C5 HDI ZF Transmission
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Thread: C5 HDI ZF Transmission

  1. #1
    Tadpole Tintin's Avatar
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    Default C5 HDI ZF Transmission

    Hi everyone,


    I'm new to this forum. I am just asking for advice on my newly acquired a 2002 Citroen C5 2.2 HDI 4 speed ZF Auto. I understand that the transmission is adaptive and learns your driving style. My question is can I reset it's current setting as it behaves strangely.

    I purchased the car a couple of weeks ago and the previous owner had it for about 3 years but only used it as a runabout, only very short trips at lowish speeds. It now always wants to choose low gears and will change down at every opportunity, especially at city speeds or when I lift off on a downhill run. I will conduct a fluid change soon to see if it helps as the car has done 220000kms.

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    Any instructions on how to reset the transmission brains will be greatly appreciated, or any ideas for that matter.

    Many thanks

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    First thing to do is do a fluid change and do then regularly, say every 20k. It should start to learn your driving style but if it is anything like the AL4 fuzzy logic box part of the learning will be in your brain as it teaches you how to drive it properly.
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    Thanks Greg

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    UFO
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    Take it out and give it a decent taste of how you want to drive it - at various speeds.

    Some say getting a straight stretch of clear road and giving it three good "blasts" will encourage the computer to learn faster.
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    You are going to love this. The inputs to the adaptive behaviour algorithm are-
    1. Throttle position and rate of change of accelerator pedal
    2. Engine speed
    3. Transmission speed
    4. Torque
    5. Transmission temperature
    6. Brakes on/off
    4. Deceleration - vehicle driving gearbox
    There's a (computer beat) clock input, to compute rates of change.
    Derived parameters-
    5. Vehicle speed
    6. Vehicle acceleration

    It stores this lot, computes (running) normal values for many parameters, and an algorithm turns it all into entries into the gear change table.

    In practice the simplest way to recalibrate the system is to take a longish drive, or a couple of drives, doing it your way on a road that can get up to say, 80 km/h so you can be sure to get into top gear.


    [edit] I should have added - adaptive boxes usually try to hold the road speed when you lift right off the pedal on a hill. That will usually mean a down shift. It's a design "feature".
    Last edited by seasink; 13th December 2014 at 09:39 PM.
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    Thank you very much for these instructions, this is brilliant. I shall take it out tomorrow and give it a good drive. Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to do this yet, but tomorrow it's time!
    Thanks again

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    And whilst you should see improvements with the above, a main guilty party is also the throttle adjustments in that year model.

    Follow the procedure step by step:

    -Get in the car , close all doors,
    -Turn ignition key to ON, not START,
    -Wait 30 seconds,
    -Turn ignition OFF,
    -Wait 15 Seconds.

    Take a few minutes break, stay in the car with doors closed.

    -Now again turn ignition ON, not START
    -Slowly depress accelerator pedal all the way to the floor,
    -Slowly take it back up
    -Start the car,

    Go for a drive , and report on the improvement. Works on 2001-2005 models.

    Cheers

    -
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  8. #8
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    Default Adaptive transmissions !

    Quote Originally Posted by Tintin View Post
    Hi everyone,
    I'm new to this forum. I am just asking for advice on my newly acquired a 2002 Citroen C5 2.2 HDI 4 speed ZF Auto. I understand that the transmission is adaptive and learns your driving style. My question is can I reset it's current setting as it behaves strangely.
    -------
    Many thanks
    Hi Tintin,
    Loved your comic strips

    Now I may be wrong but IMHO the adaptive bit of auto transmissions is really overhyped advertising. All they have are some sets of operating parameters in memory, Those which seasink mentioned. It has several sets of these in lookup tables, which it uses for comparison. Cold running, first startup, very hot running, etc and also several which would be called, loosely, little old lady driver, ordinary driver, fast driver, bloody hoon. If it sees that the driving paramenters usually match a lookup table for some running time it selects this which then sets the gear changing parameters for that style.

    So it does not really learn your style, but just compares it to several in its program. It will do this any time in its life and change it again anytime according to the program that it has regarding length of time to change to another style. I suggest that is measured in tens of minutes not hours or days. Just drive it more aggressively or use the sports button. This just moves it up the list a step or two. No memory reset is required as it is continually checking this along with all the other parameters it needs to operate.
    Jaahn
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    Thanks Harrison citroen, seasink, UFO, and Greg C.
    I took the car for a long drive today and it has improved, but after trying Harrison citroen's brilliant throttle calibration it seems to have helped also with the car able to coast without being so eager to drop to a lower gear. It seems the main fault of this gearbox is that it wants to change up at about 55km/h when accelerating, and change down at about 55km/h when decelerating. This means driving at the speed limit of 60km/h it can be a real pain, constantly changing gear as soon as you lift off, brake or accelerate.

    I still need to change the fluid in the transmission so I'm still hopeful it may improve more, and over time it may also adapt further. I plan on buying the fluid from Citroen but if anyone knows where to buy this special stuff in Adelaide it would be most helpful.

    Thanks again
    Craig

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    Thanks to you jaahn, I just saw your post. I've been using the sports button and it does improve things somewhat. The downside with this box is that it drives best above 60km/h which doesn't help when you're in the city.
    Many thanks.
    Craig

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    Try playing with rolling tyre diameter if your mileages aren't huge. A slightly larger tyre might keep you further from the shift points.

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    There are 10 gear change "laws" , 6 of which are adaptable to for normal running (something like Jaahn's explanation), following the inputs I mentioned. The driver gets to choose between sport, snow, and adaptive. 2 more laws remain, for protection of the transmission, under ECU-only control. The ECU manages more than 50 inputs to obtain the needed data.

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    - And like most committees, reaches a majority consensus only to produce a result that seems to make most people unhappy.

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    Yep produces a camel
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    I don't have a Citroen with an adaptive ZF box but the six speed Nissan auto in the diesel Koleos is adaptive. It knows that when I put my foot down I need to accelerate fast, and that when I eventually take my foot off the throttle I need to slow down. I can approach traffic lights on a trailing throttle with the box constantly downshifting (no brakes) and leaving them on the other side it changes up at the red-line. What else is there for it to learn?
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    The AL4 is like that, it tends to "bitch-slap" gentle or indecisive drivers. Let it know what you want of it, and when - no maybes - and it does try hard to keep up.
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    Hi Craig
    Quote "The downside with this box is that it drives best above 60km/h which doesn't help when you're in the city".

    Sounds like your box is operating perfectly. Love the way these boxes shift to engine requests.
    Try using sequential mode in traffic, it will stop that hunting between gears while still allowing the converter lock to operate normally. The sports button only works in auto mode, by giving you 1000 extra revs between changes.
    The downside to manual operation in traffic is remembering to downshift as required.
    I personally use Auto sports mode. Cheers Tony.
    Last edited by shanadoo; 15th December 2014 at 08:58 AM.

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    Very informative;i have a c5 which I leave in auto always,plenty of fun changing gears in xantia activa turbo. From what I gather the adaptation is fully dependant on the"loose nut behind the wheel",Andy.

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