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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    Default Dyane chassis

    Hi Everyone,

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    I've taken delivery of a Dyane, which I plan to take on the raid next year. The original plan was to get the ripple bonnet ready, but I've realised it would be just too much work in the time available.

    Slowly going through and making sure everything is perfect...

    The chassis has been replaced at some point, and a sump guard fitted. From the outside the chassis looks perfect, but I seen lots of warning about lurking rust. So where should I be looking and would it be worth cutting some inspection holes to look in side?

    Cheers,
    AndrewDyane chassis-20150403_104216%5B1%5D.jpg

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  2. #2
    JBN
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    Softly bang a rubber mallet (or the palm of you hand) under the chassis to see if you can hear flaking rust moving. The main area that rusts is under the passengers feet, in a crescent shape. This is because 2CVs/Dyanes sit bum up so any water that gets into the chassis ends up at the front. The passengers side is parked next to the kerb, so any water moves to that side of the car.

    If you don't have the tell tale crescent of rust visible from under the car, and you don't have any rust holes, unscrew the front seat belt floor mounts and put a few litres of oil through the holes. Sump oil, fish oil, filtered virgin olive oil (there are better use for virgins than stopping a chassis rusting) should keep the rust at bay. Go for a good drive around sharp corners to distribute the oil.

    If you DID need a new chassis, 2CViking in France is sending out a container later this year with such items in preparation of RAID 2016. Contact him.

    John
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  3. #3
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewj View Post
    Hi Everyone,

    I've taken delivery of a Dyane, which I plan to take on the raid next year. The original plan was to get the ripple bonnet ready, but I've realised it would be just too much work in the time available.

    Slowly going through and making sure everything is perfect...

    The chassis has been replaced at some point, and a sump guard fitted. From the outside the chassis looks perfect, but I seen lots of warning about lurking rust. So where should I be looking and would it be worth cutting some inspection holes to look in side?

    Cheers,
    AndrewClick image for larger version. 

Name:	20150403_104216[1].jpg 
Views:	365 
Size:	100.7 KB 
ID:	68285
    Goodonya on your purchase.

    About rust, they're like any other A Series- they can and do rust just about everywhere. The worst of it is usually where the firewall meets the toeboards up front, the floorboards where they join the chassis and the tire well in the trunk. If you want to check your chassis for rust, take a body pick hammer and tap all along where the side rails meet the sheet metal middle. If there is any real rust though, you'll probably see it. That sheet metal is pretty thin. Also, carefully check around the windshield frame and at the bottom of the door posts.

    There aren't too many places for rust to hide on a Dyane. The body is pretty open inside and out, and the interior can be stripped out in about 10 minutes. The sheet metal middle of the frame can be cut open to inspect, but be certain to replace it. How old is the frame? A frame completely giving up due to rust is fairly uncommon.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Hi JBN and HRE,

    Thanks for the practical advice -I'll get it up on the ramps over the next few days and have a look.

    There is some rust damage to the drivers side floor (like you say, water running down hill). Also spots around the windows in the doors and the windscreen. Just finished the doors and moving onto the windscreen and windows next week.Dyane chassis-20150403_184408%5B1%5D.jpgDyane chassis-20150403_184421%5B1%5D.jpgAttachment 68328

    Will give Viking a call - got a few larger bits and pieces that I'd like to replace before heading out...

    Cheers,
    Andrew
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dyane chassis-20150403_184452%5B1%5D.jpg  

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

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    JBN
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    I suggest you drill two 1/4" holes, one on the passenger's front floor, the other on the driver's front floor. The place to drill them is the crossroad of the gullies in the floor grooves. Pull back the rubber mat and in the front corner of the floor, just before the sloping footboard, you will see the spot.

    Doing this will drain the interior of the car if water finds its way in. For a Raid car, find two suitable rubber plugs and drill the hole to accomodate. That way you can plug them closed for creek crossing and unplug them if you had poor door seals and you inadvertently have dredged the creek.

    John

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    Jeez, Raid car makes me tremble.
    All i I think is bashed to shit with stickers and crap all over it.
    That car looks lovely and original. Why not leave it and restore to make original?
    They are SO rare in this country. Here we are talking about them like they are common - just pick up a Dyanne. Never.
    My negative two cents worth..I am certain disagreement will follow. Worldwide, these cars must be rare.
    One step further now, there must be less than say 200 in Australia.
    Andrew J, go for it. But I hope it gets looked after in the end. You have a beautiful little car there and I am concerned as a lover - I hope you can see where I am coming from. Chris M

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    1000+ Posts dogboy's Avatar
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    if driven sensibly it's uncommon to damage your 2CV on the RAID...
    There are a few battered/stickered 2CV's but they were already like that!!
    fear not the road ahead.....
    Rev. Dogboy


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    JBN
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    The Dyane is a more practical Raid car than a 2CV. The spare wheel is easy to access when the car is packed with camping gear. The camping gear is easily accessed as its a hatchback. If you use it for Raid 2016, forget the rust around the windscreen and the existing dents. Just concentrate on the chassis, suspension, steering and engine.

    After the Raid, you can firstly clean out all the red dust and then concentrate on removing rust from the body of the car. It won't have gotten much worse during the year.

    Shod the car with cheap Nankang 135/15 and keep the Michelin X 125/15 (if that is what is on the car) until after Raid. They are a hopeless tyre in stony conditions, but brilliant on bitumen (depending upon tread depth).

    Life is to be lived. We all pay the same price when we die. Get your money's worth now. The car was designed to be used and since the 2CV family appeals to nutcases, act the part and enjoy the fun of being with like minded lunatics in the middle of Australia (far from the mental institutions).

    John

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    +1 to the JBN remarks about tires as well as living now. Wish I could go too.

  10. #10
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    Default Dyane and 2cv

    Like q and a, perhaps taken as a comment or an opinion. Great to look at other angles as I feel others here are all for the smash and bash.

    i cannot get in my head, why rare cars like 2Cv or Dyanne are subjected to this. What the attraction is.

    They are are not built anymore like when then RAID came about. But I suppose with plentiful parts, they can be put back if desired.

    It must be more than the car, perhaps the people. Maybe that is what it is about. The car just gets you there.

    Anyway, over and out. Hope it goes well and the car survives. I am certain it will

    Chris M

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    Worry not Q - will be gentle with it.

    As JBN suggests, focus is on mechanicals in preparation for it's little adventure.

    Despite the knocked around appearance, there is thick, original paint under a crappy respray. So after it's little adventure, I plan to carefully rub it back and bring it back to its former glory...

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Cars are meant to be driven, use as the makers intended. The Prestige was filthy when it returned from the Flinders Ranges jaunt, a thorough clean bought it back to its good condition, not perfect mind. If I had a car that was perfectly restored and clean I would go nuts. I love to look and admire too, but imagine having one in the garage, never taking it out lest you drive over a puddle and get dirt on it. As long as you don't scratch the paint too bad, no damage will be done to the Dyane and you have the joyous job of a very thorough clean afterwards. Highly recommended.
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    JBN
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    Maybe when the Dyane returns from Raid and you look at rust removal, you may need to get another windscreen panel. If this were to happen, consider having the whole car resprayed in two pack. This looks great and will continue to look great for decades. I had a 2CV resprayed after it was damaged being shipped from the UK. I also wanted to change the colour. Twenty years later, the paint looks stunning and gets many admiring glances and comments. The original paint was crap. Budget level to match the car's price.

    Unfortunately, rust has appeared in all the usual places but I don't have the money to rectify it. I have a new windscreen surround complete with bonnet hinge waiting.

    The car reminds me of Neil Young's album - "Rust Never Sleeps".
    The solution is Abba's "Money, Money, Money".
    I am just whistling Dixie.

    John

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    Ok, here is what I found. This is the drivers side front... also a healthy rattling noise from rust flakes when I bash it. Passenger side and back is not showing any symptoms...

    It looks like the chassis has been given the oil treatment already, but not before holes had got through the bottom plate.

    So the question is, is it worth attempting a repair, I am I up for a new chassis?

    Cheers,
    Andrew

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

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    Andrew
    often the rust in chassis is worse than it looks. If you were using the car for ordinary use then a repair may be sufficient (going on the pictures you have shown, though it is always hard to tell from them).

    However you will be going into some rough territory and where you will be a long way from civilisation. I know that the support guys can and do do marvellous work on the raids, but ask yourself what would be the case if the worse happens, i.e. after a severe pounding on corrugated roads for hundreds of kms and then the chassis breaks in two. When the chassis is beginning to sag and break an earlywarning sign is the steering getting heavier and the steering wheel angle drooping. This is caused by the chassis tearing under the front sill/doors and hence the weight being taken on the steering column. The more it sags the heavier it gets. Once broken - well you get the picture. At least that is how it happens on a 2CV. The Dyane has more meat in the body but substantially it will follow the same path.

    I fear you may then be stuck, even with the best will in the world the repairs may not then last to get you out if there is not enough metal to start with. And what a load to put upon yourself and others.

    For me the prudent thing to do would be to get an opinion from an experienced raider in your locale. Have them do a good prod and poke around and listen to what they say. There may be a repair for the areas that are weak, or it may mean a new chassis. I would certainly seek someone to inspect your chase in real life and not rely upon advice based on the photos you have posted. Too many uncertainties and too much room for error, even with the best will in the world.

    But it is up to you in the end, though don't the raids have inspections of vehicles before they are allowed to go? You may get some more responses when people return from Citin after today.

    good luck with whatever you decide, repair or rechassis
    Peter
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    One of the keys to having an enjoyable raid is to spend the evenings sitting around the campfire instead of being buried under the bonnet of your car. The best way you can do this is to be considerably fortunate and to have your car well prepared.

    Far better to do the work at home in the convenience of your own garage rather than in much less comfortable conditions in the sand late at night so that you can continue the next day. Others will help you get your car sorted but they would rather be sitting around the fire too.

    While I am on raid preparation, look under the car for the cross-box exhaust muffler. If this muffler protrudes below the line of the chassis and or the engine plate, it also should be protected. Otherwise its likely to be damaged by rocks and anything else that comes into contact with the underneath of the car. In addition, the engine guard should stop dried grass from getting into the engine bay and coming into contact with the cross box where its likely to be a fire hazzard.

    Good move starting the raid preparation early
    Ian

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian S View Post
    One of the keys to having an enjoyable raid is to spend the evenings sitting around the campfire instead of being buried under the bonnet of your car. The best way you can do this is to be considerably fortunate and to have your car well prepared.

    Far better to do the work at home in the convenience of your own garage rather than in much less comfortable conditions in the sand late at night so that you can continue the next day. Others will help you get your car sorted but they would rather be sitting around the fire too.

    While I am on raid preparation, look under the car for the cross-box exhaust muffler. If this muffler protrudes below the line of the chassis and or the engine plate, it also should be protected. Otherwise its likely to be damaged by rocks and anything else that comes into contact with the underneath of the car. In addition, the engine guard should stop dried grass from getting into the engine bay and coming into contact with the cross box where its likely to be a fire hazzard.

    Good move starting the raid preparation early
    Ian
    As Ian said...
    The RAID site by memory provides info on vehicle preparation...my 2CV was gone over & modified by David Gries (gricy) prior to RAID
    As pointed out..this helps keep breakdowns to a minimum...
    A good chassis is essential,a maintained car,fuel tank and sump guards,normal air cleaner removed and oil bath type filter installed...
    that is cleaned out in petrol every so often and re-oiled (to trap dust)
    main aim is to keep weight down as that is a killer of your 2CV...
    drive to the conditions...keep your distance from the dust cloud in front and slow down!!!!!!
    why do it in a 2CV? to be close to the experience...not insulated from it
    Rev. Dogboy


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    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Hey Andrew, do you have a garage in which to work on this yet ?


    Via the aussiefrogs App
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    1000+ Posts dogboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce H View Post
    Hey Andrew, do you have a garage in which to work on this yet ?


    Via the aussiefrogs App
    Hi Bruce
    I have a garage and 2 car ports at the new place but more importantly I now have 5 1/2 acres to build the new huge BARN
    so the fleet may get to grow in the coming years....
    Rev. Dogboy


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  20. #20
    JBN
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    It is time to replace the chassis. Not only in preparation for Raid, but also because Peter Fosselius (aka 2CViking) will be sending a container from France with some chassis and other hard to transport bits an pieces. He will send a 2CV hatchback kit for me as they are awkward and very expensive to send as a single item, but take negligible space in a container. Get in contact with him 2CViking - 2CV Parts & Service and checkout the price. You would have to wait another 4 years for a similar container load. Now is the time to bite the bullet.

    A new chassis is a great way to prepare a Raid car. You have to remove the body (very straightforward). Get a couple of 4X2 lengths of timber a four large drums (20 gallon is good). Slip the timber under the body roughly where the suspension tubes lie and place them on the drums. Now you can roll the chassis away.

    Apart from replacing the chassis, this is the time to check/grease the swing arm bearings on the suspension tube. A good opportunity to check the steering rack, track rods, steering arms. The engine/gearbox and all the suspension is very easy to get to. Its also a great time to repaint the suspension (and indeed the new chassis) with something like a Rustguard Epoxy paint. After the paint dries, use gaffa tape to tape the rear brake hydraulic lines to the swing arm to prevent vegetation from tearing them away.

    With the body removed, this is a great opportunity to derust it, paint it and then spray on sound deadener (stone protection). You don't oftem have the opportunity to do this job properly with the body attached to the chassis. Remember, the rust is often where body and chassis joins and invisible normally.

    Te benefits of this midlife rebuild will leave you with a car that will last decades in the Australian climate. Remember to pour oil into the new chassis.

    John

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    Thankyou everyone for advice. Will get going on ordering a new chassis

    Bruce, shed is on the way at last - got building materials etc to match the house, site is cleared of dead GSes + Building approval for 16x8m . Just waiting on quotes from builders

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  22. #22
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    I did this to my car on the 2012 Viking Raid, on top of Big Red.
    I had just rebuilt the car from ground up after 4 yrs
    Luv'd every minute of it!
    Kermit sand: http://youtu.be/GvGK-2ohRLg

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    Look like the interior support is gone as per usual. Flip the Dyane on its side, remove the bottom plate and repair the rails. At the same time reinforce the sides (from suspension mounts to steering rack bolts) If you find the chassis is too bad, I include a new chassis for you in the next shipment. Better is to ''use up'' the chassis on the raid and replace afterwards (if needed) And don't worry a Dyane is just as good as 2cv for raiding. It is your machine and can do whatever you like. Europe is just up the road, can ship whatever you want/need in the future. Main thing is to slow down and not drive like an idiot. You will get through the raid OK with or without the need of the support team. Keep dreaming Salute Mad Viking
    Quote Originally Posted by andrewj View Post
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    Ok, here is what I found. This is the drivers side front... also a healthy rattling noise from rust flakes when I bash it. Passenger side and back is not showing any symptoms...

    It looks like the chassis has been given the oil treatment already, but not before holes had got through the bottom plate.

    So the question is, is it worth attempting a repair, I am I up for a new chassis?

    Cheers,
    Andrew

  24. #24
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    Ok, the raid is getting closer and work is busy, so I have money but not time. So time to order a new chassis.

    I have another 2cv with a dead chassis, so the old one will be repaired if possible and put to good use.

    Was going to one in the Viking container, but it is going to Brisbane (and I am in Hobart) and I didn't think it would be fair to lean on others to get it through customers etc.etc.

    So far 2CVcity looks like being by far the most cost effective. Does anyone have experience with their galvanized chassis in raid conditions?

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  25. #25
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    'Viking has said it could probably be repaired. I'd tilt it on it's side, drop the bottom plate out and start welding as he suggests The positive is you can still drive it and it's a basically cost free repair (and you'll know how well/poorly it's repaired).

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