Citroen C5 ircon flap motor with a long splined shaft
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Thread: Citroen C5 ircon flap motor with a long splined shaft

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Icon6 Citroen C5 ircon flap motor with a long splined shaft

    Hey Guys, I'm a first-time user as in requesting help/advice. Have been very grateful for the goldmine of information which has addressed some of my minor niggles and been successfully addressed as a result. Would greatly appreciate if any one can tell me where I can source an "Aircon flap motor with a long splined shaft?"
    I am in need of one for my 2007 Citroen C5 Hatchback sedan (revamped series I model).
    On reading various blogs on the subject it would appear that my current problems stem from here, i.e., no cool air on the passenger side of the vehicle when Air Con is turned on. The car has been re-gassed and everything seems to be operative but for this glitch. When set on 'Auto' there's no increase in fan speed in the cabin, in fact it appears this action has a further negative rather than a positive effect. your thoughts/help will be greatly appreciated.

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    Last edited by Dilletante; 7th January 2015 at 07:13 PM.

  2. #2
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    Hi Dilletante,
    I am surprised no one else has replied yet ? The Dealers are the only supplier but probably O/S in England will be the cheapest supplier if you Google the part number.
    Look at this web site for a part number.
    French Car Forum ? View topic - C5 Aircon flap motor - long spline
    I would not worry about what happens on 'auto' setting as it sometimes takes some initial action based on some presettings until it settles in. If the flap motors are not working it then gets confused !
    Jaahn

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilletante View Post
    Hey Guys, I'm a first-time user as in requesting help/advice. Have been very grateful for the goldmine of information which has addressed some of my minor niggles and been successfully addressed as a result. Would greatly appreciate if any one can tell me where I can source an "Aircon flap motor with a long splined shaft?"
    I am in need of one for my 2007 Citroen C5 Hatchback sedan (revamped series I model).
    On reading various blogs on the subject it would appear that my current problems stem from here, i.e., no cool air on the passenger side of the vehicle when Air Con is turned on. The car has been re-gassed and everything seems to be operative but for this glitch. When set on 'Auto' there's no increase in fan speed in the cabin, in fact it appears this action has a further negative rather than a positive effect. your thoughts/help will be greatly appreciated.
    It's probably a broken heater flap.... dash out job to replace a shitty bit of poorly designed plastic.

    PEUGEOT 407 CITROEN C5 HEATER FLAP REPAIR KIT DUAL ZONE AIR CONDITIONING | eBay

    the 407 single A/C unit in the 407 here broke it's heater flap. I repaired it as desribed here. Fortunatly I didn't have to pull the dash.

    PEUGEOT 407 HEATER FIX - Home

    The cotton/epoxy repair will probably be stronger than the original shaft, so I woldn't be in a hurry to spend $$$ to replace a flawed part myself.

    If it's anything like the XM it'll be a 15hour+ task to remove the heater box and access the flaps ... And no mechanic will want too take the task on.

    seeya
    Shane L.
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    Citroen Workshop
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    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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    Hi Dillante,
    With due respect to DoubleChevron I would not be trying to replace the flap until you actually determine that it was the problem.
    Perhaps Pug drivers are too rough on the controls but most people with C5s seem to find the socket on the end of the flap shaft is the problem AFAIK. I am open to other information however.

    My suggestion is to pull the flap motor off and manipulate the socket with a square stick or the like. Its a bit easier to say than do lying on the floor half under the dash. However if you can move it back and foward till it stops with a postive action then the shaft would be OK. You can also see the socket is cracked and spread a bit. Be a bit gentle of course. The flap requires very little force to move normally.

    I have glued a short drive motor cog into the broken socket twice now and it worked.
    Jaahn

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    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Hi Dilletante,
    I fixed mine 3 weeks ago. Very simple job. Just undo all the screws that hold the glovebox in, take out the glovebox.. look inside towards the middle of the car, you will see the aircon unit . There are 2 little motors, you need to undo the 3 screws holding either motor, and remove the motor. The wire just unclips after you press and release it.
    On the servo motor assembly the output spline is hollow, so it's possible to trim a very small splint out of a small piece of wood, about 3mm thick, and about 13 mm long. It has to be cut to the right thickness to make it fit inside the servo output spline and into the shaft spindle, which is slightly thicker. Do both the lower and upper motors at the same time.

    NOTE... there is NO tension on this simple plastic flap, it weighs practically nothing, so it should not be broken. There should be no need ever to remove or replace it. It's just that the spindle on the motor wasn't fitted properly into the flap spindle, so you get minor wear, or the spindle end of the flap shaft can crack, making it possible for the flap to slip out of it's proper position on the spline. Fitting a small wooden splint that you make to fit does the trick.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by George 1/8th; 4th February 2015 at 11:01 AM. Reason: needed updating...
    Jinandfonic likes this.

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    This is weird... I tried to start a new thread, but I can't seem to find a 'compose' option anywhere...

    I know I haven't been here in ages, but...

    Anyway, our air-con (in our 2009 C4 Grand Picasso) has had the blowing hot air out of the passenger side vents for more than a year now, but somehow we've muddled through those days and then winter... Given the current streak of heatwaves in Sydney (and everywhere!) and with my wife now driving further distances than before, it's become a real problem.

    Bit of research online and I figured out that it was the issue with the flap being stuck in the heating position. The driver side vents blow cold air, so it's not a gassing issue. _Sometimes_ when the motors cycle, we will get the cold air back on the passenger side too. I assume that when the flap has been closed by the air-con somehow. There's no way to leave it at that setting though, since the damn thing seems to cycle through the vents on its own on starting the car up.

    Unfortunately, it is apparently a dash-out job to get to the flap / motor and enquiring with various mechanics didn't get me an encouraging response. I finally got a quote from someone to say it would be $1800/- labour and $1400/- for the part which has to be shipped from France.

    For a 10 year old car with 190k on the clock, that seems like a fair chunk of change, especially since we will probably sell it in a year or so (although without the air-con issue, it wouldn't have really occurred to me consider selling; we adore the thing)...

    Is there any way we can a) find out the part number of the flap / motor / heater box and get it directly from Europe?
    Any suggestions for getting to the heater box without having to pull out the dash would be great. I'm open to cutting up the underside to get to it, even if we have to mangle the dashboard or the little chiller box.

    I would _really_ like to fix this as it seems a stupid thing to junk / flick a really nice car in really good condition over a heater flap... what's wrong with the world and what's wrong with the french??!

    Hamx5ter

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    Fellow Frogger
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    I'm not entirely sure of the function, but the book times to get at driver and passenger air distribution motors are under an hour, including removal of lower panels/glovebox. This diagram may help you a little and two of the three motors shown would be left/right mixer motors:
    C4PicMixerMotor.JPG

    You'd certainly want to see if a longer peg on the motor is the solution before removing the dash / heater unit. Maybe, that won't work here as it does for the C5? None of the current Sydney dealers have handled Citroen for long enough to have sold a Picasso in 2009 or serviced one for very long, so they may or may not have experience with this specific problem.

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    The C5 flap motor is accessible, and looks like this: flap-motor-1.jpg

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    Fellow Frogger! CC1701's Avatar
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    have seen a motor shaft repair kit, with a spacer plate and an extended replacement shaft on ebay for some PSA cars.
    there may have been replacement flaps too, from memory.
    might be worth a look to see if they are available for your car.

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    Oh that's a great help! or Hope! I'll have a look at it this weekend.

    It's a shame there is no consistency of support for the brand. It's been a great ownership experience, but especially after McCarroll got out of Citroen and their good mechanics left, I noticed the proper drop in the quality of their work (and some quite dodgy advice on parts needing replacement). My aftermarket support experience is patchy at best, and of course, it's the weird electronics and little niggly things that let the car down rather than the big ticket items.

    Will update my travels...

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    Thanks CC1701... I'll have a look and see if access is indeed possible and then go looking for the replacement part. If the problem is the mixer flap / motor shaft, the replacement part is not too expensive so ebay / OEM would be fine (certainly not $1400/-). The thing I have to check first is if the motor is accessible on the C4, as no mechanic is willing to touch it without taking out the dash for big dolla

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    Default Citroen C5 ircon flap motor with a long splined shaft

    Quote Originally Posted by hamx5ter View Post
    Thanks CC1701... I'll have a look and see if access is indeed possible and then go looking for the replacement part. If the problem is the mixer flap / motor shaft, the replacement part is not too expensive so ebay / OEM would be fine (certainly not $1400/-). The thing I have to check first is if the motor is accessible on the C4, as no mechanic is willing to touch it without taking out the dash for big dolla
    Youíll be glad to note PSA HVACs are now from Japan - Denso.....like their autos - Aisin.
    Two of the biggest pia shouldnít be any worse than a Camry.
    Best of luck .....we adore our (2015) C4P. One of the wonders of the auto world.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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    Fellow Frogger! CC1701's Avatar
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    hi hamx5ter,
    if its anything like the 307 or c5 access is either by removing the glove box or removing the cover under the steering wheel, depending on which side the motor is on your model.
    i seem to remember the motor kit to be around $30-40 mark for the spacer and shaft extension. removing the glovebox, or panel, then motors is very straight forward. The kit looked simple to fit too.
    If the flap shaft itself is broken inside the heater case then its a much bigger job. dash out saddly.
    seems to be common for them just to strip the gear on the shaft. so I hope that is the case for you making it a quick, easy and cheap fix.

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Try Continental motors 97591977, they have been into Citroens literally for generations, like many other established people they lost the franchise when "new management" took over. However their knowledge & competence is at a very high level, I have found them very good. Interestingly now they are no longer tied to the system they can source parts from a wider range of sources & sometimes can save customers money as a result. No contact with them other than as a satisfied customer.

    agd123

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    A tech I know suggested the A/C system may need to be re-initialised using the diagnostic tool. Old range Picasso apparently isn't known for regularly snapping flap shafts or for the C5 short drive peg problem. The cog kit for the C4 hatch/coupe is a different issue.

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    Thanks for all the replies! The emotions! Hope! Despair! Passion! aaahhh... ze franche... oui?!

    My plans to try and attack this got sidetracked on account of the heat + also because my little tractor is now stranded at DFO where my wife had taken it yesterday. Wouldn't start. Tried to jump, no luck - possibly starter motor. Will get it towed tomorrow (DFO security were very nice and ok to leave it a day or so in the car park), fix the starter motor during the week.

    Will print out this whole thread and diagrams that David S had put up and have a look the following weekend.

  17. #17
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    Before you pay for a tow, check the starter fuse in the engine slave/relay unit. It is most likely fuse 8 and a 20A yellow. If it's blown, fit a 25A fuse instead. If that's failed, a jump start will not help.

    Are the battery terminals clipped on properly and does it have a decent charge?

    Try operating the brake pedal a few times. A bad brake switch can prevent starting. There was a fix to replace the switch and add in an extra extension harness. It should be fairly easy for you to see if someone has been there before and added a harness in service. If it's the original brake switch (unlikely) it may have let you down.

    Is it an EGS and showing 'A1' on the screen? Possible problem with the selector switch behind the steering wheel.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Regarding the C5 aircon flaps... the long shaft is the fix. I found that over time the wood splints would break down. If you can't get the long version you can join two short ones end to end if you make up a metal splint to push into them. It has to be a firm fit with no movement or slack. (btw.. you can remove the short shaft from the stepping motor and just clip in the long one, they just clip in and out).
    Also, in spite of what Shane said, it is possible to change the entire flap without removing the dash. It's all pretty easily accessed once you remove the glovebox. The end of the aircon unit can be cut away, the flap replaced, and the unit can be patched back up. I haven't had to go that far luckily. If I eventually do I'll photograph the procedure and post it here.

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    Thanks David.

    I should've read your reply before I headed out to see if I could get it started again.

    I'm no mechanic, so I took jumper leads (no luck), checked the fuses on top of the battery; they were fine. I assumed they were the normal fusebox. I had a look at the big box with all the wires (right next to the battery in the C4GP), but it was like a ton of wires just randomly stuffed in there, and I somehow thought it was shoddy French tech..


    Called the NRMA (after the obligatory 48 hour wait) and the patrolman asked for the handbook, opened up the big box, pulled the fuse for the starter - broken, replaced it with another one, and brmmmm (or rattle rattle). I feels stupid!

  20. #20
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    I took the car to my mechanic in Hornsby as it was up for service anyway, told him about the heater flap motor and that it was likely accessible from the near the glovebox. I offered to print up the various dismantling instructions and bring it to him, but when I went there, he already had it open. He found it quite easy to access,
    no dash-out required.

    He showed me the motor and the mechanism to close the flap(s). It flips open and shut quite well.
    The shafts itself don't seem to be busted, so perhaps the motor (or the gears inside) is stuffed; well, at least very temperamental, as it has sometimes worked.

    The spare C5 motor he had for the same situation had a longer shaft, but was quite different and with different mounting holes.

    The only thing left to do is to source the replacement motor, hopefully with the longer shaft.

    Pretty sure this is the one that's in my car. Tried to upload pix of it, but the phone won't seem to sync.

    Trying to find the same thing with the longer shaft.

    Citroen C4 Heater Actuator Motor s-l1600.jpg

  21. #21
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    No luck finding the part locally, as no one seems to recognize the Denso part number (6447XA). They either insist that it's a Citroen specific part, even though I mention that it seems to be available for many other brands, or say they cannot search for a part without the Citroen part #....


    Any chance someone has the book that lists part numbers and can help me with this, so I can speak to someone ... meanwhile, I'm just about to call Continental and McCarroll and see if they can do anything

    The alternative is that I just buy it from ebay at about A$90/- posted from UK, but that would mean a 2-3 week wait... and to do the same thing twice.

    I find it so bizarre that there is more expertise in our online forums and owner experiences than all these supposed experts... I mean, there is NO way this could've got this far without your help, and to think it is such a trivial thing to fix

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger
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    6447XA is the Citroen part number and there are three of them if you look at the parts diagram further up the page.
    If you suspect the left one is faulty, swap the left and right motors and see what happens. They are the same part.

    In the C5, it was almost always the short drive peg, although most would have been replaced by now. So, it would be surprising if the motor itself is at fault in the Picasso. For the Picasso, the tech's advice was to initialise all components via the DiagBox.

    Also, change that 20A fuse to a 25A fuse. The same issue applies to other models of the period.

  23. #23
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    Thanks David, I spent the morning ringing around to everyone and didn't have much luck as no one was willing to match up the Denso part number I stated with the corresponding Citroen part.

    In the end, I finally managed to a quote from a Citroen parts dealer who confirmed that the part number was indeed 6447XA (same as the Denso part!). However, the quoted price was $629/- and ETA was 3-4 weeks as it had to be shipped from France. Ditto for Colliers; price $689/- and wait time.

    I had this funny feeling they were just going to click the ebay link and order it in and sell it to me for approx. 10x! :lol:

    Anyway, I've ordered the Denso part from the ebay.co.uk link and hopefully it will also be fine when it turns up.

    In the meanwhile, we'll just put the flap manually to air-con for now, and fit the motor in when it turns up. Noted about the Lexia / DiagBox reset. Will see if the mechanic has one, otherwise I guess ebay...

    Thanks for all your help! and I'll update this thread when we get the motor for future reference.

    Deen

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    Hi hamx5ter
    With these Citroens and Peugeots the VIN is the definitive source for spare part numbers. You have plugged into a C5 thread so that has confused the discussion. Different car. If you gave us the VIN we could tell you the exact part number from the official Citroen site just like the dealers do. You cannot ask for a denso part on the Citroen system but as was pointed out the number was a genuine Citroen part number. That part may have been supplied by several suppliers.
    If the dealers here do not have one listed then it is probably not a common fault. You may as well order one from England as it will be as quick as the dealers ordering one from France. You can actually order from Citroen direct but it would be difficult for you.
    Jaahn
    I would suggest the moderators cut the C4 discussion off from the C5 discussion and make a new thread out of it for future search use.

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