Car Magazine UK Citroen DS Article
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Thread: Car Magazine UK Citroen DS Article

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    Default Car Magazine UK Citroen DS Article

    Car Magazine UK Citroen DS Article-ds-1.jpgCar Magazine UK Citroen DS Article-ds-2.jpgCar Magazine UK Citroen DS Article-ds-3.jpgCar Magazine UK Citroen DS Article-ds-4.jpgCar Magazine UK Citroen DS Article-ds-5.jpgCar Magazine UK Citroen DS Article-ds-6.jpgCar Magazine UK Citroen DS Article-ds-7.jpgCar Magazine UK Citroen DS Article-ds-8.jpgCar Magazine UK Citroen DS Article-ds-9.jpg

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    Fellow Frogger! mberry's Avatar
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    for anyone on Instagram you may want to check #pfandango, i think it could be the same chap. A rigorous feed of DS pics and they are usually of an exceptional quality.

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    thanks for posting the magazine article!

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    You're welcome. here are two pics I forgot to access on my iPod digital subscription.

    Car Magazine UK Citroen DS Article-ds-10.jpgCar Magazine UK Citroen DS Article-ds-11.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Car Magazine UK Citroen DS Article-ds-10.jpg   Car Magazine UK Citroen DS Article-ds-11.jpg  

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stopcat View Post
    You're welcome. here are two pics I forgot to access on my iPod digital subscription.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    those pictures show a crappy modern car and an ID19 not a DS Right now I've been a smarty pants ... I'll go read the article

    The difference and early ID19 and DS19 is quite a lot. The ID19 has heavy inefficient brakes with no booster, no power steering and no powered gearchange. It's quite heavy and unwieldy to drive compared to a ds19
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Beautifully written article. Is this the new Setright?
    Mine

    CX Prestige
    Toyota Prius

    In the family

    Xantia SX

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    Its a shame so many industrial designers seem to get their rocks off on manga and science fiction movies. Alot of design has improved in the last decade, but car styling? I guess I am completely disconnected from the Asian aesthetic...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    Beautifully written article. Is this the new Setright?
    I love Stephen Bayley's writing. He has a column in Octane - always the first thing I turn to when I open the magazine. I think different to Setright in that he doesn't really assess the dynamic merits of cars - but offers a different perspective just focussing on design elements and trends.

    Is it just me that thinks the new DS line is horrible in every way? Inside and out, they just look to me like a Hyundai on steroids. When the French no longer attempt technical innovation and can't do design as well as the Koreans, they really are lost.

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    A great article.
    if there was a buck in it I reckon the we could sell "foie Gras to Ronald McD"!
    recently moved to India for a year, no sign of any Citroens as yet. Starting to miss my ID19, I have a family member organised to take it for a short run each month. This 1961 Parisienne does have hydraulic brakes, we discovered that when we lost our fluid on an outing - no brakes. We test them every so often now. Also the steering is great, maybe a bit heavy parking but otherwise easy enough.
    if I see any Cits here in Mumbai I'll let you know.

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    I found someone for you to chew the cud with....
    Citroen DS in India

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citmad View Post
    A great article.
    if there was a buck in it I reckon the we could sell "foie Gras to Ronald McD"!
    recently moved to India for a year, no sign of any Citroens as yet. Starting to miss my ID19, I have a family member organised to take it for a short run each month. This 1961 Parisienne does have hydraulic brakes, we discovered that when we lost our fluid on an outing - no brakes. We test them every so often now. Also the steering is great, maybe a bit heavy parking but otherwise easy enough.
    if I see any Cits here in Mumbai I'll let you know.
    Hey your talking too a convert ... I have two ID19's that are drivers There's no denying a DS19 is what it's all about though. When you return, see if you can catch up with Roger W or Middlemoon at some point. Driving a DS with "hydraulic everything" will spoil owning a ID to a certain extent . To think these cars are 60years old now, they sure don't drive like a 60year old car

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    The advantage the DS had, and only for its gestation, was WW2. Doesn't mean we can't replicate the same conditions by locking engineers up away from market research groups with people telling us what they want. Nobody could have imagined the DS. We need something like that. Only two manufacturers have pulled something unimaginable out of the hat, Toyota with the Prius and Tesla with the Model S. Even these were not perfect examples. The first Prius looked like any other Japanese car before the function driven styling arrived, and the Model S looks too normal, too now, even though it claims better aerodynamics than the Prius.

    The fact that Citroen are using terms of "artistic feeling and creativity" shows they do not understand. That is what people were saying about the DS, not what the car was all about. The functional (aerodynamic) styling, ride comfort, braking, steering, 'automatic' gearbox and the most comfortable interior. You can continue on with these advances and improve on some, that is what makes the CX so good.

    I know what I think should come out of Citroen, and what we need. No 1 would be environmental performance, then comfort, safety and styling that is driven by function. Aerodynamics of course. Can we get below 0.2 and have the directional stability of a CX? But that that of course is missing the point. We need a car we can't imagine from Citroen
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    I've said it before I THINK we need city cars with a body like a ball that has a rubber like response so when we hit things the car just bounces off, extremely lightweight with huge impact tolerance, powered (fossil less) to a speed that can only reach the maximum legal limit. So you're driving in a bubble like vehicle that can't squash and tear you apart. But how? hmmm

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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    I've said it before I THINK we need city cars with a body like a ball that has a rubber like response so when we hit things the car just bounces off, extremely lightweight with huge impact tolerance, powered (fossil less) to a speed that can only reach the maximum legal limit. So you're driving in a bubble like vehicle that can't squash and tear you apart. But how? hmmm
    C4 Cactus with the atmo 1.2 3cyl is sort of like that, closest of any other car.

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    Oh LJK Setright is sorely missed, so many car reviewers these days seem to be semi-literate, especially Americans on Youtube. Did I mention Jay Leno? Oops. LJK was always a pleasure to read. May he rest in peace.
    Car Magazine UK Citroen DS Article-ljks3.jpg
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    The car that does this was invented by me in 2005 - the C0. Here is an article on it.


    The C0 or SEE-ZERO

    Way before the D5 appears we can expect the C0. This is the minimalist motoring vehicle to be marketed in the CitroÍn C range.

    A prototype has already been spotted on the Champs Elysťes. This detailed briefing comes from a draft press release found by hackers in a Paris PR agency’s computer.
    <Quote>
    The C0, introduced to meet the coming traffic regulations in France.

    Among its many retro echoes is the design specification, a revisit of the 2cv.
    It has to carry a woman and her partner back from the supermarket with a half dozen eggs and a rasher of bacon without breaking anything, including their bank overdraft.

    For safety, it has but one airbag – the body itself. It is inflatable to minimise parking problems and, in extremis, to counter car thieves it can be carried up to the office. When inflated, the size can be varied to suit the obesity and number of the passengers. There are 3.8 seats fitted to reflect the average family size.

    In the event of a collision from any direction, an over pressure valve operates automatically and gives a controlled deflation over 5 seconds. This gives a progressive crumple that will safeguard even the most fragile Swedish dummy in collisions up to 30kmh; this being twice the maximum road speed in Europe, to be introduced in 2008.

    Similarly, developing from the C6 pedestrian protection, being run down by one is comparable to being hit by a partially inflated beach ball.

    The styling is a mass produced version of a Peugeot design of which, alas, less than 400 were made back in the 1940’s. They still have the tooling costs to recover. The picture shows a disguised prototype in Peugeot version.

    It is actually being manufactured in a new factory in Tibet to access low cost labour and cheap infrastructure. The factory is a joint venture between Peugeot, Brother and Zodiac who each provide components and technology and will market similar cars under their own names.

    Brother are using their sewing machine expertise to provide the assembly plant and the electric motors in the transmission.

    Zodiac will provide the body and the lifesaving technology, while PSA provide the automotive know-how.

    A ground breaking braking system was proposed, based on a Zodiac sourced marine anchor but in view of the environment issues it has been replaced by a more conventional electric regenerative system.

    Various engine options are being proposed but the standard will be a 3X3 electric hybrid with a number of charging options.
    On board there is a single cylinder multi- fuel diesel which also provides additional acceleration. In view of the spiraling cost of refined diesel fuel it will run on canola and other vegetable oils including used frying oil, thanks to the technology of its built-in chip filter. To make sure that you leave home on a full charge, the diesel will run on town gas with a special in-garage adaptor.

    There is also an electric lead and charger supplied. The ECU includes a special warning indicator that stops the car accelerating if any of these are left connected on departure.

    Once mobile, the battery charge can be augmented by a flexible solar panel and by various optional fittings. These include a below ground collector for the Bordeaux tramways and an overhead collector for the Paris tramways. The factory has experimented with an overhead collector from the TGV lines but safety considerations will delay its introduction.

    For Bordeaux, Australia and other places with over production of wine, a still can be purchased that produces an economic alcohol on which the engine runs well, with just the occasional hiccup.

    The suspension is pneumatic using the body as a pressure reservoir. Passengers are advised to wear earplugs when driving over cobblestones.

    Electric motors are mounted on each wheel and the vehicle is steered electronically from a triangular joystick by varying the direction and speed of motion of all three wheels. In consequence parking is simplified by its ability to turn in its own length. In the event of an electronics failure the computer automatically goes to a default setting with all three wheels turned inwards to face the centre of inertia.

    Structural stiffness is provided by a semi rigid chassis based on an inverted umbrella geometry. When folded and the body deflated it offers a convenient package for storage and portability. One clever innovation is the boot. This is a fabric pocket at the rear, isolated from the central inflated passenger unit. It borrows from PVC anorak technology, as the whole car and umbrella fold back into it when it is turned inside out. The special feature of the CitroÍn version is that it coverts into a Modubox which allows you to take it into the supermarket with you.

    The interior trim is basic. It has no glove box or stowage or drink holders so that you cannot be stopped for eating a sandwich or swigging a Coke. It also has a cell phone blot out device to stop you using them while moving.
    It comes with a natty fluorescent yellow car cover which unzips into two safety vests. The joystick is removable and doubles as a compliant safety triangle.

    The seats are very ingenious and based on Chinese swimming pool furniture. Parts of the body fabric inflate to form the seats. To give grip to manage the modest side forces on cornering, they are coated with an electrostatic glue spray of mock velour fibres, offered in purple and green baize.

    Lighting is minimal but the reflective windscreen reverses the light from oncoming traffic to blind them instead of the driver and to illuminate the road, another safety innovation.

    The heating system is based on circulating the exhaust gases. The engine manufacturer has supported its claim that the exhaust is so clean that you can breathe it, by running it back through the cabin.

    As yet no air conditioning is envisaged. It is very energy demanding. However the need is limited, as with the 55 hour working week to come in 2007, users will be shopping well into the cool of the night.

    The price structure is based on the design brief. Its operating costs must not add more than 20 per cent to the cost of the shopping for an average distance to supermarket of 8kms. With diesel at 7 euros per litre, this will limit the selling price to a target of 45,000 euros.

    <End quote>

    Gerry Freed Dec 2005
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    'Thought Bubble'
    As an industrial designer I am inspired by Gerry's terms of reference for my car of the 21st century.
    Tongue in cheek maybe but there's a lot of food for thought there.
    I suspect that in the early 'let's think outside the square' days with the original DS team such wild thinking occurred with minimal or no input from marketing, accounts, sales, customer feedback groups etc.
    (Do I sound a tad cynical?)
    I believe that this train of thought ran an undisturbed course long enough to emerge reasonably unscathed in the Goddess form we love so well. Strong, talented personalities helped.

    I'm now thinking along the lines of a 'Segway beachball'.
    Seriously guys, it might not be THAT difficult.

    SF.

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    Thus.Car Magazine UK Citroen DS Article-20150123_tb-1.jpg

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    And from the stern.
    Just a couple of incidental details to nut out and we have a product?Car Magazine UK Citroen DS Article-20150123_tb-2.jpg

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    Need to get it in under 10000 euros Gerry!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    The car that does this was invented by me in 2005 - the C0. Here is an article on it.


    The C0 or SEE-ZERO

    Way before the D5 appears we can expect the C0. This is the minimalist motoring vehicle to be marketed in the CitroÍn C range.

    A prototype has already been spotted on the Champs Elysťes. This detailed briefing comes from a draft press release found by hackers in a Paris PR agency’s computer.
    <Quote>
    The C0, introduced to meet the coming traffic regulations in France.

    Among its many retro echoes is the design specification, a revisit of the 2cv.
    It has to carry a woman and her partner back from the supermarket with a half dozen eggs and a rasher of bacon without breaking anything, including their bank overdraft.

    Gerry Freed Dec 2005
    I can see an obvious flaw in the design specs, Gerry. Wrong place. Wrong time. Wrong culture.

    John

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    Another car where the stylists were kept far away was the 1970 Range Rover. Another clever industrial design, particularly as the brief was for rather a utilitarian vehicle. Subsequent models lost their way as the stylists got on board.

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    The Original DS turned up on the wrong planet but 1.5million give or take a bunch saw the light! So a car like Gerry's is worth investing some bloody R&D into! Its a fairly simple theory really. Pity I don't own a car company...you'd all be driving low powered simple bubble cars. Save for anything pre 1998 with two chevrons slapped on it.

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