it seems to be that the BSI does not memorize the new generated code of the old HFR. Changing ECU and BSI seems to be expensive. I didn't try to select "initialize" the BSI on Lexia3 , I just used "learning keys" . What software procedure did you use after changing ECU and BSI?

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