Xantia electrics dead - new year blues...
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Xantia electrics dead - new year blues...

    Hi Folks

    This is a bit of a cross-post with frenchcarforum - so apologies for that, but I'm in a bit of a tight spot and thought it might be a good idea to tap the wisdom of both hemispheres.

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    Basically, disconnected the battery to do a bit of work - change the sparks etc. You're supposed to so for some reason this time I did what I was supposed to do. But, I seem to have managed to put the ignition into on while the batter was disconnected - god knows hows.

    I re-connected - there were a few clicks. After about a minute I went to start the machine, that's when I discovered the ignition in the on position. And, no ignition lights, no nothing. It seems completely dead. I've re-disconneced the battery for 15 minutes and then gone throught the re-connection prodedure - this time with the ignition key removed and a good distance from the ignition barrel! But, to no effect. Still dead as a dodo.

    I have a bad feeling. Please can someone tell me there's a blown fuse somewhere that is easy to replace... Or alternatively tell me I've certainly fried the engine ecu and I might as well throw away the car now...

    Any pointers, suggestions, or just where to start would be much appreciated.

    Keep well all.
    Morgan.

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Hi Morgan, don't panic. It will be something really simple. Carefully check everything with the battery negative disconnected. Then test everything with the battery connected. You might have damaged the main fuse. Get a local Xantia driver or auto electrician to check it for you. Good luck...cheers...

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Ouch. I can't add to George 1/8th's advice but am just replying to certainly wish you well with the issue. I imagine we'll be very interested to hear the solution when you've found it.

    Did the battery terminal spark at all when you were putting it back on?
    JohnW

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    JBN
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    Don't get too despondent. I found 2014 to be a bad year for Xantia electrics. This year has been no better, but strangers keep saying Happy New Year to me, so my spirit is bouyed that things may get better.

    The only problem this year (on day 2 of the new year) is that the engine management light is on. It did this last year and I replaced all the components for the fuel injection system. Obviously, the 12 month warranty period is over.

    John
    Last edited by JBN; 24th January 2015 at 11:51 PM.

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    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hi Morgan,

    First check to see if the headlamps are working. If yes, this would suggest that the problem is away from the battery, such as fuses or ignition switch, etc..
    If no, then look very closely at the battery terminals themselves. Clean the battery posts & internal surfaces of the connections, & check the small wire connections attached or embedded in the positive terminal. If you disconnected the positive terminal initially, it is possible that one of the small leads has fractured.
    Follow the negative [ earth ] terminal & check it is attached beneath the battery with all the other negative connections.
    If you had the battery out initially, check that the leads are connected the right way around.
    There are 2 fuse panels, one near the battery, the other under the right side of the dash near your right knee. I doubt that these will stop all functions, but worth checking, jiggling them around, & their connects to see if one of the leads is open circuit.
    Next would be to try the plug that connects to the ignition switch to see if the connection is poor. The switches do give trouble on the series ones, but usually there are early warnings of failure, such as the heater fan not working intermittently. A relay should be fitted in the heater fan & heated rear window circuits to take the load off the switch & prevent the contacts burning.

    I hope some these suggestions prove helpful.

    Richard
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    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Now this is very strange indeed. I sold my Xantia last week, to my sister. She loves the car. This morning I was writing in this thread going over what the problem might be with Morgan's Xantia, when she phones me saying the Xantia will not start.
    Interesting, could be the very things just thought and written about right here, so I told her not to panic, stay put, I'll load up some tools and parts and come right over..( Sunday Morning)...
    Ok, so I get there... check a few things... it's a FLAT battery. What an incredible battery it has been too, it was about 4 years old I think when I bought the car, and it's been faultless for the last 6 years...so it's Possibly a 10 year old battery. So, she hasn't scrapped the old Laser yet, so we do a battery swap. All good again.
    That's an amazing innings for a car battery, it's a Calcium battery... no lead or sulphuric acid.
    She's right now, hopefully for a Few years to come.
    So Morgan, might be time to test your battery....
    Good luck... cheers...
    Last edited by George 1/8th; 4th January 2015 at 03:41 PM. Reason: typo correction

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Xantias really got things right. Our first battery lasted about 8 years.

    I think some people might be saying unkind things within the cars' hearing. They do react sensitively.
    JohnW

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    JBN
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    I propose that 4 January be called Dead Xantia Day.

    John

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    I propose that 4 January be called Dead Xantia Day.

    John
    You'll be setting up a "Dead Xantias Society" next...
    JohnW

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    JBN
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    This disease is spreading faster than Ebola. My engine management light is on. My keypad doesn't have any lights. Used to have a red light when engine off, a green when engine on. The keypad was disabled by the previous owner. I hope this disease has a short gestation.

    John

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    I hope this disease has a short gestation.
    It's probably as long as the "plentiful" supply of Sydney water.

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    Well folks - I'm not sure why it is that it's not possible to bash yourself over the head with the bleeding obvious - but, it's not!

    Instead, I had to rely on Peter N over at FCF for that pleasure - he bashed me over the head with the 'have you checked the battery isn't flat' piece of wisdom. All the clues were there - click, click; everything completely dead; but, the real give away - ignition key in the 'on' position... So, I guess I ran the battery down before disconecting it...

    Anyway - it is a Happy New Year! My motor car is not a pile of scrap, and the Xantia keeps on keeping on going.
    Thanks all for listening to my New Year's tale of woe.
    Morgan.

  13. #13
    Tadpole
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    :
    Could have read George's post too... Thanks George.
    M

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    Tadpole
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    BTW George
    Completely OT
    Interested in comments on your HID set up - just posted over on that thread:
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/cit...ml#post1315501
    Thanks.
    M.

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    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hey Morgan ! How come the battery went flat while it was disconnected ? Is the battery stuffed ? What is it you're not telling us ?

    Richard

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George 1/8th View Post
    Now this is very strange indeed. I sold my Xantia last week, to my sister. She loves the car. This morning I was writing in this thread going over what the problem might be with Morgan's Xantia, when she phones me saying the Xantia will not start.
    Interesting, could be the very things just thought and written about right here, so I told her not to panic, stay put, I'll load up some tools and parts and come right over..( Sunday Morning)...
    Ok, so I get there... check a few things... it's a FLAT battery. What an incredible battery it has been too, it was about 4 years old I think when I bought the car, and it's been faultless for the last 6 years...so it's Possibly a 10 year old battery. So, she hasn't scrapped the old Laser yet, so we do a battery swap. All good again.
    That's an amazing innings for a car battery, it's a Calcium battery... no lead or sulphuric acid.
    She's right now, hopefully for a Few years to come.
    So Morgan, might be time to test your battery....
    Good luck... cheers...
    I've put Delkor ceramic plate bateries in all my cars. Congratulations, this is the first one I'm aware of that's failed. The one in my previous CX ended up in my brothers boat and still worked at about 12-5years of age when he sold the boat with it still in. The 10year old CX turbos delkor has been moved to the ID19 now. It's capacity isn't high enough any longer as the alarm drains it flat within a week in the CX.... It works fine in the ID19 though).

    I wonder if the XM still has it's Delkor in it ....

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    I've put Delkor ceramic plate bateries in all my cars. Congratulations, this is the first one I'm aware of that's failed. The one in my previous CX ended up in my brothers boat and still worked at about 12-5years of age when he sold the boat with it still in. The 10year old CX turbos delkor has been moved to the ID19 now. It's capacity isn't high enough any longer as the alarm drains it flat within a week in the CX.... It works fine in the ID19 though).

    I wonder if the XM still has it's Delkor in it ....

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Hi Shane, I think 10 years is pretty amazing. Anyway, I'm also very happy that my sister now enjoys the Xantia, and the car is still in the family. And it still rides like a CX too. Cheers...

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan View Post
    BTW George
    Completely OT
    Interested in comments on your HID set up - just posted over on that thread:
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/cit...ml#post1315501
    Thanks.
    M.
    Hi Morgan, I tried out a pretty cheap HID conversion set up and it was really bright, actually it was too bright. I didn't want to go blinding other drivers, and I got annoyed at how often only one would turn on properly, so I changed it all back to the standard 55watt globes. Better I think. The glass pattern wasn't a problem. If I were you I'd consider using them but only as the low beam headlight, and only get the pure white 35watt ones. It will still get annoying when occasionally only one will strike up. It just seems to be characteristic of these lights. Cheers...

  19. #19
    JBN
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    Default Lazarus has risen

    I have been kissed on the arse by the good luck fairy.

    Fixed most of the electrical problems by finally identifying that fuse F8 was a dud.

    Today I visited Jason regarding the HP pump leak. He diagnosed it as the input hose being slightly too large and not maintaining an oil proof seal. I replaced that hose last year with a new one. Unfortunately, unknown to me, the plastic tube on the LHM contained has a slightly different diameter to the input metal tube on the pump. Only citroen could come up with such a bastard idea! Naturally, I chose a hose size using the LHM tank tube.

    Anyhow, Jason being accosted daily by Citroen brilliance, got two different tubes, each correct for their end of the operation, and joined them with a suitable plastic joiner, routing the tube directly from the LHM container to the pump. I will extract the old hose from the bowels beneath the LHM tank and the engine fuse box some day.

    Jason also fixed the power to the blower motor. The wire connections (which he said were non standard) were loose under the fuse panel. One was a red wire, the other a green wire. Naturally, the green wire was the power one. Since I just replaced the brushes (courtesy from Addo) in the blower motor, I now have the system working. Had the aircon regassed this afternoon, so no we have aircon for the first time in 3 or 4 years. I predict this warm weather will disappear over the next few weeks as the planet goes into a cooling cycle. The auto electrician next door asked me to pay cash for the regas as he treats Citroens and their owners with the greatest mistrust (I think he thought I may use a stolen credit card if given the chance). He did agree that Citroen and electrics are uneasy bedfellows.

    In the next week or so I will replace the rear hydractive sphere and anti-sink sphere as well as the plastic 3 way return line connectors at the rear. I think either my rear hydractive sphere is very low or there is a problem with the rear solenoid. I have noticed that driving the car enthusiastically, the rear breaks away, particularly on left handers. Not realy a problem in that it tightens the turn and a jab of power on a front wheel drive pulls it out of strife. I haven't noticed the humming of the solenoid, so maybe I will have to replace the transistors in the suspension CPU. They are very cheap from Jaycar and I have done them before.

    Maybe 2015 will be a good year for the Xantia, which means a happy wife which in turn extends my life.

    John
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    I have been kissed on the arse by the good luck fairy.

    Fixed most of the electrical problems by finally identifying that fuse F8 was a dud................. Had the aircon regassed this afternoon, so no we have aircon for the first time in 3 or 4 years. I predict this warm weather will disappear over the next few weeks as the planet goes into a cooling cycle. The auto electrician next door asked me to pay cash for the regas as he treats Citroens and their owners with the greatest mistrust (I think he thought I may use a stolen credit card if given the chance). He did agree that Citroen and electrics are uneasy bedfellows.

    Maybe 2015 will be a good year for the Xantia, which means a happy wife which in turn extends my life.

    John
    Funny coincidence. Since I bought a spare speedo for our Xantia (thanks French Connection) and worked out which bits to resolder, the speedometer problem has disappeared. Just needed the threat of dismantling it seems....

    Good outcomes John. AC is very good for harmony.
    JohnW

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  21. #21
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Sometimes just the threat is enough...

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    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by George 1/8th View Post
    Sometimes just the threat is enough...
    It depends who is threatening whom.

    I paid $100 to regas the aircon at 4pm yesterday. Its all gone. No more cold air, but at least the blower works.

    That at least makes it handy for rainy/wintry days when you need to blow some hot air around. Shame the aircon is stuffed because it quickly demists the car.

    Back to all windows open and drive everywhere at speed, except on double demerit point weekends.

    After 2 CXs, 2 BXs and now this Xantia, aircon has always been one of those optional options.

    John

  23. #23
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Did your man put dye in it?

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    Did your man put dye in it?
    My thought exactly. Mine did that two weeks ago. You can get a pressure pack mix with gas, dye and sealant I gather. Usual story with AC, keep using it to keep the seals lubricated and shafts polished I presume.

    Bad luck re the tantalising coolness John....
    JohnW

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  25. #25
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    It depends who is threatening whom.

    I paid $100 to regas the aircon at 4pm yesterday. Its all gone. No more cold air, but at least the blower works.

    That at least makes it handy for rainy/wintry days when you need to blow some hot air around. Shame the aircon is stuffed because it quickly demists the car.

    Back to all windows open and drive everywhere at speed, except on double demerit point weekends.

    After 2 CXs, 2 BXs and now this Xantia, aircon has always been one of those optional options.

    John
    John, I paid an autoelec bloke about $160.00 TO REGASS MY AIRCON about 6yrs ago and it's still working perfectly on my now Ex Xantia. He connected it up, vaccuum tested the aircon system and found no leaks, then re-gassed it with the right stuff, with some dye too. This helps locate any leaks in the system if there are any subsequent problems. It sounds like you have a major leak in your system. The most likely cause would be a stone hole in the condensor. You will have to search for the leak with a UV lamp which shows up the flourescent dye. Good luck...

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