DS rear glass demister problem
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Thread: DS rear glass demister problem

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Icon5 DS rear glass demister problem

    I have just removed the rear screen. It was so easy, but! Having carefully disconnected the demister wires I managed to get one side caught somewhere, resulting in the connection being pulled off the on glass connection point. This after having recently found out that the demister actually worked.

    Does anyone know if it is possible to re-attach the connection easily?(or do I need an expert?)

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    Don
    Citroen DS21 Pallas 1970 Renault 16TS 1976 Renault 5TS 1981

  2. #2
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tresbon2 View Post
    I have just removed the rear screen. It was so easy, but! Having carefully disconnected the demister wires I managed to get one side caught somewhere, resulting in the connection being pulled off the on glass connection point. This after having recently found out that the demister actually worked.

    Does anyone know if it is possible to re-attach the connection easily?(or do I need an expert?)

    Don
    What kind of damage was done? Did it break the solder joint or did you actually pull the trace off of the glass?
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    What kind of damage was done? Did it break the solder joint or did you actually pull the trace off of the glass?
    I'm not sure what the trace is but it was the copper piece with the spade connector (unknown to me at the time) which was somehow (soldered?) originally attached to the side section of the demisting element on the glass.
    Citroen DS21 Pallas 1970 Renault 16TS 1976 Renault 5TS 1981

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Sorry I didn't get back to you quickly, Don.

    Yah, the grid on the glass is exactly like a printed circuit board, which is normally referred to as a 'trace'..

    You might be able to resolder the tab to the grid. Don't try this on cold glass. Rather, use a hair dryer and heat the glass to above warm, then try soldering. Clean and tin your connection tab before you apply it.

    Unfortunately, there is no guarantee this will work- the material used to print these grids is finicky at best. On the plus side, there is a kit available out of England which supposedly recreates a complete demister grid on your glass.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Sorry I didn't get back to you quickly, Don.

    Yah, the grid on the glass is exactly like a printed circuit board, which is normally referred to as a 'trace'..

    You might be able to resolder the tab to the grid. Don't try this on cold glass. Rather, use a hair dryer and heat the glass to above warm, then try soldering. Clean and tin your connection tab before you apply it.

    Unfortunately, there is no guarantee this will work- the material used to print these grids is finicky at best. On the plus side, there is a kit available out of England which supposedly recreates a complete demister grid on your glass.
    My turn to apologise about time taken to reply - I have had a few days in Sydney. Thanks, especially for the tip about heating the glass. I have never been much good at soldering, so I may try to find someone who is.

    Don
    Citroen DS21 Pallas 1970 Renault 16TS 1976 Renault 5TS 1981

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    Fellow Frogger! mberry's Avatar
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    I am a member of the Uk citroen club, there is chap that advertises a recond. kit for the heated DS rear windows, if you are interested I can copy and paste his details here. I don't think it is very expensive and it seems there are a few happy customers. I can't believe it myself, but it might be worth an enquiry.

    mb

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    Hi Michael,

    I fitted one of these kits to the 69 and have to say I was a tad disappointed. I suspect it was due to me (rightly or wrongly) having the expectation that it would be an *exact* replacement for the original and that you would remove the old demister circuit and replace it with a brand new one. This is not the case.

    It consists of some sticky copper strips and brass conductors which you stick over the original demister "wires". This is a fiddly job as you need to cut the strips from the main sheet then lay them down whilst pulling the backing off. Being a curved surface and that there is no real stretch in the new wires it's a balancing act to get them to sit right. In the end despite my fastidious preparation of the surface the wires have detached in a couple of places in the places where there is a tight curve on the sides of the window.

    There is also an issue hiding the bus bars at each end as fitting them behind the originals (so you can't see them) means they conflict with the inner seal.

    Of course these things could simply be due to my ham fistedness or not reading the instructions properly...

    Having said all that I don't know how else you could do it - there is no other real way of fixing the demister other than the way DS Demist does it unless an exact replica could be found. In any case even if it was, I had a go at removing some of the old demister - very difficult to remove and would require a lot of elbow grease so a full replacement would be even more work.

    I'm not trying to say it's not worth it as it is really good that someone has had a go at putting a kit together - I'm just trying to "demystify" (pun intended) what's involved so hopefully someone else can improve on my efforts.

    If I wanted a working demister I'd go through the process again, however as with the 69 I was looking for form over function I probably would not have bothered in hindsight.

    Cheers,

    Mark...
    Last edited by ds21bvh; 17th December 2014 at 03:47 PM.

  10. #10
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    that's so sad that pulled off the rear window.... Having said that, I've never heard of a DS with working rear demist, so all you did was break the already non-working demister

    Best bet is to probably scrape the rear glass clean with a razor and apply a new demister element

    Talk about fancy new fangled stuff anyway. My ID's have no need for a rear demister
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    ...
    Of course these things could simply be due to my ham fistedness or not reading the instructions properly...
    ...
    Anything aftermarket is going to look, well, aftermarket. It's just how it is.
    Better to try the paint very sparingly where there is a break.

    It has an earth wire on the RH c-pillar, so you need to make sure that actually does earth and that you have 12 volts at the wire on the LH c-pillar to have any hope of diagnosis.

    Perhaps, surface mounting paste is a possibility for the tab? Re-soldering it will be a hassle due to the heat sink in the glass and the chance of breaking it due to a thermal shock. It was probably done at the factory with the glass heated. However, you only need to sweat it back together as both surfaces should still be tinned.

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    I have had modest success on two rear screens with the more costly conductive paint pen, I think it was about $15 from Jaycar years ago - the remains finally dried hard this winter just gone.

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Anything aftermarket is going to look, well, aftermarket. It's just how it is.
    Better to try the paint very sparingly where there is a break.

    It has an earth wire on the RH c-pillar, so you need to make sure that actually does earth and that you have 12 volts at the wire on the LH c-pillar to have any hope of diagnosis.

    Perhaps, surface mounting paste is a possibility for the tab? Re-soldering it will be a hassle due to the heat sink in the glass and the chance of breaking it due to a thermal shock. It was probably done at the factory with the glass heated. However, you only need to sweat it back together as both surfaces should still be tinned.
    All the elements turn too dust though. I don't I've ever even seen one with a single "bar" out of the entire element still working It sure does give a "D" a very clean look with the clear rear glass and no demister.... Just as well we don't really need them out here!

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  14. #14
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    I think there is often a coating over a copper circuit printed onto the glass. The coating certainly turns to dust, but it may leave a thin layer of oxidised copper than can be cleaned up. Agree, not really necessary for a weekend car not driven in bad weather.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Anything aftermarket is going to look, well, aftermarket. It's just how it is.
    Hi David,

    I agree, and would be happy with that - but the words on the website initially lead me into thinking it was an accurate copy...DS Demist ? Frequently asked questions about the DS Demist rear window demister kit

    Look under the "appearance" FAQ.

    Cheers,

    Mark...

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    I have not used it, I have just been aware of it for quite a while. I assumed...... wrongly as it seems, that it was ok. The reference pic on the site is difficult to make a judgement on. My rear window has no demister, so I thought this could work for me. I guess I will just go without, i like the look of the clean rear window anyway.

    Thankfully Mark taken one for the team on this occasion, sometimes you never know until you try for yourself. What is that they say about something being to good to be true.....

    mb

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    Quote Originally Posted by mberry View Post
    I have not used it, I have just been aware of it for quite a while. I assumed...... wrongly as it seems, that it was ok. The reference pic on the site is difficult to make a judgement on. My rear window has no demister, so I thought this could work for me. I guess I will just go without, i like the look of the clean rear window anyway.

    Thankfully Mark taken one for the team on this occasion, sometimes you never know until you try for yourself. What is that they say about something being to good to be true.....

    mb
    Sadly the kit I've seen (Mark's), falls well short of expectations.

    Two rectangular brass bus bars, and several self adhesive conductive strips.

    No doubt it would work as a demister but looks nothing like the original externally or internally, in the UK where a rear screen demister is pretty well essential it may be viewed more positively. Certainly better than any aftermarket generic kits available in that the elements do follow the curve of the screen rather than a rectangular grid.



    tresbon2, dino's solution to your original inquiry would be worth a shot - nothing to lose



    Cheers
    Chris
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    Quote Originally Posted by mberry View Post
    I am a member of the Uk citroen club, there is chap that advertises a recond. kit for the heated DS rear windows, if you are interested I can copy and paste his details here. I don't think it is very expensive and it seems there are a few happy customers. I can't believe it myself, but it might be worth an enquiry.

    mb
    Thanks Michael, but I think the Permatex item is just what I need.

    Don
    Citroen DS21 Pallas 1970 Renault 16TS 1976 Renault 5TS 1981

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    Citroen DS21 Pallas 1970 Renault 16TS 1976 Renault 5TS 1981

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