C5 Auto problems AL4
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Thread: C5 Auto problems AL4

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default C5 Auto problems AL4

    Hi All
    I have had my C5 2004 HDi automatic re-conditioned by a european automatic specialist with disappointing results.
    It has been back 3 times they have replaced the solenoids about 3 times and finally installed a extra large oil cooler, which has not improved the auto from intermittently going into limp mode and slipping and thumping when driven in peak hour traffic.
    They have reconditioned a number of these and are scratching their heads on how to fix mine.
    I heard there was an upgrade for these with larger oil galleries.
    Any ideas out there.
    Please help

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  2. #2
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    Could the problem be outside the gearbox completely? Eg, diesel "throttle" position being sent correctly?

  3. #3
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    Hi snooze,
    Not good ! However could you give any information off any diagnostic interrogations ? Probably need a bit more information to make any suggestions.
    Jaahn

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hi snooze,

    "It has been back 3 times they have replaced the solenoids about 3 times and finally installed a extra large oil cooler, I heard there was an upgrade for these with larger oil galleries".

    Your gearbox should have been already fitted with the larger oil cooler, so seems strange they replaced it yet again, I say again because they would/should have replaced the cooler when they did the overhaul. Unless they wasted your money and used an aftermarket remote unit. The upgrade "Larger galleries" would have been done by the factory before your C5 vintage.
    Sounds like they're guessing. Get a Lexia download by someone who can read the damn codes properly. Cheers.

  5. #5
    Tadpole
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    I'll try again. 1st post disappeared
    Citroen made el cheapo gearboxes - the AL4
    You need to buy a replacement box (made in SA I believe) as I had to when mine had all these problems every moans about.
    The new box will have brass bushes, not the carbon fibre crap used by Citroen.
    Cost about $5k.
    Mine was fixed by Brisbane Citroen
    No more worries
    Will last forever
    Cheers
    David
    david
    pillsnpotions

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
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    David, Slight correction here. The AL4 is a German made SIEMENS unit. It is equally problematic ( or not ) for other brands as well.
    My current C5 has a Mitsubishi starter, a VALEO alternator and the HDi diesel system is a SIEMENS product. Some door seals are by Metzeler ... some have Bosch brakes, some use TEVES ..... truly an international product. Citroen have not had a good run with the bought in automatics ... BW35s in DSs , some of the ZFs in various Citroens are either swear by or swear AT varieties...even the supposedly 6 speed from Aisin Warner isn't without its problems..again valve/solenoid related.... Maybe Citroen and now PSA buy cheap ?

  7. #7
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    Why stop with that list - I've a list of suppliers for the current C4 - an international gathering whose most common tongue is definitely German. There's even Japanese and Americans there.

  8. #8
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund View Post
    David, Slight correction here. The AL4 is a German made SIEMENS unit. It is equally problematic ( or not ) for other brands as well.
    My current C5 has a Mitsubishi starter, a VALEO alternator and the HDi diesel system is a SIEMENS product. Some door seals are by Metzeler ... some have Bosch brakes, some use TEVES ..... truly an international product. Citroen have not had a good run with the bought in automatics ... BW35s in DSs , some of the ZFs in various Citroens are either swear by or swear AT varieties...even the supposedly 6 speed from Aisin Warner isn't without its problems..again valve/solenoid related.... Maybe Citroen and now PSA buy cheap ?
    I doubt they buy cheap really. I suspect those devices all behave the same way but people are reluctant to admit a problem with them fitted into a "reliable" brand and "everyone knows French cars are unreliable". I won't go on...

    Bad luck Snooze and hope it sorts itself fairly quickly. I'm with Jaahn's advice myself.
    JohnW

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  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradbury View Post
    I'll try again. 1st post disappeared
    Citroen made el cheapo gearboxes - the AL4
    You need to buy a replacement box (made in SA I believe) as I had to when mine had all these problems every moans about.
    The new box will have brass bushes, not the carbon fibre crap used by Citroen.
    Cost about $5k.
    Mine was fixed by Brisbane Citroen
    No more worries
    Will last forever
    Cheers
    David
    ????????
    jaahn likes this.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund View Post
    David, Slight correction here. The AL4 is a German made SIEMENS unit. It is equally problematic ( or not ) for other brands as well.
    My current C5 has a Mitsubishi starter, a VALEO alternator and the HDi diesel system is a SIEMENS product. Some door seals are by Metzeler ... some have Bosch brakes, some use TEVES ..... truly an international product. Citroen have not had a good run with the bought in automatics ... BW35s in DSs , some of the ZFs in various Citroens are either swear by or swear AT varieties...even the supposedly 6 speed from Aisin Warner isn't without its problems..again valve/solenoid related.... Maybe Citroen and now PSA buy cheap ?
    European Union stuff. Except my C5 has a big Aussie nut behind the steering wheel.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanadoo View Post
    European Union stuff. Except my C5 has a big Aussie nut behind the steering wheel.
    So your surname is Macadamia?
    Brendan.
    shanadoo and jaahn like this.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluey504 View Post
    So your surname is Macadamia?
    Brendan.
    Could be, but the parents called me Goaway.

  13. #13
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    Apart from "failure to proceed " situations I wonder how many problems are due to perception issues. A case in point. The 4 speed INVECS in my old Mitsubishi is supposedly able to learn driving style...I can never notice any change in its shift patterns, and while it has only 4 forward ratios to choose from, it is always right. The 6 speed in my C5 also is supposed to learn the drivers style and I suppose it does, but it also seems to respond quicker after a bout of manual over ride. I wonder about the newest generation 8/9 speed stuff ( as in Jeep )that must have friction surfaces/valves that are smaller to fit twice as many bits into the same overall gearbox size, and the chances that with 8 ratios they will make/select the correct decision only 50% of the time over a 4 speeder. The lock up able on 3rd and 4th on BXs seemed to cause some driver learning or experience .. and the non slip locked up converter on my old Camry was set too low at 60 k/p h. Are the damn things too complicated for their own good, all in the search for minimal at best fuel savings ?? The Americans came up with very reliable simple autos in the 60s. Things seem to have gone backwards. Is this the driver towards CVTs ???

  14. #14
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    Citroen have not had a good run with the bought in automatics ... BW35s in DSs , some of the ZFs in various Citroens are either swear by or swear AT varieties...even the supposedly 6 speed from Aisin Warner isn't without its problems..again valve/solenoid related.... Maybe Citroen and now PSA buy cheap ?

    I want to stick up for the BW35 in the DS23 efi. A very reliable unit and gave us no trouble in 230k km in our ownership. The only problem I knew of was as seals hardened oil could exchange between the separate diff and gearbox. Not in our 24 years.
    Using the correct auto transmission and diff oils was important.
    frenchtranstech likes this.

  15. #15
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    Siemens only make the electronic component.

  16. #16
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    Great words
    agree totally
    i was involved so much in all those units throughout the 80s and 90s

  17. #17
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    Those factory bushes came out on the last of the Al4s, Bushes are actually bronze coated
    Sonnax U S A have bush kits that can be used on overhaul.

  18. #18
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradbury View Post
    You need to buy a replacement box (made in SA I believe) as I had to when mine had all these problems every moans about.
    AFAIK, the AL4 (and all its iterations, like AT8, EAT8, DPO, etc.) are made in Valenciennes (in France) and in China.
    Regards,

    Simon

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