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    Default Summers in a D...

    I know this must have been discussed in the past, but my experience is that once the ambient temperature is 30 degrees plus, these cars start to struggle not to overheat. I know they run hot, and there has always been lots of discussion about heat soak and cabin temperature etc. But what about the effect on running temperature?

    I have just had my D serviced, with coolant flushed, small leak fixed, and system checked etc. Today was 34 degrees, and twice my warning light came on and I played it safe and pulled over for 20 minutes or so. Everything appeared to be ok (fan, coolant level etc). The roads were good, in undulating country (melba and maroondah hwys).

    Once i got back to the city and was in stop start traffic (34 degrees), you could feel the temp climbing and the warning light came back on quickly. I chose to nurse the car home. The other typical experience is when stopping briefly in hot weather (for fuel or whatever): on restarting the car the warning light comes on i.e without airflow the block "cooks up" a bit and peaks before beginning to cool.

    Is my experience typical and inherent in the design limitations of these (very european) cars? Or are there ways to improve coolant, radiator performance, airflow etc? Our summers are getting longer and hotter, it seems, and it is a bit boring wondering whether to take the D on a beautiful day, just because it is a bit hot...

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    Fitting a ds23 electric fan is a good idea but wire it to a switch in the cabin and turn it on in warm weather or when in traffic;if you rely on the thermostat by the time it switches on its too late,Andy.

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    they suck up cold weather and just suck in hot weather : )

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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    they suck up cold weather and just suck in hot weather : )
    What on earth do you do in Darwin to keep the running temperature down?!

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    I am of the opinion that all old cars need a temp gauge,for fairly obvious reasons.The operation of the warning light is unpredictable and in some cases too late!
    Woody

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    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    I used to find Moby Dick was quite unpleasant in the Summer, then I did some remedial work on him and now he's no worse than any other non-air conditioned car in my humble.

    On a trip from Wangaratta to Nowra a few years ago (in a group re-running the last day of the 1968 London to Sydney) I was having all sorts of overheating issues. The drive home from Nowra to Melbourne was a real pain with the temperature needle hovering in the undesirable zone nearly all the way.

    The cause was subsequently found to be the thermostat had come loose in the hose and twisted sideways, partially blocking the flow through the cooling system. Since fixing this the old bugger has behaved fine in hot weather.

    A comfort item was to install many square metres of "EZ-Cool" insulation on both sides of the firewall and under the carpets. The heat soak all but disappeared leaving a way more comfortable car. A secondary bonus was the noise reduction which was also welconme.

    Ask Shane about the EZ-Cool, or go to EZ Cool Automotive Insulation heat barrier and noise reduction for cars, trucks, classic cars, street rods and much more and read some of the testimonials.

    Driving the D doesn't have to be a penance, it should always be fun!

    Cheers, Pottsy.

    PS. For info I run the standard "DC3 propeller" cooling fan and a 10% brew of Penrite Classic Coolant. Been there/done that with the electric fan and gave up. Only non-standard part of the cooling system is an inline filter in the top hose which only needs an occasional clean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajaxvte View Post
    What on earth do you do in Darwin to keep the running temperature down?!
    well the car is still disassembled, I recommend Hydrolite solution to maintain acceptable running temperatures!
    I have now got two layers of EZCool and aluminium shield on motor side of firewall and one on inside. ( and now a word from our sponsors...)

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    you need to get the readiator rodded out and check the water pump impeller. They shouldn't overheat just because it's hot outside If you were towing a caravan ................................... Then yeah, maybe you'll have issues

    To really enjoy the summer you guys need to get yourself a nice CX DS's are nothing when compared to a CX!

    Hmmm... thinking about it. My wifes modern 407 sure is shitful in hot weather too. Yesterday was almost too hot for it. Even with the A/C running absolutely flat out with fans roaring, it was bloody hot to travel in. It suffers from the "layed back" windscreen like the CX. I reckon my CX would have been cooler too travel in as the rear A/C unit would have helped freeze the inside of the car... and it's tinted windows would have stopped all heat but that of the windscreen.

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    Have the radiator properly cleaned.

    Roger

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    The original question was about the motor overheating;all these suggestions about insulation may well keep the occupants cool but will not help if the motor carks it. As I suggested ,get a ds23 electric fan fitted inside the shroud and switch it on in hot weather or when stuck in traffic;worked for me,NEVER o'heated. This of course presumes your cooling system is up to scratch and the block is not full of crap and scale,Andy.

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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Don't start adding stuff until you know everything is working as it should. Another vote to get the radiator cleaned or re-cored. Citroen would never have released a car that overheated in the conditions you describe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajaxvte View Post
    Is my experience typical and inherent in the design limitations of these (very european) cars? Or are there ways to improve coolant, radiator performance, airflow etc? Our summers are getting longer and hotter, it seems, and it is a bit boring wondering whether to take the D on a beautiful day, just because it is a bit hot...
    These cars have been rallied all over the world in all climate conditions with only minor modifications, when set up correctly they don't overheat!!

    In 1970, Jim Reddiex, drove one of the cars to be used in the Ampol Rally from Perth to Brisbane 2,747miles at an average speed of 76.2mph!! Yes that's mph!! This was one of three new cars that had arrived in Perth for the rally with no preparation for the event, in Perth it was fitted with a long range fuel tank. With no time in Brisbane for serious preparation the car was rallied virtually stock.

    If the cooling system is in good order throughout (apart from the obvious this includes the engine driven fan has no broken blades and the vinyl shroud is not torn or holed - that fan is drawing air through the radiator), they will cope with anything an Aussie summer can throw up.


    Cheers
    Chris
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    Quote Originally Posted by alhantos View Post
    The original question was about the motor overheating;all these suggestions about insulation may well keep the occupants cool but will not help if the motor carks it. As I suggested ,get a ds23 electric fan fitted inside the shroud and switch it on in hot weather or when stuck in traffic;worked for me,NEVER o'heated. This of course presumes your cooling system is up to scratch and the block is not full of crap and scale,Andy.
    Thanks. Yes, the question was about the motor, not the occupants! Anyway, pretty sure the cooling system is up to scratch, and my sense is that the block would be ok (the car has done 166k documented miles, and fastidiously serviced etc). The radiator was replaced (new) less than 10k miles ago, but I'll get it checked and cleaned, and consider the addition of the fan.

    AM

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    Tell ya what. This is easy.
    Get a remote reading infrared thermometer. Warm up the motor and read the whole cooling system. It should be static at about 160 degrees Fahrenheit except near the exhaust manifolds. If you have a hot or cold spot showing, start thinking about that.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajaxvte View Post
    Thanks. Yes, the question was about the motor, not the occupants! Anyway, pretty sure the cooling system is up to scratch, and my sense is that the block would be ok (the car has done 166k documented miles, and fastidiously serviced etc). The radiator was replaced (new) less than 10k miles ago, but I'll get it checked and cleaned, and consider the addition of the fan.

    AM
    what's the water pump impeller like though It's not what you would call a normal service item. I've seen them rotten and broken when DS pumps are removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    These cars have been rallied all over the world in all climate conditions with only minor modifications, when set up correctly they don't overheat!!

    In 1970, Jim Reddiex, drove one of the cars to be used in the Ampol Rally from Perth to Brisbane 2,747miles at an average speed of 76.2mph!! Yes that's mph!! This was one of three new cars that had arrived in Perth for the rally with no preparation for the event, in Perth it was fitted with a long range fuel tank. With no time in Brisbane for serious preparation the car was rallied virtually stock.

    If the cooling system is in good order throughout (apart from the obvious this includes the engine driven fan has no broken blades and the vinyl shroud is not torn or holed - that fan is drawing air through the radiator), they will cope with anything an Aussie summer can throw up.


    Cheers
    Chris
    Point taken. BUT - no broken fan or torn shroud. Radiator only 10k miles old. Cooling system refilled and bled just two weeks ago. No loss of coolant. No obvious blockages or retardation of airflow.

    Hmmm. Installation of guage, re-check of radiator (and water pump), perhaps an extra fan might be in order...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajaxvte View Post
    Point taken. BUT - no broken fan or torn shroud. Radiator only 10k miles old. Cooling system refilled and bled just two weeks ago. No loss of coolant. No obvious blockages or retardation of airflow.

    Hmmm. Installation of guage, re-check of radiator (and water pump), perhaps an extra fan might be in order...
    If the car was unused for any length of time before your ownership there may now be crud moving through the system which will find it's way into the radiator and cause blockage. A good tip is to fit a filter at the top radiator hose at the radiator, the foot of a nylon stocking was an old solution. In Brisbane Arthur Lewis (now retired Cit mechanic) would make a filter using bronze mesh, these were regularly checked at each service and invariably had collected a good amount of crud - over several services the amount reduced to almost zero.

    So whilst your radiator may be new it could easily be somewhat impaired in 10k?

    Cheers
    Chris
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    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Dumb question now: is the fan belt snug when the motor is warm?

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    I recently replaced my 2 core radiator with a 3 core unit. The factory temp guage has been sitting about half way ever since... used to read at the top of the white band... not a precise temp. figure of course but it is a trend in the cooler range, and it seems to be more stable... little variation depending on the conditions. This summer will be it's first test since I fitted it though so see how it goes. I've only had the warning light come on once in 5 yrs, that was on a 40+ 3 hr drive and on a long hill climb... that's when I decided to upgrade the radiator. The water pump has also been replaced as well as the lower elbow, rubber pipes and thermostat.

    Matthew

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    My D runs 80-85C (proper guage fitted) at all times unless the ambient temp is above 32 or so. Then it will creep up past 90 especially if in stop start traffic. On a hot day (who voluntarily drives a D on a hot day?) on the highway the temp will almost get to 90. Other than the temp guage the system is standard.
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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Maybe the temp sensor for the warning light is a bit off. It would be good to remove it while the radiator is being checked and check at what temp the light comes on. I have not been able to find a value in the D manuals but in a CX they come on around 110C.

    In UFO's example at 80-85C the thermostat would be just opening to about half. Thermostat opens at 79C. At 90 it would be fully open (test of D thermostat is to drop into water at 90C and it should fully open in 20 secs). Therefore in that case the cooling system is being regulated by the thermostat not limited in any way by capacity of the cooling system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnm View Post
    I recently replaced my 2 core radiator with a 3 core unit. The factory temp guage has been sitting about half way ever since... used to read at the top of the white band... not a precise temp. figure of course but it is a trend in the cooler range, and it seems to be more stable... little variation depending on the conditions. This summer will be it's first test since I fitted it though so see how it goes. I've only had the warning light come on once in 5 yrs, that was on a 40+ 3 hr drive and on a long hill climb... that's when I decided to upgrade the radiator. The water pump has also been replaced as well as the lower elbow, rubber pipes and thermostat.

    Matthew
    I can certainly speak to the 3 core radiator achieving better heat transfer. I had an old radiator redone with a 3 core unit and in winter here I struggled to get any decent heat into the car. Changed the thermostat for a few degrees hotter but it made very little difference, just the temp warning light came on. Managed to pick up a secondhand radiator and fitted that with the old thermostat and hooray I got some useful heat back into the cabin again.

    So I learned that the normal airflow through a 3 core radiator removes heat a damn site better than a standard D radiator in the same road conditions. The heat transfer coefficient and area must be quite a lot higher, which will help in hot weather too.

    Cheers

    Marc
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    Just a thought have you checked the radiator cap, my D Special would show a red light on a really hot day 40C until I replaced the cap.

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    They generally are pretty good if the radiator has been modified with the extra cores, then the only over heating is you on a hot day. option 2 do what I did and put in a CX radiator and fans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by d coupe View Post
    They generally are pretty good if the radiator has been modified with the extra cores, then the only over heating is you on a hot day. option 2 do what I did and put in a CX radiator and fans.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I wish I could install a fan like your pic! Where is your spare tyre?! I bought 12V fan about 200 mm in diameter and made box to mount fan under my spare. I could not fit any fan because of spare tyre.
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