The D is misfiring - any ideas?
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Thread: The D is misfiring - any ideas?

  1. #1
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    Default The D is misfiring - any ideas?

    Hi all,
    Took the D on a run down to Portarlington on Sunday, about 300k there and back. It was a 37 degree day and I did have the a/c on for most of the ride putting extra strain on the motor...
    On the way back I we stopped in traffic and I noticed smoke so next chance I got, I pulled over.

    She was running really rough and struggled with accelerating poorly. This "smoke " smelt more like unburned fuel and I turned the a/c off and we limped home. This was a *very* slow trip as I could not accelerate well and while getting over the Westgate was bad, I was able to get a run up. Not so lucky in the tunnel as slow traffic in there meant I crawled out at about 35kph.

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    When I got home I pulled some leads off and found cyls 2 and 4 were not firing.. They seemed oiled up on top of the plug at the top and I wonder of this caused some sort of short? When I cleaned and replaced the plugs all seemed to improve but I'm not completely sure it's right. Got to change the oil so looking at Penrite as I've been told it's thicker and better for older cars plus new ngk iridium plugs.. Is there anything you wise people can suggest as I'm thinking it's more than plug failure...Oil doesn't just get in the sparkplug tubes without a reason.

    Also, thinking of doing a compression test to rule out the head and/or rings. Surprising as I've done less than 10,000k since rebuild.
    Any ideas welcome.
    Cheers,
    Rob

  2. #2
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Ooooh . . . guess the diagnosis

    I'd be looking for a hairline crack in the distributor cap. . .

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    How's your dwell?

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    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    has the head been retightened?

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    Hi Rob I think that the oil in the Plug tubes is a red herring,as its linked with the oil seals on the plug tubes,unlikely to cause a short.Was your Motor running at a sensible temp,many D,s would have trouble in those conditions.More diagnosis required!
    Woody

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I didn't see any 'D' in portarlington ...... And I was there all weekend. I did see a zephyr 6 and a yellow corvette though

    anyway, we need more information .... Is she fuel injected 2 cylinders down screams to me the injection points in the dizzie aren't firing ...

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Funny thing is when I pulled out the leads from the dizzie on 2 & 4 there was no change...but when I put them close to the dizzie and I could see the spark arching from the cap to the lead it seemed to run smoother?

    Shane, I was there around Mid-day parked on the beach side of the park opposite the Grand Hotel.

    Naturally aspirated, she would have been running hot as the temp was ridiculous and I had the air-cond on...
    I will check the cap but I think first thing is to get myself a compression tester...

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Is it running fine now it's cooled down I've had coils go heat sensative before dying in the distant future.

    check the impedance of the HT leads too. I had new leads and plugs in the pink car .... and it wouldn't run right after it had done maybe 500kms. I found the new coil -> dizzie lead was already dead and had very high resistance
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Your plugs should provide the clues. Whilst 2 & 4 had oil on top, did they show oil in the firing zone or soot ?
    Oil fowling would indicate excessive oil in the cylinder causing the plugs to fowl.
    Soot would suggest fowling because the plugs failed to fire through some external electrical failure .
    Since 2 & 4 are adjacent in the distributor cap, I would start there if you suspect electrical failure.

    Richard

  10. #10
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    If the oil in the plug tubes is there for a while it can cause the spark to leak down the plug insulator
    My D did this and was fixed with a new set of plugs
    Once the HT leaks down the plug cleaning usually is not effective as apath has been ceated

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    Oil in the plug wells means the spark tube seals in the rocker box cover are shot. Easy, cheap fix.

    Doing the Daffy Duck dance with the AussieFrogs app and a cane.

  12. #12
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Ooooh . . . guess the diagnosis

    I'd be looking for a hairline crack in the distributor cap. . .

    Cheers
    Chris
    Something else to check for is carbon tracks in the cap.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    What about the dwell, HRE? Or are those ones self-compensating?

    Also, tappets.

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    What about the dwell, HRE? Or are those ones self-compensating?

    Also, tappets.
    I'm actually not sure. I would have thought once the static time was set, that would cover it. Curse you for forcing me to actually break out the manual and look!

    And yes- tappets/valve clearance settings. Too open/closed will cause misfire.

    The neat thing is everyone's suggestions are all easy to check and rectify.

    Edit- Yah, there is a dwell angle of 57 or 59 degrees (+/-2 degrees), depending on a Marchal or a Ducellier dizzy. Centrifugal advance varies according to YOM and dizzy type.
    Last edited by Hotrodelectric; 24th February 2015 at 10:35 PM.
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    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Glad you backed it up. I'd just gone off to look, all the various points seemed to have a wearing block on the movable arm. Heat will kill a marginal condenser, too.

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    Whoa!
    What a list of things to do.
    I can get plugs easily but any suggestions on a cap. leads plug tube seals?
    Anywhere I can get these fast in AU without having to go os?
    Ducellier distributor.
    Cheers,Rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by misterd View Post
    Whoa!
    What a list of things to do.
    I can get plugs easily but any suggestions on a cap. leads plug tube seals?
    Anywhere I can get these fast in AU without having to go os?
    Ducellier distributor.
    Cheers,Rob
    I would have thought the plug tube seals would have been replaced with the engine overhaul?

    Probably your best bet would be Roger Parker in Adelaide, DS Motors in Brisbane would also carry those items. With the distributor cap could a club member loan you a cap to help with diagnosis?

    Is the car still misfiring now that it has cooled?

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Hi Chris,
    Car seems much better. I'm not sure if the plug tube seals are the culprits but thought i'd change them just in case.
    I'll try Roger.
    Thanks for your help
    Rob

  19. #19
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misterd View Post
    Hi Chris,
    Car seems much better. I'm not sure if the plug tube seals are the culprits but thought i'd change them just in case.
    I'll try Roger.
    Thanks for your help
    Rob
    If you do have hairline a crack(s) in your distributor cap, symptoms may improve when the engine (and cap) is cool. My money is still on the cap.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! ScotFrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misterd View Post
    Whoa!
    What a list of things to do.
    I can get plugs easily but any suggestions on a cap. leads plug tube seals?
    Anywhere I can get these fast in AU without having to go os?
    Ducellier distributor.
    Cheers,Rob
    Hi Mister D. I bought the Pallas firewall shields from you some time ago. I may be able to return the favour now. When I bought my D it came fitted with an SEV Marchal distributor. The boot was stacked with bits one of which is a complete Ducellier distributor. I'll check it this weekend but it may be useful to you. Send me a PM if you think you can use it.

    SF

  21. #21
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    Hi all,
    Since the problems I have fitted a 123 distributor, had the carby overhauled, new plugs, leads etc. Hey I even got he the accumulator out and regassed it.
    Anyways the car has this odd misfire. Seems to be only when I'm using the indicators....sometimes when I indicate right, the orange alternator light glows too...could it be a wiring problem?
    Please let me know any of your ideas!
    Many thanks,
    Rob



    ps. I did have the spot lights wired the wrong way and the fuses didn't like it until I changed them around.

  22. #22
    Member Pommiefrog's Avatar
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    The indicators and the alternator are on the same circuit I believe, it could be a bad earthing problem. Check the condition of the earthing wires, good idea to undo and clean, if they looked frayed in any way replace. I even went to the trouble of fitting a thicker strap from the battery negative, I am glad I did as my original started smoking when I had a starter motor issue.
    Regards,

    George
    Leicestershire, England
    1971 DS21 EFI, Pallas, BVH, Blog:http://www.mypallas.net

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