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Thread: XM autobox

  1. #1
    WRB
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    Default XM autobox

    Yesterday, as I was backing out of my driveway, the box made a very loud bang and, I lost reverse until I had changed out and changed back. I was on my way to visit Roger and thought that maybe I shouldn't. I then remembered that I get free towing from RACV so, that would be the worst case scenario. The car performed beautifully on the journey there and back again however., when starting out from a dead stop, I am getting the sound of a crunching bearing. Once up to speed, this disappears.

    I have done hours of research and now believe that part of the top edge of the reverse cage has broken away and is being mulched by the diff. Rebuild kits and manuals are available on-line but these do not include the cages, just the plates and clutch sets.

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    Has anyone had a go at doing one of these themselves? A changeover is $4800 (having watched re-build videos, I imagine these guys are laughing all the way to the bank...).
    Does anyone have a second hand one that is okay? I really do not want to decommission such a good car.

    cheers

    Warren

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Warren, is it a ZF? If so, which one?

    Zaphod the Xantia has a good ZF 4HP14 in him up at French Connection's holding yard. Maybe speak to Dave after they finish their break?

    Cheers, Pottsy
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    WRB
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    I am not quite sure - it is a 2000 model - I am going to have a look at the box tommorrow. If it is as you say, I will give him a call

    thanks for letting me know

    cheers

  4. #4
    WRB
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    No, it is a 4 HP 18...

  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    if it's a later 24valver ... it'll be a 4hp20 won't it
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    Look what I found....

    4HP18Q: ZF Parts Eriksson Industries

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    WRB
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    I am very confused Shane - I took it to Auto Paris a few months ago to have the gearbox fluid changed and was told that they fill them through the dipstick hole. I have since searched all around the thing with a flashlight and have not been able to find the dio stick. And, as far as I know HP 20s don't have dipsticks as they are "sealed for life".....

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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  9. #9
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    It's a 4HP20, which is totally different to a 4HP14/18. It will not use Dexron fluid and the gear selection in the valve block is via solenoids rather than a purely hydraulic system.
    The 4HP18 has a dipstick and a 4HP20 fitted to Xantia and XM should too, but not a C5.
    There will be detail differences between the 4HP20 used in different models, so don't simply assume one 4HP20 is the same as another. The C&P ratio is likely to be a major difference, so you need to check that.
    I think if the differential was being damaged, you might have heard more noise and you would certainly find a lot of debris in the oil if something mechanical is severely wrong. The noise could even be the pump cavitating if the pickup is being blocked, in which case you would probably hear it at the bellhousing and would have a significant fault. Are you certain the noise is actually the gearbox and not something else? Is anything rubbing on a driveshaft, brakes or tyres where you have been working? The A/C compressor is a variable capacity unit and can develop a good rattle/knock at low speed.
    Last edited by David S; 30th December 2014 at 01:12 AM.

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    WRB
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    Thanks Shane and David - I will go over the entire undercarrage tomorrow. Sometimes id sounds like loose front suspension parts or a lose muffler baffle. Fact is that, if it were a significant gearbox problem, it would not run as well as it does...

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    Gearbox is a "sealed for life" 4HP20 and, it is totally stuffed. Grinding noise along with occasional loud rattles and, really doesn't like changing gears. I have checked wheel bearings and driveshafts and they are okay - exhaust is where it should be and as quiet as it should be. One more XM goes to the knackers yard and I am carless with no money to spend on another one. Guess I am going to learn all about public transport...

  12. #12
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Why not have a look at the Eastment website for repair hints? I reckon the single most costly item would be a rebuilt converter.

    Or put in an ML5T from a 406 V6 manual.

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    WRB
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    Hi Addo,
    I spent several hours researching this on the internet - even watched one being rebuilt on youtube. Couldn't find a rebuild kit for this model and, anyway, it will be the edge broken off one of the clutch drums that has caused the problem. It actually did 200klm after the initial bang (probably the shard of aluminium getting crunched by the diff gears) but, when I got back it was noticeably worse and bring my daughter home from a party that night there was another bang followed by a rattle and now it has a permanent grinding sound. It is still drivable but, the gearbox is slowing everything down and getting louder - engine runs cleanly in park and neutral and, the brakes have plenty of meat on the and are working very well. This is far beyond my ability to repair but, I would be open to suggestions as to where I might find a good second hand one. If you could give me a list of numbers to call I would really appreciate it.
    If anyone in Citroland has ever rebuilt one of these I would be willing to pay to have this one done at a reasonable price. I cannot believe the price of a changeover unit - around US$600.00 worth of parts and 2-3 hours work.

    I might just pop up to see Barry a Heka and see what he thinks about it - I have RACV roadside assist so, I can have it towed for free if it stops on the way there or back....

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    PS: does the ML5T drop straight in or do you have to change the shafts and electricals?

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    Default Maybe not the gearbox.....

    Ummmm - just took it for a longish drive and apart from the, now intermittent, grinding sound and vibration, the car drove really well. I am beginning to think that the banging sounds were actual a baffle giving way somewhere in the exhaust - I think I will just drive it till it stops (if it is going to...)

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    Noises can be surprisingly deceptive. I guess a key one is "is the noise varying according to road speed or to engine speed?". Also, "If it might be in the exhaust, is it related to throttle opening and engine revs?"

    You might be quite lucky here, I hope.
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    Look at anything you have disturbed working on it. Handbrake cable ends can rub for example. Could you have collected a small rock in the brakes? Have you checked the intermediate bearing on the left driveshaft? It lives under the gearbox and does eventually wear and grumble.

    Taking it to someone more familiar with the XM and the gearbox might be sensible. It could also ultimately save you some money. A common problem with the gearbox relates to the pump. It will keep driving for some time like that, but you would be doing damage.

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    For what it's worth, why don't you jack it up with chocks under the rear wheels, front wheels well clear of the ground, put stands under the bottom link as close to the ball joint as possible, set the height at normal and put stands under the body as a safety.
    You can then start the engine and run the box through the gears to check for noises.
    Tony.

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    WRB
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    I am a very happy camper - it is just a blown baffle along with an engine mount that needs changing.

    Thanks Tony - I have just had this confirmed by Robert at Heka
    UFO and JohnW like this.

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    A good result, and a great start to the new year. And thanks for posting the cause of the problem for others. Happy new year to you. Tony.
    GreenBlood, JohnW, addo and 1 others like this.

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    Happy new year WRB. I am pleased your gearbox was not the problem and you got it fixed. Driving an XM is so much better than catching a bus.
    cheers Tony

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    Just Santa trying to get you the parts car you wished for?
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