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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    Default Self-levelling headlights

    About my 1972 DS 21...

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    I've got a simple question that I'd like to ask
    If it is not too hard or burdensome a task
    Self-levelling headlights, bit of a bother aren't they?
    Especially when they don't seem to see it your way


    The ones I have uncovered in my beautiful car
    Most of the bits are hanging from the torsion bar
    Now the only sort of drawing that I could find
    Is drawn just badly enough to fuzzy up your mind


    So if someone's got some sort of a schematic for me
    I'll gladly put my head down to it and try to see
    Which bit connects to what and where the springs can pull
    So I can finally restore them to the full.



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  2. #2
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    I understand your plight
    when driving a DS at night
    you make a turn left
    but your lights turn to the right

    Of course something is also awry
    when those headlights point to the sky
    staring down at your engine bay
    can be enough to make you sigh

    Living in Spain are you not español
    Now Don B. Cilly look in the manual

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/o9vl2s0335...%20up.pdf?dl=0

    Try my dropbox link, it may take a while for the PDF to become available.

    If we have no success
    I'll send the file to your email address

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  3. #3
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    . . .a few more images - these from the parts manual 648









    . . .and these posted by DSuper, hard to read but describe setting up and aiming the lights





    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    It would appear that the spring is sprung, or that the spring is the thing.....Looks like the whole set-up was invented by a disgruntled watchmaker......
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Contrast upped--- Self-levelling headlights-headlight-1.jpg

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    Assuming all the hardware is there there will be two problems. One being free moving piano wire cables ( ie single filament wires ) from the middle of the rear anti roll bar and the centre of the front roll bar. Chances are these are either full of crud or rusted through.
    The damper up under the mudguard edge is usually cactus and can be responsible for some excessive up and down jumping of the beams. If running smoothly they will adjust for acceleration and braking changes in the car's fore/aft attitude. While looking a bit "cobbled up" on initial inspection they work well actually being a balancing act ( sprung to keep things under constant tension ) between the front and rear roll bar rotation....and once complete are eminently adjustable to the individual's preference...just twiddle a nylon hand ( finger ) screw. The steering inner lights offer more bang for the buck though and are also adjustable via nylon finger screws to centre and achieve the left/right positioning of the beams. Persevere and prepare to be astounded by the effectiveness !!

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    Olé.
    Thanks a lot everyone.

    If I can't put it back together with this information, I guess I can't put it back together at all.

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don B. Cilly View Post
    Olé.
    Thanks a lot everyone.

    If I can't put it back together with this information, I guess I can't put it back together at all.
    Once you have all the components laid out it will make more sense, all very logical

    Fritzlehund has mentioned the headlight damper, an important piece in the puzzle and the only hydraulic component not linked into the system - ingenious

    We have covered rebuilding here >> DS Headlight Damper <<

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    That first diagram shows how the high beams can be connected to the steering so they turn with the steering.
    Self leveling is way simpler, they both just rock together , back and forwards with the up and down movement, so they always point at the horizon regardless of how high or low the rear of the car goes.

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    Well, the directional high beams I understand quite well, as I had to install them from a used "kit" I got from France on the ID 19, which didn't have them - and I couldn't have a DS without them. I grew up on these cars, to me it would have been like smoking a Cuban cigar with a plastic holder.

    Now I got a pro(p)per DS 21, and Pallas* to boot, and the high beams look OK, but the main headlights are all hanging in there, including the springs and stuff.
    It's even got duct tape in places...
    The seller told me, and I knocked the price, so it's OK.

    With the info you gave me, I'm quite confident I can work them out.
    I'm not a good mechanic, but I'm persistent.

    Just one thing, how do I check if the piano wire from the rear suspension actually does its intended job?

    * If you check the Athena entry on Wikipedia, the last edit all the way down (before the Genealogy) is mine, made it ages ago

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    Member SmoothFlow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don B. Cilly View Post
    About my 1972 DS 21...

    I've got a simple question that I'd like to ask
    If it is not too hard or burdensome a task
    Self-levelling headlights, bit of a bother aren't they?
    Especially when they don't seem to see it your way


    The ones I have uncovered in my beautiful car
    Most of the bits are hanging from the torsion bar
    Now the only sort of drawing that I could find
    Is drawn just badly enough to fuzzy up your mind


    So if someone's got some sort of a schematic for me
    I'll gladly put my head down to it and try to see
    Which bit connects to what and where the springs can pull
    So I can finally restore them to the full.






    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood
    I understand your plight
    when driving a DS at night
    you make a turn left
    but your lights turn to the right

    Of course something is also awry
    when those headlights point to the sky
    staring down at your engine bay
    can be enough to make you sigh

    Living in Spain are you not español
    Now Don B. Cilly look in the manual

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/o9vl2s0335...%20up.pdf?dl=0

    Try my dropbox link, it may take a while for the PDF to become available.

    If we have no success
    I'll send the file to your email address

    Cheers
    Chris
    I have much enjoyed your Citroënesk poetry.

    Citroën Regards
    Brian
    1970 D Super. (Little Miss Petite).

    To quote Maxwell Smart........"And Loving It!"

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    The rap is actually a take on this:
    (brilliant scene in a brilliant film)

    http://vid841.photobucket.com/albums...psggjzhhhb.mp4

  13. #13
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don B. Cilly View Post

    Just one thing, how do I check if the piano wire from the rear suspension actually does its intended job?

    * If you check the Athena entry on Wikipedia, the last edit all the way down (before the Genealogy) is mine, made it ages ago

    I've yet to renew the wire connections on my project, (parts ordered via Marco, just waiting for freight costs).
    My plan is to bring the car up to ride height, and whilst I view the wires under the bonnet get a helper to bounce the rear end. I should see movement of the wires in relation to the tubes. . .

    With regard to the tubes, again as Fritzlehund has mentioned, the rear tube is easily crushed, they can and do rust and with neglect can become blocked - check!

    Citroen did address the possibility of blockage at the engine bay end by installing 2 cone shaped weights with holes through the centre, slid onto the cable and using gravity they slide down to close off the opening of the tube yet still allow the free movement of the cable.

    The cable with fittings can be bought new, the tubes can be replaced using 4.5mm high pressure line (Coppra Nickel).

    With reference to your Wiki edit, Citroen also named one of the CX variants Athena.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Hi Don, it's over 30 years ago that I had a DS21, but I don't think there was any physical connection to the rear suspension. I'm pretty sure the headlight leveling was connected to the front suspension arms via some kind of adjustable clamp/rod set up. It was very simple. It might have been connected to the anti sway bar like the height control sensor. Cheers...and good luck. Maybe some other frogger who has a DS could take some photos for you and post them.

  15. #15
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George 1/8th View Post
    Hi Don, it's over 30 years ago that I had a DS21, but I don't think there was any physical connection to the rear suspension. I'm pretty sure the headlight leveling was connected to the front suspension arms via some kind of adjustable clamp/rod set up. It was very simple. It might have been connected to the anti sway bar like the height control sensor. Cheers...and good luck. Maybe some other frogger who has a DS could take some photos for you and post them.
    George
    If you look at the fist image Don.B.Cilly posted you can see the front and rear tubing which carries the cables to facilitate the headlight leveling.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    The above diagrams do not show the cables and the attachment at both the front and rear anti roll bar> In order for the self levelling system to work correctly these cable must be sound and well connected. They must also be free in their sheathes. The cables actuate the metal bar that runs across the car in front of the radiator duct. The spring and damper system is to provide positive and smooth restraint of the levelling action!
    Firstly check the condition of the cables and their connections to the roll bars! Then begin to worry about the rest of the system. BTW the levelling function Is independent of the directional light function!
    Cheers Gerry

  17. #17
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    The above diagrams do not show the cables and the attachment at both the front and rear anti roll bar> In order for the self levelling system to work correctly these cable must be sound and well connected. They must also be free in their sheathes. The cables actuate the metal bar that runs across the car in front of the radiator duct. The spring and damper system is to provide positive and smooth restraint of the levelling action!
    Firstly check the condition of the cables and their connections to the roll bars! Then begin to worry about the rest of the system. BTW the levelling function Is independent of the directional light function!
    Those connections are clearly shown in the PDF in the link I provided in my initial reply. A simple but very effective set-up that is yet to be bettered by current technologies IMO.

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Those connections are clearly shown in the PDF in the link I provided in my initial reply. A simple but very effective set-up that is yet to be bettered by current technologies IMO.

    Cheers
    Chris
    Sorry Chris. I am talking about the other end of the wire cables. The under bonnet ends are shown very clearly in the PDF, there is the clamp bolt on the wire and the eye hook plate to attach to the 'W' shaped rod that hooks to the adjustable rod that hooks onto the rotating bar that controls the levelling of the lights by yet another pair of rods. All this is clear. BUT at the other end of the wire cables , a short one that runs to the front roll bar and a long one that runs to the rear roll bar the wire is formed into a hooked loop. The end at the rear of the car fails due to corrosion where moisture can get into the steel sheath that the wire runs in. Piano wire can be purchased in rolls that is suitable for replacing this long wire the end hook can be made by sliding a length of steel or brass tube over the wire end and bending into the necessary shape. The front wire is usually bathed in greasy gunk and corrosion is not so much a problem. Here dirt and grease build up causes the wire to stick in the outer sheath!
    Cheers Gerry

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    So I just ask the big guy next door to bump the rear end up and down while I check the cable at the front.
    So easy it's a crime (not to have thought about it)

  20. #20
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    BUT at the other end of the wire cables , a short one that runs to the front roll bar and a long one that runs to the rear roll bar the wire is formed into a hooked loop.
    It's all there Gerry, but as diagrams. . .

    Silly me, I've found the same info is available in English in 814-1 /Headlamps/ Leveling > Sept 67



    Quote Originally Posted by Don B. Cilly View Post
    So I just ask the big guy next door to bump the rear end up and down while I check the cable at the front.
    So easy it's a crime (not to have thought about it)
    That was my plan, maybe wrap some tape or mark a position on the cables so that you see the extent of movement or lack thereof

    Cheers
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Self-levelling headlights-rear-cable-connections.jpg  
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  21. #21
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    Gee you guys have really come up trumps on this post !

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    It's all there Gerry, but as diagrams. . .

    Silly me, I've found the same info is available in English in 814-1 /Headlamps/ Leveling > Sept 67





    That was my plan, maybe wrap some tape or mark a position on the cables so that you see the extent of movement or lack thereof

    Cheers
    Chris
    Well done Chris, That is much more like it. Those diagrams were not included in the first PDF post.
    Cheers Gerry

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    I stand corrected, They are definitely in the drop box file! Apologies Chris!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    I stand corrected, They are definitely in the drop box file! Apologies Chris!
    All the better in English though Gerry, and your post prompted me to check 814-1 where the scans are much improved over the French version.

    For those that don't have hard copies and haven't found the digital manuals they can be found here
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tv0b25gpmd5ux8e/e-HYMQrA3e

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    ...the digital manuals they are can be found here
    All your manual are now belong to us ;·)
    (sorry, couldn't resist it - just groogle it if you don't know what it is)

    A real treasure trove.
    Cheers.

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