C 4 battery problem
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Thread: C 4 battery problem

  1. #1
    don
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    Default C 4 battery problem

    Hi all
    Had my C4 hold up in our winery building for the last 2 weeks and haven't driven it.
    On Tuesday I started the car and moved it outside ready to leave for home in Newcastle.

    Packed up ready to go and Citroen NO GO.

    With all the bells and whistles and diagnostic abilities, features built into these cars wouldn't it be great to know that the battery has a bad cell and is about to fail.

    Any way for the record - turn key solenoid kicks and releases dashes all go blank and lots of little clicks from under the dash and engine bay ( the sound of dyeing flamenco dancers I would guess ).

    Turn on lights hit starter, No lights No dash more dyeing flamenco dancers clicking, Pretty obvious battery problem.

    Connect alternate flamenco dancer energy source and hay presto instant Russian ballet including full symphony orchestra on 106 .1 ABC FM. But Citroen now has hangover and cant remember what day it is and wishes to speak in tongues. So reset the vehicle configuration, and gave the flamenco dancers their matching orders to the sound of the brass band TU5JP4 ( not available on EMI label)

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    Accelerate to drive away at low rpm and the conductor says STOP the bus with the usual beeps, lights and whistles. Rev a little more and drive home with bad battery cell. Got home turned off ignition and tried to start with the same surround sound experience as 1 hour before.

    Next day trip to auto store for new battery $175 a century unit, and all is well.

    The replaced battery was fitted in 2010 after failing a load test so I guess its about time.

    We really haven't progressed that far with automotive electronics just made it harder to self diagnose.

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    We really haven't progressed that far with automotive electronics just made it harder to self diagnose.
    Next you will be asking for a car that runs without fuel.

    The "clicking" starter solenoid is the dead give away it's a battery. It's been a classic sign since time immemorial.

    If you ain't got power nothing can work.

  3. #3
    don
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    not the solenoid that clicked bur every other relay or electrical device with contacts
    NOT QUITE as simple as the pictured 404 device
    which is my point !!!!!!!!!!
    and to note
    I did the arc test on poles after removing the battery and it didn't have a single Volt. Totally inert
    In All my years of electrics Ive never seen a battery go from tired to dead so quick
    Last edited by don; 9th March 2015 at 12:37 PM.

  4. #4
    UFO
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    Default

    My XM once lit up like a Xmas tree with castanets as the battery failed. Very exciting while sitting at traffic lights.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  5. #5
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    My XM once lit up like a Xmas tree with castanets as the battery failed. Very exciting while sitting at traffic lights.
    Jeeze Craig, you say that and I get this vision of Carmen Miranda.
    addo likes this.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Hey Hotrod, these young bloods wouldn't have a clue who Carmen Miranda was, or her fruity attire.

  7. #7
    don
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    And yes robmac the french car that runs without fuel would be very beneficial to the environment around my wallet.
    But I would still need some volts stored in a black plastic box so carmen miranda can do her thing every 5 years or so.

  8. #8
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenut View Post
    Hey Hotrod, these young bloods wouldn't have a clue who Carmen Miranda was, or her fruity attire.
    Well, the title on my avatar does say "old fart apprentice". But you referenced it, so that's close enough.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  9. #9
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Icon12 Gatinhos Brasilieros

    You've now given me a "Desafinado" earworm.

  10. #10
    Tadpole
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    check the output voltage of the alternator if it is high it will kill a battery very quick and mess up dash lights and guages have found this several times in the past
    Hotrodelectric likes this.

  11. #11
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    Just for Addo
    C 4  battery problem-earworm.png
    addo likes this.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    not the solenoid that clicked bur every other relay or electrical device with contacts
    NOT QUITE as simple as the pictured 404 device
    which is my point !!!!!!!!!!
    In electronics it a variation of "race" condition. ie Two functions compete with each other to perform.

    The number of devices doesn't matter it's the symptom that gives away what is going on.

    The sequence of events is this:

    1) The battery voltage is low.

    2) You turn on the ignition and the relays associated with the BSI computer are powered albeit at reduced voltage. They energize.

    3) You turn to the crank position which powers the starter.

    4) The extra load causes the battery voltage to fall below the hold-in voltage of the relays and possibly the solenoid.

    5) The relays release causing the clicking noise

    6) The battery voltage increases because the load is removed.

    7) If you continue to hold the key in the "start" position the sequence 3, 4,5 & 6 will continue until the battery is absolutely discharged and then nothing will happen at all.

    If you think about it, it situation is very similar to seeing the interior light on the 404 dim and solenoid rattle when you try to crank your 404 with a crook battery.

    But because there is BSI computer and a heap of relays the relays click instead of the light dimming.

    I'm not trying to be prickkie, I'm trying to explain the reason for sequence of events you observed.

  13. #13
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    You've now given me a "Desafinado" earworm.
    I do what I can.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  14. #14
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy bram View Post
    check the output voltage of the alternator if it is high it will kill a battery very quick and mess up dash lights and guages have found this several times in the past
    Excellent point, too easy to check.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by don View Post
    not the solenoid that clicked bur every other relay or electrical device with contacts
    NOT QUITE as simple as the pictured 404 device
    which is my point !!!!!!!!!!
    and to note
    I did the arc test on poles after removing the battery and it didn't have a single Volt. Totally inert
    In All my years of electrics Ive never seen a battery go from tired to dead so quick
    Back in November our Scenic went from start first turn to nothing from one start to the next try only ten minutes later. Our 306 did it while parked for an hour once.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
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    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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