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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Duck failed to proceed

    The NRMA tapped my Iskra Solenoid and she went

    But on the next start she would crank but not run , and the red ignition light on the dash was out ?????

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    I will get a new starter motor and hope for the best

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    If the engine cranks over surely the starter motor is fine! Check for spark at the plugs. Look for current supply to the contact breaker. Check fuel pressure and carby jets. Check current supply to the ignition switch. ( the red light is out. That tells you something, does it not? ).
    We are having a similar issue with a recalcitrant D. Only in this case the red Dash lights are on but there is no current from the loom to the coil.
    Yesterday to get the owner home I had to jump wire the coil to the +ve terminal of the Battery and use the fly lead to the solenoid ( the Red connector near the Battery ) to crank the engine. One merely touches the connector to the battery +ve.
    Cheers Gerry

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Does it have a 123 or similar ignition?

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    JBN
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    Coils usually fail from overheating, so unless you have had this experience with your car, I wouldn't think that is the problem.

    If the fuel is a few months old, its useless. On a duck, drain the fuel by parting the front fuel line on the chassis in the passenger front wheel well. If you don't like the taste of petrol, blow long and hard into the fuel filler to get it started. Fill with new fuel. Put the old fuel in any other car with electronic engine management, it will compensate.

    A new set of NGK B6HS never goes astray. The gap is set at the factory. As long as the cardboard tube is covering the thread you needn't try to set them yourself. I never have checked the gap on NGKs. The gap is dependant upon the spark plug, not the engine in which it goes. I renew the plugs every 5000kms when I change the oil.

    If it cranks but won't start, my money would be on the fuel (unless its fresh).

    John

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    Coils usually fail from overheating, so unless you have had this experience with your car, I wouldn't think that is the problem.

    If the fuel is a few months old, its useless. On a duck, drain the fuel by parting the front fuel line on the chassis in the passenger front wheel well. If you don't like the taste of petrol, blow long and hard into the fuel filler to get it started. Fill with new fuel. Put the old fuel in any other car with electronic engine management, it will compensate.

    A new set of NGK B6HS never goes astray. The gap is set at the factory. As long as the cardboard tube is covering the thread you needn't try to set them yourself. I never have checked the gap on NGKs. The gap is dependant upon the spark plug, not the engine in which it goes. I renew the plugs every 5000kms when I change the oil.

    If it cranks but won't start, my money would be on the fuel (unless its fresh).

    John
    My mothers 2cv starts and runs on stale fuel without too many issues .... I wouldn't say it runs well though ... and will run on ... a lot.

    Do the coils go heat sensitive with age I wouldn't be surprised if the car works again if he lifts the bonnet and lets it cool down...... well work for a short time until it's hot again either way!

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    It could still be the starter motor.
    On my old 505 I went through a patch where it was very hard to start. It cranked over just fine, but wouldn't spark.
    Turns out the starter motor was shot and was drawing so much out of the battery there was nothing left to get a spark on the plugs.
    Regards
    Rob

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    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    My mothers 2cv starts and runs on stale fuel without too many issues .... I wouldn't say it runs well though ... and will run on ... a lot.

    Do the coils go heat sensitive with age I wouldn't be surprised if the car works again if he lifts the bonnet and lets it cool down...... well work for a short time until it's hot again either way!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Perhaps we buy our fuel in NSW staler than in Victoria. If I leave petrol (I use 98 RON) in one of the 2CVs for 3 months, I can flatten the battery on the starter motor before it fires. Easier to drain and stick it in the Xantia and put new fuel in the 2CV.

    In future, I will add Stabil on the last tankful and leave it as is. After a Stabil representative gave a presentation to the NSW CCC, this is the best option as it stops glazing in the carby and all other parts of the fuel system, plus the fuel lasts indefinately.

    The original 2CV coil is very prone to overheating in heavy stop/start traffic, more so in warm weather than in cold. I used to carry two spares in the boot. I could transfer them within a cycle of the traffic lights. I let the replacement just lie behind the original and switched the two leads. It wasn't going to fall off.

    Club Cassis in southern France, the recipients of all the 2CV stuff from Citroen when it ceased production, have within the last year, finally produced a resin core 2CV coil. Looks identical to the oil cooled original 2CV core but should be way more reliable.

    Once a coil has cooked, it never reverts to its youth.

    John

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Thank you greatly

    Have ordered , starter , and will look into the resin core coil , interesting

    1st class advice from the best of the best

    Will get back about it , its actually going now ,thinking about all that fuel and coils , yes will get on the case
    Last edited by Renburg; 22nd January 2015 at 06:55 PM.

  9. #9
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    John
    On the Cassis Mehari 2CV site some coils are 50 something worth

    and others a 30 something , is the expensive one the resin core one ?

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    The 1110000 is for all ignitions, so you'd think it's the uprated type. Note they sell coils for some of the electronic ignitions, too.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    The 1110000 is for all ignitions, so you'd think it's the uprated type. Note they sell coils for some of the electronic ignitions, too.
    Got the resin core coil from ECAS

    Yahoooo

  12. #12
    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renburg View Post
    Got the resin core coil from ECAS

    Yahoooo
    My mistake. It was ECAS that had the resin coil with the yellow stripe for the same prices as the Valeo (I had 3 Valeos - one on the engine, two in the boot as spares). They also have a Harley coil that is very powerful. That's the one I have on both my 2CVs now.

    I cycle my browsing between Club Cassis, ECAS and 2CViking in France.

    I don't deal with Club Cassis direct as they don't accept Mastercard online because I live in Australia (at least their old fashioned attitude is in keeping with the 2CV).

    I have difficulty in dealing with ECAS, even though I have bought most of the parts for Daffy Duck from them, because they have trouble with shipping options and it can be expensive.

    Mostly I buy from Viking and they have some good fixed price postage. I know both Peter and Lorraine and its nice to deal with friends. Where Viking excels is in getting either new or second hand bits to fix your problem and he has a quick turnaround. Plus he is a fully Citroen trained mechanic and an expert on the A series, so he knows what he is doing.

    Last year the two plastic bushes on the gearshift disintergrated, making smooth gearshifts impossible. The bushes cost pennies. How the replace them is the artform. Viking just cut the shaft on the engine side of the tube, replaces the bushes inside the tube and rewelds the shaft. Have a good look at at the shaft and tube and see if you can work out another way. The trick is to make a jig to fit the shaft before you cut it. You will find the right angle of the gear knob is in a different plane to the bend at the gearbox end. Your jig must ensure that this alignment can be replicated before you reweld the two bits. Note that a right hand drive gearshift and a left hand drive gearshift have different angles. Viking can turn a left hand drive gearshift into a right hand drive one when he renews the bushes, as he has jigs for both.

    John

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    Default

    Also look at Méhari Côte d'Azur, MCDA Méhari Côte d'Azur I have used them in the past and they had an english speaker onboard.
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  14. #14
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    Default Good Advise

    Thanks for the Viking tip John

    Those resin core coils are often bolted to engines , , so they can take the heat

    I will be able to drive in Saudia Arabia with glee now , or Camden , it got to 50C there in the great heatwave of 1896

  15. #15
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    Why not

    I got some aircooled 4 stroke motorcycle oil , SG grade for the duck ,

    seems Im changing about every 2000 KMS , Im a real oil head

    I like to support the oil companies , they put Presidents in power

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    JBN
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    Make sure you grease the kingpins every 1000 km. I usually change the oil every 5000 km, plus the oil filter, plus the spark plugs. I use Mobil 1 for the town 2CV and Castrol GTX for the bush car (its easy to obtain anywhere in the bush).

    John

  17. #17
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    Yo John , Just did the king pins yesterday
    I use the Aircooled motorcycle oil , SG grade as I think its got the zinc and the phosphorus , I was slack and did use the 20/50 cheap Repco oil ROSL whatever
    but changed around 2000 K, and I do use a big Z158 oil filter as I made up a special adaptor to fit the Duck
    Tempted with the Penrite that has 1200PPM Zinc next , just an oil head ,,,,seems

    Do you put castor oil in your middle suspension spring cylinder ?
    Last edited by Renburg; 25th January 2015 at 12:50 PM.

  18. #18
    JBN
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    I did use castor oil in previous years, but now just use canola oil. A lot cheaper. Just don't use mineral oil.

    One bloke I know, who completely refurbished his 2CV, made some holes (covered with rubber plugs) in the top of the spring pot. That makes sense as oil works well with gravity, and its easier than feeding a tube through the front and rear gaiters.

    The way I fluck a duck, I am glad that a new piston/ring/cylinder set is relatively cheap, so I tend to recycle motors at a fair rate.

    John

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renburg View Post
    The NRMA tapped my Iskra Solenoid and she went

    But on the next start she would crank but not run , and the red ignition light on the dash was out ?????


    I will get a new starter motor and hope for the best
    I understand that electrickery can be left and right handed. It might pay for you to ensure that the electrickery is rotating in the same direction as the starter motor, or there will be none left to power the coil. The direction of flow of the electrickery is also important when looking at the distributor. Check that the flow of amps is emanating in the same direction as the rotation of the rotor, or it will be attempting to reverse the goodness of your engine.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  20. #20
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    I believe that when left handed electrickery meets right handed electrickery it can result in some of the smoke in the wires escaping.
    FIVEDOOR likes this.

  21. #21
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    If Lucas electricity is involved, replacement smoke is available

    Lucas Replacement Smoke Kit
    Kim Luck, JohnW and FIVEDOOR like this.
    Peter
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  22. #22
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    WARNING ! Under no circumstances use replacement English Lucas smoke on your French electrics.
    The pungent Gauloises French smoke is incompatible & the resulting explosive reaction can result in
    entire system melt down.

    Richard
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  23. #23
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenut View Post
    WARNING ! Under no circumstances use replacement English Lucas smoke on your French electrics.
    The pungent Gauloises French smoke is incompatible & the resulting explosive reaction can result in
    entire system melt down.

    Richard
    I've seen a metric smoke converter advertised on ebay a couple of times, are they OK to put Lucas smoke through?
    JohnW likes this.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  24. #24
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I've seen a metric smoke converter advertised on ebay a couple of times, are they OK to put Lucas smoke through?
    I've never actually seen Ducellier smoke myself Kim. I've certainly never seen metric smoke or, for that matter, Ducellier kits on Ebay France.
    JohnW

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  25. #25
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    The Metric smoke converter is actually a misnomer as it is designed to convert either the French or English smoke to replace the copious amounts used in Italian electrics. Use of the wrong smoke in Italian cars can, through electrolysis, result in the car disappearing in a pile of red dust which is cunningly concealed from new in most early Italian cars.

    Richard

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