Citroen 1981 CX Familiale - some tidying up
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    Default Citroen 1981 CX Familiale - some tidying up

    With the Whiteman Park Classic Car Show approaching I've booked the car in to have the pull to the left addressed. Hopefully it will be resolved quickly and I can finally have the inspection (that can only be done in Perth) With that in mind I've also been doing a bit of tidying up - started with wire brushing, rustproofing then painting the tow bar. Then I fitted a new tow ball as it didn't have one. Now I need to decide whether to leave the pair of pommie plugs and run a separate aussie one or remove the pommie ones altogether. Also put the car up and thought there was surface rust on the underside but all I can see is dust from the gravel driveway. But I did notice the bubbles along the bottom of the passenger side doors.Citroen 1981 CX Familiale - some tidying up-dsc0229.jpgCitroen 1981 CX Familiale - some tidying up-dsc0230.jpg After taking a screwdriver then the drill with a wire brush attached I can see the extent of the damage. I then gave the areas a liberal dose of Flood's "Penetrol" and have to wait 24hrs for it to form a skin ready for the next stage. A bit of bog should do and I'll sand it back before applying some primer then enamel. It will look a little unsightly as I don't have any of the matching paint but at least it will be protected until I get some. The last two pics show the leading edge of the bonnet. The bubbles were deceptive - not rust but a surplus of filler or painters putty that had been painted over - before it should have been sanded.

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    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
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    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
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  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    That must be a pommy import with the bonnet rust

    Your wasting your time with bog, that all needs to be cut out and new metal welded in. Yes same with the front bonnet edge too. There will be bog over rust in the front edge of that bonnet, I guarantee it.

    my pommie import:





















    Lots of fun right. Your going to get lots of practice with you MIG and metal shaping in the near future. You really need to check the car "underneath" first and make sure it's repairable.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    Fortunately mine seems to be free of that sort of damage Shane. What little rust there is is manageable.

    Yesterday the air intakes were removed and the fine trim for the steering was reset to zero. The steering column was loosened and disengaged to allow it to be moved two splines. Once reconnected out onto the road for a check. Now instead of a marked pull to the left it was tracking right. Back to the workshop, fine adjustment made and back on the road. It now sits well with just the very slightest right bias.

    Check of all lights, wipers, washers etc. Discover no reversing lights. Pull taillights off and find globes fine. No power to the reversing globe holder. Scour the gearbox area looking for the reversing light switch. After searching around located the cable and rectify the fault. Looking at the drip from the C-matic solenoid/actuator decide that a new gasket will hopefully stop the drip. Also suspect the solenoid "O" ring. Decide to leave until today.

    First thing this morning called into the exhaust centre to address a leak. Found it to be the front joint and the flange at the exhaust manifold. This is because one nut has dropped off and another is close to falling off. Only driven 1000kms since it was done! Recitfied it then off to replace the solenoid/actuator.

    While the solenoid/actuator is being removed I work on a section with heavy rust scale. At the left rear wheel someone has spot welded a piece of flat bar onto a section below the hydraulic suspension piston. Over time the moisture and salt has caused thick crust to distort the metal. Chipped all the flakes out with a screwdriver and hammer. Then flattened the remaining metal as best I could then applied a layer of bituminous gunk.

    Solenoid/actuator - five of six nuts came off relatively easily. The final one at the top wouldn't budge. Not prepared to risk shearing the stud a decision was made to revert to plan "C" - a block before the inspection station 'high' will be selected on the suspension so that I can reach under and wipe it off.

    Inspection booked for 07.30 tomorrow morning. Engine degreased, windscreen washer pump (worked all around Eire, across to Lapland and on to Paris) decided to stop. Power to the pump but no action. Bought a replacement but found it was for mounting in the base of a bottle. Had to go and chase one that drew from a feed tube. Super Cheap only stock bottom feed. Ended up getting the only one on the shelf at Repco. Heaps of bottom feed ones there but just the lone one I needed. After removing the old one, refitted the tubes and connectors I had to prime it before it finally gave a strong spray onto the windscreen.

    Got a bucket and washed the car and hopefully it will be right tomorrow.

    Wish me luck - I hope I get an inspector with a realistic approach to a 35 year old car.
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
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    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
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    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
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    Did you lock the control head with a rod and centre the rack when you moved the eccentric adjuster two splines? It's just that you need to ensure the control head is in exactly the straight ahead position or you can end up always fighting against it. If there is wear inside, it will wander a bit, but there is a reason for inserting a long rod into the control head to lock both the little green wheels inside it straight ahead. They are intended to move slightly relative to each other and will do so when there is no pressure, which is why you can move the steering wheel in a way that feels like the column is broken with no LHM pressure. Haynes has a picture of what to do and you'll have to remove the steering wheel.

    How is the solenoid base? They tend to drop, so the plunger inside is then unable to move the control valve enough to change gears.

  5. #5
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    Hi rmac,suggest you check rear arm bearings for cause of pulling to one side;had same on my cx and once replaced no probs,Andy.

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    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    FAIL

    1) Engine not clean enough - despite two washes yesterday. No oil on engine proper but LHM/oil gunk on underside behind engine. The engine and solenoid/actuator had very little sign of leaks when I wiped down before arriving at the examination centre. Just a smudge - no drips.
    2) Front left wheel has excessive 'movement' - wheel bearing? tie-rod? Can't be lower ball joint as its been replaced!
    3) Dribble of fluid (LHM?) down handbrake cable - inside front right guard. Wasn't there yesterday when the clean-up was done. Did the 'gunk' removal open an 'old wound'?
    4) replace fly wheel cover - doesn't look like there has been one for a long time

    With locating a VIN on the car fruitless it was suggested that I needed to stamp the number on the import papers onto the metal near where the handbook says it should be! ;-)
    The only other fly in the ointment was the request for an automotive engineer's certificate. As there are other CX wagon/familiales already on the road here I would have thought that such an inspection was un-necessary.

    Only positive note was that the followup inspection can be done locally now that the initial one has been done at a Department Centre.
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    So much pain for so little practical purpose.....

    At least there is another CX Estate in WA and it is registered, so that engineer's certificate might be easily demonstrated to be nonsense. David Whatshisname's.

    Good luck with the other stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by rmac View Post
    FAIL

    1) Engine not clean enough - despite two washes yesterday. No oil on engine proper but LHM/oil gunk on underside behind engine. The engine and solenoid/actuator had very little sign of leaks when I wiped down before arriving at the examination centre. Just a smudge - no drips.
    2) Front left wheel has excessive 'movement' - wheel bearing? tie-rod? Can't be lower ball joint as its been replaced!
    3) Dribble of fluid (LHM?) down handbrake cable - inside front right guard. Wasn't there yesterday when the clean-up was done. Did the 'gunk' removal open an 'old wound'?
    4) replace fly wheel cover - doesn't look like there has been one for a long time

    With locating a VIN on the car fruitless it was suggested that I needed to stamp the number on the import papers onto the metal near where the handbook says it should be! ;-)
    The only other fly in the ointment was the request for an automotive engineer's certificate. As there are other CX wagon/familiales already on the road here I would have thought that such an inspection was un-necessary.

    Only positive note was that the followup inspection can be done locally now that the initial one has been done at a Department Centre.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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    is the vin under paint? mine needed to be etched back to find?

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    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    The examiner used a wire brush to remove offending surface rust and paint and the plate appears to be blank. It was suggested that a 'forensic' examination, which is "destructive" (their word), was possible but at the end they simply suggested that I get metal stamps and restore the VIN. Can't argue with that. If I'd realised that this was a problem I'd have done it before the inspection.

    I'll dig out the rego from my previous 'Familiale' and try quoting the info to see if I can work around the engineers certificate.
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    I'd completely forgotten your white one!! Is it still in WA?
    JohnW

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    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    Geraldton
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    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmac View Post
    Geraldton
    That's right - I remember now. Hope it helps with the "engineer's report" requirement.

    Volcano permitting, we fly home tomorrow from Santiago to Sydney.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Jack the front left up at normal ride height. I have this theory... that unless you are aware of the last time the front end was rebuilt ..... then it will need rebuilding. I bet when you check it needs inner tie-rod joints (the outers seem to last forever), lower arm bushes and a top ball joint. If you have gone that far, no doubt the top arm bearings are on there way out too (there the same as rear arm bearings).

    Not hugely expensive to do, but they can be "fun" to get apart.

    You need to scare yourself a little toy MIG welder and start playing. There's not way you can bog up that sort of rust. It'll all just fall back out in 6months time

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    "Grace" the rusted CX in the shed has a 2200 engine. It has a dismantled engine scattered through the car. I've shuffled through the bits, found a loose flywheel but alas no cover. The engine in the car still has it but it is "on the ground" - literally as its now got flt tyres as well as the suspension at its lowest ebb and never likely to rise again. The Familiale has a 2400 C-matic - so I'm assuming it has a different flywheel cover! Does anyone have a spare flywheel cover to suit a 1981, 2400cc C-matic engined car please? If so what price to post to Denmark in WA. I've checked a couple of local sources without success.

    My fall back position is to remove the cover from my 1981 CX Pallas C-matic and fit it to the Familiale for the inspection!
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

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    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tip Shane re front end. I came home on the bus yesterday but will return to Perth on Thursday where I'll put the car back on a hoist and check out the LHS front wheel 'movement'.

    I've also been given a contact for an automotive engineer who may be sympathetic to my situation. Will telephone him tomorrow to see what my options are - and how much it is going to cost!

    I'm just using the bog and paint as a temporary measure. Our Machinery Restoration Group is extending the shed to include a workshop - complete with hoist. We've been having 'fun' with fire regulations. The latest is that DFES in Perth don't like the flow rate at the hydrant (newly installed to service us) and want the gravel hard stand for fire appliances to be bitumenised. The council have suggested we build a fire wall between the shed and the workshop to bypass the DFES. Costs a heap and the firestop gyprock sheets are very heavy - too heavy for our brigade of geriatrics, especially to lift to over three metres.
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

  16. #16
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    You don't want or need a hoist to check the front end. You want the car on the ground, with just one wheel jacked up at normal ride height. With the wheels dangling you may not find the wear (as the suspension will be hanging down in the "high" position).

    The 2200 and 2400 engines should be all but identical, certainly the timing chain covers should be the same. I doubt there is much difference other than the piston/liner set is marginally bigger.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    I have several other issues to deal with and replacing the flywheel cover is better done with the car on a hoist. I avoid slipping under vehicles if I can avoid it - my back doesn't like it these days. The hoist enables one to raise or lower the vehicle to suit the job at hand.

    It looks like I'll have to find some way to lift "Grace" and I will have to slip under her to detach the flywheel cover. It means I'll have to drag everything I need across to the hay shed. Yes! That will include axle stands and my trusty pine log off-cuts - end pieces from strainer post trimming.
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    I managed to get "Grace" up off the ground and pulled the flywheel cover off. Had to remove the exhaust joint below the manifold to get access to the final bolt but managed to get it off. Now I have to see if it will fit the car (which is in Perth) Will do that Friday morning when the car is on the hoist for replacement of the accumulator sphere.

    Thanks to aurine for the tip on a possible lead for the flywheel cover. A friend spent the day helping me with a few jobs and 'rode shotgun' as we lifted the CX2200 - placed two axle stands under plus two 8" dia pine off cuts to ensure the car was safe to slip under once the trolley jack pressure was released. It was great to have someone to hand me tools - saved my knees and back.
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

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    Good luck with the 2nd inspection rmac. The engineering inspection nonsense is clearly a beaurocratic bungle. Your vehicle is as it left the factory (in engineering terms anyway) so it can't be necessary. The trick will be to speak to the correct person at the registration authority. FWIW the two familiales in Victoria never needed other than the normal roadworthy certificate.
    When you are chasing down the latest oil drip, keep saying to yourself "It could be worse. It could be a rear main engine oil seal like John in Melbourne's auto familiale".
    2006 C5 2.0 HDI estate - daily driver
    1981 2CV - The Amelie project is complete.
    1930 C6F torpedo - My Great Folly! Project under way.

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    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    Will fit the flywheel cover tomorrow, replace the accumulator sphere, locate the LHM leak source dribbling down the handbrake cable and check the "movement" at the front LHS wheel. Then I will have the engineering certificate attended to before the Classic Car Show on Sunday. I'll then drive the car home to have the re-inspection done locally.
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

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    The LHM leak is probably the return line rubber 3-way connector atop the brake valve unit. There is a very short hose that bends back tightly to the top return outlet. Why they didn't internalise that extra or use a metal pipe is odd. The 2200 doesn't have it yet both these return lines have been the first to go on my CX's. Remove the RH wheel; un-clip the flap and it is an easy job with some rubber fuel line and new hose clamps.
    Citroen C5 II manual '05; C4 Exculsive '07; Citroen CX2200 Pallas '76; CX2400 C-matic Pallas '78

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    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    Thanks Jinandfonic for the tip. I'm just about to head off so will look at that first.
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

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    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    The LHM turned out to be the return line detached - re-attached and area cleaned up. Wheel movement is very slight play in the tie rod. Part ordered. Flywheel cover was correct so it is fitted. Leaks are minimal now. Slight dribble from bearing seal and evidence of a weep at the timing chain cover gasket. Underside comparatively clean for a LHM Citroen - and will do a bit more of a clean so that the engine area is clear - don't want to remove the "Citroen rustproofing".

    Automotive engineer was a no-show. Four and a half hours and three telephone calls going to message bank caused me some frustration. Emails are now being ignored so have decided to move on. Using the DoT website list emailed two more engineers - both emails bounced back. What the +#@>? Am slowly moving north of the river in search of someone to get the car certified - at a reasonable price! The only other quote I had was THREE times the price - for what is an hours work. It even talked about additional cost for a noise test!?!?! It's a stock standard car for +@#$'s sake!
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmac View Post
    Automotive engineer was a no-show. Four and a half hours and three telephone calls going to message bank caused me some frustration. Emails are now being ignored so have decided to move on. Using the DoT website list emailed two more engineers - both emails bounced back. What the +#@>? Am slowly moving north of the river in search of someone to get the car certified - at a reasonable price! The only other quote I had was THREE times the price - for what is an hours work. It even talked about additional cost for a noise test!?!?! It's a stock standard car for +@#$'s sake!
    Sounds like a standard "reality vs legislation" situation. Really, sounds ridiculous for what is a factory car and has similar examples already registered here.

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    After the abject failure last week - to get an engineer - there was some brighter news this morning. An early email from an engineer followed up by a telephone call led to a rushed departure. They could look at the car as soon as I could get there.

    Caught up in early morning traffic snarls in Perth but got there just after 09.00. Handed over VIA document and drove car to hoist. When lifted off the ground the wheels dropped and the return fluid overflowed from the LHM reservior leaving a puddle on the floor. Fellow doing the inspection hunted around for rags to mop up the mess.

    Yesterday started with the lights flashing on and off then stayiing on unless I was going around a corner. Added more LHM, with the suspension on high. Obviously overfilled going on this mornings happenings.

    After a cursory look at the underside back to ground level and on with the check list. By 09.55 I was away with the completed 2nd Ed. ADR Compliance Inspection Report in my hand - after handing over $330. Considering I driven to the bank to collect the cash they wanted not a bad earner for less than an hours work!!!!

    I forgot, I was asked to reverse the car until the exhaust was clear of the building. Then I ran the engine up to 3,000rpm while they waved a sound meter at the exhaust - passed!

    Now I'm off back home tomorrow and will have the re-inspection done by my local Inspection Station. The end is in sight!
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

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