DS air control valve
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Thread: DS air control valve

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    Default DS air control valve

    Apparently my air control valve is not working.
    (It was working when it went into the repairer's workshop).

    It regulates air flow during cold start/run, with water flowing through one end and air the other.

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    One person has suggested a cheaper solution is to install a BX electronic unit.

    Has anyone dealt with this before and what was the solution?


    Adrian

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  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Those things are a wax filled device.... and are problematic. I'm pretty sure David S has other solutions too. Have a look around on the DS lists and see what others have done to get around the problem with this thing.

    Good to hear the problem has been isolated! If it's bypassed does the car run properly when warm

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! mberry's Avatar
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    There is one on ebay.de

    http://www.ebay.de/itm/Citroen-DS-21...item35df989948

    not sure if you can use that
    Last edited by mberry; 19th November 2014 at 01:32 PM.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger
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    It's rather like a thermostat and just allows extra air in to compensate for the extra fuel used when it's cold. I have rebuilt one using a thermostat element, but Franzose now have the correct element so I'll be reworking that eventually. The air valve has been sometimes available on an exchange basis, but it's always been very costly for what it is. The difficulty is that it's all pressed together, so you need a lathe to turn up a new base to be able to press it all together again. The base also tends to corrode around the wax element's brass bulb, so in an extreme case it might even allow some coolant consumption. You could probably adapt a valve from some other D-Jet system, but the connections are all a bit different.

    If it doesn't work, then the mixture will not be correct, so you either need to make it work or you bypass it, adjust the mixture and then live with difficult starting. It should be possible to have the car running correctly when warm even with a stuck air valve if you compensate elsewhere. I'd be trying to free it initially using carby cleaner, but the wax element can be damaged if it has been stuck and it may no longer have the correct stroke, even if you free it. If the engine can't be made to run correctly when warmed up by bypassing the air valve and making suitable adjustments, then there would still be some other problem to find.

    The part Michael points to would do the job. I don't think the exchange ones cost quite that much, but the wax element alone was around 35 Euro from Franzose.
    Last edited by David S; 19th November 2014 at 01:48 PM.

  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mberry View Post
    There is one on ebay.de

    Citroen DS 21 IE Zusatzluftschieber Bosch 0280140014 original in OVP | eBay

    not sure if you can use that
    Wow that's expensive ... you could convert to megasquirt and throw away the ancient broken bits for that much

    Another thought, is it possible there is no coolant flow to it .... or a big air bubble so it always thinks the engine is cold
    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 19th November 2014 at 02:17 PM.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mberry View Post
    There is one on ebay.de

    Citroen DS 21 IE Zusatzluftschieber Bosch 0280140014 original in OVP | eBay

    not sure if you can use that
    thanks Michael I may have found one cheaper.


    Adrian

    _________________

    Current;

    Xantia V6 Exclusive Auto 2000


    Past;

    CX25 GTI Turbo series 1 1985
    DS23 IE Pallas 5sp 1974
    CX25ie Pallas Auto 1984 Parts
    2CV 1988
    CX25ie Pallas Auto 1984

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    It's rather like a thermostat and just allows extra air in to compensate for the extra fuel used when it's cold. I have rebuilt one using a thermostat element, but Franzose now have the correct element so I'll be reworking that eventually. The air valve has been sometimes available on an exchange basis, but it's always been very costly for what it is. The difficulty is that it's all pressed together, so you need a lathe to turn up a new base to be able to press it all together again. The base also tends to corrode around the wax element's brass bulb, so in an extreme case it might even allow some coolant consumption. You could probably adapt a valve from some other D-Jet system, but the connections are all a bit different.

    If it doesn't work, then the mixture will not be correct, so you either need to make it work or you bypass it, adjust the mixture and then live with difficult starting. It should be possible to have the car running correctly when warm even with a stuck air valve if you compensate elsewhere. I'd be trying to free it initially using carby cleaner, but the wax element can be damaged if it has been stuck and it may no longer have the correct stroke, even if you free it. If the engine can't be made to run correctly when warmed up by bypassing the air valve and making suitable adjustments, then there would still be some other problem to find.

    The part Michael points to would do the job. I don't think the exchange ones cost quite that much, but the wax element alone was around 35 Euro from Franzose.
    thanks David, great information.


    Adrian

    _________________

    Current;

    Xantia V6 Exclusive Auto 2000


    Past;

    CX25 GTI Turbo series 1 1985
    DS23 IE Pallas 5sp 1974
    CX25ie Pallas Auto 1984 Parts
    2CV 1988
    CX25ie Pallas Auto 1984

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Wow that's expensive ... you could convert to megasquirt and throw away the ancient broken bits for that much


    I think megasquirt conversion would be a much bigger investment.

    Another thought, is it possible there is no coolant flow to it .... or a big air bubble so it always thinks the engine is cold
    You know what, this is very possible indeed.


    Adrian

    _________________

    Current;

    Xantia V6 Exclusive Auto 2000


    Past;

    CX25 GTI Turbo series 1 1985
    DS23 IE Pallas 5sp 1974
    CX25ie Pallas Auto 1984 Parts
    2CV 1988
    CX25ie Pallas Auto 1984

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! mberry's Avatar
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    It appears Sassen has most of the IE parts new for sale.

    1030bAdditional air slide Bosch revised on request, AT

    € 429.00

    5573Additional air slide extension element for overhaul

    € 48.50

    Head to the bottom of the page.
    IE Steuerung

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    thanks MB, I'd not seen this parts supplier before.

    Quote Originally Posted by mberry View Post
    It appears Sassen has most of the IE parts new for sale.

    1030bAdditional air slide Bosch revised on request, AT

    € 429.00

    5573Additional air slide extension element for overhaul

    € 48.50

    Head to the bottom of the page.
    IE Steuerung


    Adrian

    _________________

    Current;

    Xantia V6 Exclusive Auto 2000


    Past;

    CX25 GTI Turbo series 1 1985
    DS23 IE Pallas 5sp 1974
    CX25ie Pallas Auto 1984 Parts
    2CV 1988
    CX25ie Pallas Auto 1984

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! marc61's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IE23 View Post
    Apparently my air control valve is not working.
    (It was working when it went into the repairer's workshop).

    It regulates air flow during cold start/run, with water flowing through one end and air the other.

    One person has suggested a cheaper solution is to install a BX electronic unit.

    Has anyone dealt with this before and what was the solution?
    Hi, I've got a second hand one if you'd like it, from 23EFI. It's been stored since 1996 when I converted to twin carbs. I don't know for sure that it works. But it's just collecting dust so if its of any help drop me a message.

    Cheers

    Marc
    popinandgettaa likes this.
    Cheers, Marc.

    1987 CX GTi T2 Maikonics
    1972 SM 2.7 carb
    1972 DS21 EFI

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger
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    You can easily test it by immersion of the water side in boiling water, although it should close well below boiling. Cold water after that should see it open again. There will be a slight delay in the response, but the movement of the piston should be obvious through the side port. However, after almost 20 years on the shelf, the piston might be a bit sticky and needing some initial lubricant as encouragement.

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