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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! ScotFrog's Avatar
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    Default DS Air Duct

    I've been working on the Dee's air duct.
    Disassembled it; removed bifurcated rivets; removed staples; vinyl shroud (excellent condition) cleaned, soaked with Martha Gardener's wool wash followed by washing machine; sourced the correct bifurcated rivets; made a batch of wire staples; re-gasketed the starting handle glands; straightened, sanded, primed and painted the reinforcing steel strips; recut new hardboard backers; etc. etc. (About 12 hours so far)
    The main aluminium body was in reasonable shape, I thought, and after a couple of panel beating tickles I spent 2 hot afternoons with a bucket of water and 800 followed by 1200 wet and dry. I then bought a Bunnings polishing kit and started to polish the shroud. All this time I was studiously ignoring a small repair section where a metal crack had propagated from one corner. It had previously been riveted and I thought at first I would remove these rivets and do a tidier job. However now I look at it and look at how the rest of it is coming together I feel that a more professional repair is justified.DS Air Duct-duct1.jpg
    The split can be seen in the lower left corner running from the edge to the 'speednut' slots.
    2 questions.
    Has anyone tried to weld this material? It's thin and it's hi tensile so I'm reluctant to experiment.
    Or does anyone know of a service in Melbourne which they would entrust this job to?
    Even better, is there a donor car with an undamaged duct, just the aluminium part which could come my way, for a reasonable price that is. (I'm prepared to sacrifice 10 hours labour for this swap.)

    SF

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Hey Scott,
    that's something no-one's ever going to notice anyway. What I'd do is patch it somehow, probably using that heavy duty aluminium flashing you can get at bunnings, and laminate it in place with Tar paint, neatly of course. This would restore the air duct from leakage and mechanically hold it without rivets.
    This would do the job until I was able to source a replacement.
    This frees you up to address any bigger problems.
    Cheers...

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    12 hours eh?
    Mine took a solid 6 with 2 sets of skilled hands.
    On the bright side, they appear to last 40 years.

    I'm with George in that nobody, well almost nobody will ever notice.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotFrog View Post
    I've been working on the Dee's air duct.
    Disassembled it; removed bifurcated rivets; removed staples; vinyl shroud (excellent condition) cleaned, soaked with Martha Gardener's wool wash followed by washing machine; sourced the correct bifurcated rivets; made a batch of wire staples; re-gasketed the starting handle glands; straightened, sanded, primed and painted the reinforcing steel strips; recut new hardboard backers; etc. etc. (About 12 hours so far)
    The main aluminium body was in reasonable shape, I thought, and after a couple of panel beating tickles I spent 2 hot afternoons with a bucket of water and 800 followed by 1200 wet and dry. I then bought a Bunnings polishing kit and started to polish the shroud. All this time I was studiously ignoring a small repair section where a metal crack had propagated from one corner. It had previously been riveted and I thought at first I would remove these rivets and do a tidier job. However now I look at it and look at how the rest of it is coming together I feel that a more professional repair is justified.Click image for larger version. 

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    The split can be seen in the lower left corner running from the edge to the 'speednut' slots.
    2 questions.
    Has anyone tried to weld this material? It's thin and it's hi tensile so I'm reluctant to experiment.
    Or does anyone know of a service in Melbourne which they would entrust this job to?
    Even better, is there a donor car with an undamaged duct, just the aluminium part which could come my way, for a reasonable price that is. (I'm prepared to sacrifice 10 hours labour for this swap.)

    SF
    It it possible to do an "inside" patch ?

    IE bend, metal shape up a splint inside with a bit of overlap on the crack. The use sikaflex to bond the patch.

  5. #5
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    Bonding a patch from an aluminium can to the inside would make a tidy repair. There are different grades of Sikaflex, some designed to just seal and others for actual panel bonding. Or use a specific panel bonding adhesive as used in the panel trade to bond new panels on instead of welding. A few discreet rivets would also be a good idea.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Bonding a patch from an aluminium can to the inside would make a tidy repair. There are different grades of Sikaflex, some designed to just seal and others for actual panel bonding. Or use a specific panel bonding adhesive as used in the panel trade to bond new panels on instead of welding. A few discreet rivets would also be a good idea.
    Sikaflex 221 is the go. You won't need the rivets. If you need to hold in place use gaffa tape until the sikflex goes off.You are aiming for an even film between the materials
    Last edited by robmac; 8th February 2015 at 11:25 AM.

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    Nicely timed guys, one of my winter jobs. Thanks for all your trials and errors!
    Gillian and Chris

    74 D Special, and now a 74 Pallas 23 5 speed with air(maybe). And now a Cactus!

    Oh, and a Holden.

    Lasya, Tibetan goddess of the moon and beauty who carries a mirror.

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    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    Without dissuading you from the sika approach a bloke at the club here uses just a gas bottle with a torch and stick to weld up aluminium, you can get some aluminium cans to practice on! I'm going to have a go at this method soon when I have some time because I have some rare Swiss aliminium chairs that need fixing and if I can get the skills up will give it a go. I'll suss out what exact equipment to be used and let you know if interested but pretty basic set up apart from the actual skill level!

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    As above, look into aluminium brazing and dura fix. Apparently works on thin gauge aluminium, how thin I don't know but may be worth some research and finding out.

    That's a lot of hrs dedicated, if you've put similar time in the rest of the car it must be looking amazing!
    Regards,

    George
    Leicestershire, England
    1971 DS21 EFI, Pallas, BVH, Blog:http://www.mypallas.net

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    Fellow Frogger! ScotFrog's Avatar
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    Thanks for all responses.
    I think I'll go down the drinks can and torch welding route first. I hadn't thought about thin walled cans as a source for practice. The Sika fall back option is a good safe plan 'B' and you're right about that adhesive Sikaflex too. It's lethal.
    I'll report back with tale of grisly results or success.

    SF

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    Without dissuading you from the sika approach a bloke at the club here uses just a gas bottle with a torch and stick to weld up aluminium, you can get some aluminium cans to practice on! I'm going to have a go at this method soon when I have some time because I have some rare Swiss aliminium chairs that need fixing and if I can get the skills up will give it a go. I'll suss out what exact equipment to be used and let you know if interested but pretty basic set up apart from the actual skill level!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTD6bcFpRVs

    Formerly Henrob. Requires considerable practice to master.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! ScotFrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTD6bcFpRVs

    Formerly Henrob. Requires considerable practice to master.

    I'm sold.. Here goes nothing!

    SF

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    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    diggety dog that old boy he sure knows how to weld that aluminininium don't he now? Shucks. Yerse sireebob but that gonna need whole of practice ain't it yes sir.

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    If this is all you want to do, you are better to find another duct and not have to acquire the welding kit and cylinders. Henrob was formerly known as Dillon and it's a low pressure oxy-acetylene kit. It was sold by Amweld, but it seems they must have ended their connection with the product, although you can still see their videos on YouTube. As far as I know the coke can trick is a brazing / hard soldering process rather than welding and the stick is probably rather like Lumiweld.

    The cylinder deal at Bunnings requires a $199 deposit per cylinder and then costs $69 and $99 for a change over for oxygen and acetylene. In the longer term, it will save against BOC's rental charges, which would be about $15 per D cylinder each month.

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    No need to think difficult
    Just cut sheet aluminium and fix it with revet no need to be strong

    Or glue aluminium sheet over or under with epoxy JB

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    Fellow Frogger! ScotFrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    diggety dog that old boy he sure knows how to weld that aluminininium don't he now? Shucks. Yerse sireebob but that gonna need whole of practice ain't it yes sir.

    Hahahahaha! I can hear him now Steve. But seriously I wouldn't mind having a tenth of his skill level.

    SF

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    Fellow Frogger! ScotFrog's Avatar
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    I've thought of a third way which I think may be my compromise.
    I can turn up on the lathe a set of 4 small, very shallow countersink aluminium rivets. Drill out the 4 pop rivets in the photograph and counter bore the face side. I know I can peen these rivets via a repair patch to the underside leaving the surfaces of the rivets flush with the topside surface then polish them and their surroundings so they can't be seen. The crack will still be there but if I carefully prep the site it should look like no more than a scratch.
    This will do until I get my donor car.... which hopefully will have an undamaged duct, plus other goodies.

    SF

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    If it's a Super 5, make sure you use the right tool for the job ;∑)

    Pommiefrog and ScotFrog like this.

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    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    You just need a bbq gas bottle

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    Fellow Frogger! ScotFrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    You just need a bbq gas bottle
    and a handful of prawns, some snags and some scotch fillet steak.

    SF

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    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    Torch, bbq bottle and some low heat aluminium rods and Bob's your transvestite Auntie....

    the beauty of it is you need to drink two cans of beer to use as practice material, if you get it wrong then simply drink another two cans of beer and so on.
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 9th February 2015 at 04:59 PM.

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    Fellow Frogger! geodon's Avatar
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    Bunnings have welding gas?

    No more rentals to BOC? Will they lose business as a result??

    I have MIG gas but haven't got oxy/acetylene due to BOC's exorbitant rental charges.

    As the late Norm Gallagher said when Mainline builders went belly up: "It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of bastards!"

    *BTW, your paint + KBS Diamond Clear did a great job on my Gordini power unit*
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    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    Torch, bbq bottle and some low heat aluminium rods and Bob's your transvestite Auntie....

    the beauty of it is you need to drink two cans of beer to use as practice material, if you get it wrong then simply drink another two cans of beer and so on.
    Yes.
    I have some aluminum rods here that you use with a propane torch. You can weld empty aluminum cans easily with them. Perfect for what you need.
    I can copy the instruction sheet and post a few of them down under for about what it will cost to purchase those beers.
    Lemme know.

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    Fellow Frogger! ScotFrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daffyduck View Post
    Yes.
    I have some aluminum rods here that you use with a propane torch. You can weld empty aluminum cans easily with them. Perfect for what you need.
    I can copy the instruction sheet and post a few of them down under for about what it will cost to purchase those beers.
    Lemme know.
    Daffy you are a gentleman like all on this forum. PM sent.

    SF

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    PM replied.

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