Xantia rising up problem
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Thread: Xantia rising up problem

  1. #1
    Member Houtan's Avatar
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    Default Xantia rising up problem

    Hi

    My Xantia`s rising up time becomes very slow. from lowest position to normal position takes 160 second!! I changed completely the LHM 10000 km before and LHM filters is clean. I checked pressure on the regulator with a gauge and pressure becomes up slowly but the hydraulic pressure on steering and brakes are ok and they working good, also I checked the Accumulator pressure, it becomes now 50 bar. I checked also the position of the car, in every position the car is 2 cm lowest than standard position. My xantia is Hydropenumatic S2 2.0 16V SX+air con.

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    My problem is that if Hydrolic pressure from pump have problem why brakes and steering working Ok and if my hight adjustment is wrong why rising from lowest to highest position is slowly too.

    anyone have any Idea about this problem?

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger
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    Check the feed hose to the pump for cracks to eliminate the possibility that it is sucking some air. However, I would think the most likely cause is that you have a few low or flat spheres and it takes time for the pump to fill them with LHM before th car can begin to rise.

    Being a late car, does it not have the anti-sink suspension system? If it does, it's evidently not working!

  3. #3
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Check the feed hose to the pump for cracks to eliminate the possibility that it is sucking some air. However, I would think the most likely cause is that you have a few low or flat spheres and it takes time for the pump to fill them with LHM before th car can begin to rise.

    Being a late car, does it not have the anti-sink suspension system? If it does, it's evidently not working!
    I agree with David. Check also the "anti-sink" sphere but be very careful when removing it as it is easy to twist the pipe where it is fastened into the sphere. Give the area where the pipe fitting screws into the sphere a good spray with WD40 the day before you try and remove it.

    Is the car hydractive, or the simpler suspension with only 4 suspension spheres, one accumulator and one "anti-sink" sphere in the middle at the rear?

    Good luck.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
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    Member Houtan's Avatar
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    Thanks David and John

    The car is hydropenumantic not a Hydractive and have anti-sink system, I changed the anti-sink sphere newly but I don`t check sphere`s pressure before installing it under the car, It was Original Citroen sphere but in old package. Also the five head pipe from LHM tank to hydraulic pump is completely new and Original Citroen part.

    When I set the car in lowest position than starting the car for rising up to normal position it takes 160 second, standard time for new car is be between 30-40 second. I checked 3 of my friends Xantias their time is between 45 to 57 second.

    I guess maybe the hydraulic pump have problems or the pressure coming back to LHM tank from regulator somehow for example when you have damaged ball bearing on the pressure relief screw it can happens.

  5. #5
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    What about the spheres at each corner? Are they low? That could explain the extra time required.

    Another possibility is debris in the height corrector, which would delay changes in height. You'd also see that in normal operation and the response to pushing one end down would also be slower than normal.

    Otherwise, could there be an internal leak in something like a front strut. This does happen, but they are a sealed unit.

    Does it stay in the up position when parked or does it sink? The anti-sink sphere is meant to compensate for slow leakage in the hydraulics. Once the anti-sink sphere is exhausted, it will sink. If it does this more rapidly than the other cars, it might suggest an internal leak. An internally worn brake valve is known to let the rear sink very quickly in cars without the anti-sink system, so that could be worth considering. The seals, including the small Teflon seal are available.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    They do take a long time to rise from totally depressurised on low. That is because the high pressure pump only has 2 cylinders. I rev my car to 2000 rpm to get it to come up quicker and even that still takes some time.

    With the anti-sink, good front struts and good spheres on my SX style wagon, I can hop in and get going quite quickly even after a few days sitting.

    Totally different story with my hydractive Activa though. There are some leaks in the activa bits that depressurise the front accumulators and suspension systems within a couple of hours and it takes some time to pump the front all back up so I have enough ground clearance to get going. At least the anti-sink is working well on the back though. One day I will get to replace that rear ram jack.

    Cheers,

    Ken W
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    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Hi Houtan, I agree with Ken,
    it's only a 2 cylinder pump on the suspension circuit. If you have the car de-pressurised it really does take some minutes to get the pressure back up again, nothing unusual about that. A few revs while it's pumping up will help.
    Good luck.
    One other thing, once it's actually up again, with the motor idling, check the movement both front and rear, the back suspension should be really soft up and down, and the front should too but the front movement will be a bit shorter, but MUST have some soft 'give' or bounce in it's movement. If there is no softness in the front, depressurise again and remove the front spheres, get them pressure tested or replace them , or regass them. 50 bar usually on the front ones.

    Cheers...

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    Member Houtan's Avatar
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    Suspension spheres are charged 6 month ago, front 55 bar, rear 35 bar, they are IHFS . but I guess I must check their pressure again.

    I know that the Xantia`s two cylinder part of hydraulic pump for suspension is weaker than older 5 or 7 cylinder hydraulic pumps but my 10 years old Xantia had rise up under 1 minute before this problem happens.

    I checked yesterday morning that what will happens if I rise the engine from Idel to 2000rpm. nothing better but the rising time goes over 3 minutes, It means it takes longer, so I think there is a leaking somewhere in system that when pressure comes up it leaks more.

    I will check both spheres and leaking.

    Cheers

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houtan View Post
    Suspension spheres are charged 6 month ago, front 55 bar, rear 35 bar, they are IHFS . but I guess I must check their pressure again.

    I know that the Xantia`s two cylinder part of hydraulic pump for suspension is weaker than older 5 or 7 cylinder hydraulic pumps but my 10 years old Xantia had rise up under 1 minute before this problem happens.

    I checked yesterday morning that what will happens if I rise the engine from Idel to 2000rpm. nothing better but the rising time goes over 3 minutes, It means it takes longer, so I think there is a leaking somewhere in system that when pressure comes up it leaks more.

    I will check both spheres and leaking.

    Cheers
    That sounds like something else going wrong there. If the rpm is increased the pump must pump faster. The accessory belt could be slipping, or probably the Crankshaft pulley ( the Harmonic Balance) might have internally collapsed. The HP pump takes quite a bit of energy to turn. The accessory belt runs off the Harmonic balance. If you increase the revs and the pump does not speed up the crank pulley is the only thing where the energy could be lost.
    I'd be replacing the crank pulley especially if the belt is ok .
    The outer ring of the crank pulley must be slipping . The rubber in between the outer and inner parts of the pulley can be dissolved by oils that come into contact with the pulley. If this is the case the pulley must be replaced.
    Good luck with it.
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  10. #10
    Member Houtan's Avatar
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    Good point George, I will check the crankshaft pulley.

    Cheers...

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Hi Houtan,
    Firstly if the drive to the pump is suspect wouldn't it be noisy (how to test)? Second is pressure leaking on the supply side and you said already you tested the pressure (what pressure does the regulator cut out at?) Do you get brakes and steering quickly then a lag on suspension? If so this could be due to not enough supply pressure to operate the safety valve and height correctors to push up the weight of the car. Thirdly is pressure leaking internally through these valves from wear? And my last question, once the car is up how does it respond if you stand on the bumpers front then rear? It still might be on the pressure side even if it is slow to react but a good practice would be to clean the height correctors and check linkages (especially as the height isn't as it should be) as described here: Xantia Height Corrector Overhaul: Page 1. Good luck, I spent 6 months working in the middle east and I missed my CitroŽns every day
    Regards, Andy

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Hi Houtan,
    anything like this is usually accompanied by lots of LHM leaking everywhere, and / or lots of loud unusual noises, squeaky sounds from the belt, etc. It might be as simple as time to replace the High Pressure pump. If you have changed all of the spheres but never the Anti - sinksphere that might be a good place to start. I took an anti sink sphere off a wreck , and tested it. It was at 50 bar, which like an accumulator, is at spec. I fitted it just before I sold my Xantia, and then realised I should have done that a few years earlier.
    Good luck with it.

  13. #13
    Member Houtan's Avatar
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    Today I overhaul both height correctors, rear anti-sink valve and adjust the height of the car and rising time becomes better, it is now takes 80 second from lowest position to normal position. but it needs a lot of works to become about 40 second, I will go for hydraulic pump, regulator, safety valve and spheres. I don`t know if I overhaul hydraulic pump its pressure becomes better or not, It`s now 10 years working.

    Andy, Thanks for the link, In my tests the regulator cuts out at 170 bar but it must cut out at 175 bar also the pressure gauge comes up very slowly, also after my services today if I sit on the trunk the car responds after one or two seconds I guess any height correctors problems now is solved.

    George, I changed the anti-sink sphere about 6 month ago but it was in old package and I don`t check the pressure before use,

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Houtan; 9th February 2015 at 06:29 AM.

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Good work Houtan, thanks for letting us know how you went. Were the height correctors full of the same gunk that is shown in that link? I know the HC's in my CX were full of crud as well as the front HC being a bit notchy presumably from wear to the sliding shaft.

    170 bar cut-out is the same as CX regulator plus or minus 5 bar so I'm guessing that is fine. Cut-in pressure should be 145 bar +/- 5 bar and perhaps this is important to measure too.

    What is the pump cycle time when the car has reached normal height at idle? That is the time from cut-in to cut-out as well as time from cut-out to cut-in. These times will be useful for others to see and diagnose and considering you have pressure measuring equipment you should test the safety valve too. More info here in the section "suspension": http://www.citroenkerho.fi/xantia/pd...niikkaopas.pdf

    I wish you all the best in finding a solution

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