CX steering query
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    Default CX steering query

    The 1981 CX Familiale we've brought back after Raid Arctique has a distinct pull to the left. As the front left lower ball joint was showing signs of wear we replaced it yesterday. This has however not improved the situation.

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    Previously the adjustment that can be made to the cam on the steering shaft was done - also with no noticeable improvement.

    What to do next? In the collective wisdom of forum members is it likely to require replacement of the diravi? If so how difficult a task is it to do so?
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  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Huh !!! ... Replace it .... No way!

    The adjuster cam only has a small range of adjustment. You will be just outside this. Just move both tracking rod adjusters the identical amount in whatever direction it needs to go to drive straight ( though it would probably be better to center the rack and adjuster and start from scratch).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    Thanks Shane. I have glanced at
    Citroen CX Steering Rack restoration.
    and mentally decided this was to go in the too hard basket.

    Will look at the tracking rod adjusters for my salvation.
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

  4. #4
    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    Default

    I've not seen photos of said Familiale; care to share?

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    I did post images and the story of the car up to my departure at
    2014 Raid "Arctique"
    and during the European adventure at
    French & Fantastic Automobile Club of WA ? View topic - to the emerald isle and beyond
    My ISP only allows his own customers with his IP addresses to access his server so I couldn't post to the original site once I left home.
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

  6. #6
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmac View Post
    The 1981 CX Familiale we've brought back after Raid Arctique has a distinct pull to the left. As the front left lower ball joint was showing signs of wear we replaced it yesterday. This has however not improved the situation.

    Previously the adjustment that can be made to the cam on the steering shaft was done - also with no noticeable improvement.

    What to do next? In the collective wisdom of forum members is it likely to require replacement of the diravi? If so how difficult a task is it to do so?
    Wow. It's back already. We'll have to come and see it!!!
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  7. #7
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    Would be a good idea to check your rear arm bearings,Andy.

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    Thanks for that tip Andy. Other CX drivers following the car tell me that they seem to be OK for alignment but I'll have a look anyway.
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

  9. #9
    Member tinfoilstar's Avatar
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    My cx prestige has excessive play on the steering. When tyres were replaced the mechanic showed me. Where link goes to rack... or there about?

    So i havne gone anythibg yet. Cant work on it myself. Will hv to get someone. But first i arm myself with knowledge.
    And of course a place to purchase all parts...
    Upper and lower joints etc

    Will keenly follow this post.

    Hav u started with the tyres?

    CX steering query-1416067582905.jpg
    CX steering query-1416067717691.jpg


    Via the aussiefrogs App

  10. #10
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinfoilstar View Post
    My cx prestige has excessive play on the steering. When tyres were replaced the mechanic showed me. Where link goes to rack... or there about?

    So i havne gone anythibg yet. Cant work on it myself. Will hv to get someone. But first i arm myself with knowledge.
    And of course a place to purchase all parts...
    Upper and lower joints etc

    Will keenly follow this post.

    Hav u started with the tyres?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Via the aussiefrogs App
    Your steering rack is leaking .... it'll be causing the bush in the back of the inner tieroad joint to break down. THe inside of the rack boot shouldn't be wet with LHM!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  11. #11
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    I suspect a rack leak too. They leak or they don't, nothing in between. You can buy full seal kits from CX-Basis. Not a trivial job.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinfoilstar View Post
    My cx prestige has excessive play on the steering. When tyres were replaced the mechanic showed me. Where link goes to rack... or there about?

    So i havne gone anythibg yet. Cant work on it myself. Will hv to get someone. But first i arm myself with knowledge.
    And of course a place to purchase all parts...
    Upper and lower joints etc

    Will keenly follow this post.

    Hav u started with the tyres?
    The tyres were fitted, new, when I picked up the car. They've done 7,000 miles since, around Eire then up to Lapland in northern Sweden and from there to Paris. No sign of any abnormal wear.

    I'll keep this thread updated as I work on it. Below is my understanding of what is required. Please feel free to edit where necessary.

    CX steering query-steering-query-691-2.jpg
    Steering 101 (for Dummies)
    In the above image I assume that the red arrow points to the point where adjustment needs to be made.
    1. Loosen off the lock nut? Which is ... ? Smaller nut???
    2. Turn larger nut clockwise. ???? set number of turns 1,2,3
    3. Tighten lock nut.
    Go to other side of the steering rack and repeat except at 2. turn same number of turns anti-clockwise.

    Prior to doing this place car on a level surface, adjust cam on base of steering column back to a central position.
    Current Cars
    Australia's 2016 C5 2.0HDi Last
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
    1973 Citroen D Super 5,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
    1991 Mazda E2200
    1924 Citroen 'la petit citron'

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmac View Post
    The 1981 CX Familiale we've brought back after Raid Arctique has a distinct pull to the left. As the front left lower ball joint was showing signs of wear we replaced it yesterday. This has however not improved the situation.

    Previously the adjustment that can be made to the cam on the steering shaft was done - also with no noticeable improvement.

    What to do next? In the collective wisdom of forum members is it likely to require replacement of the diravi? If so how difficult a task is it to do so?
    It's not going to suddenly start pulling left for no reason. With a CX you can initially discount problems like sticky calipers and a flat tyre. Fiddling with the track rod ends is not likely to fix an underlying problem. So, you want to know what has changed. No cracks or loose bolts in the rack crossmember? Can you turn it fully left to right normally? Is there any 'slop' or hysteresis in the behaviour of the control head? If one of the 4 plastic balls breaks up inside the control head, then you will have some very unpredictable behaviour and it may tend to pull one way or the other. The eccentric adjuster between the pinion and control unit is just meant for final trimming of the tracking, not wholesale adjustment or wheel alignment, so if you need to make such a large change there, then you really need to start over on the rack adjustment.


    Quote Originally Posted by tinfoilstar View Post
    My cx prestige has excessive play on the steering. When tyres were replaced the mechanic showed me. Where link goes to rack... or there about?
    ...
    It looks like your car has the steel inner joint rather than the rubber bush type knuckle used on earlier models. The rack does appear to be leaking, but that may not have caused the wear on the knuckle. There are long and short versions of that part, so you need to know exactly what you are chasing to rectify your problem. You need to do the normal wear checks on all the other parts to determine whether any need replacing. Don't forget, the design of the control head is such that you are supposed to have about 10 degrees free movement of the wheel without any pressure and it will feel like the column is broken to anyone not familiar with the system. Also check that it's not actually leaking LHM from above the rack at the brake and steering control unit returns. There's a rubber T in there that splits and it lives above the pinion.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmac View Post

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	steering-query-691-2.jpg 
Views:	1040 
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ID:	62978
    Steering 101 (for Dummies)
    In the above image I assume that the red arrow points to the point where adjustment needs to be made.
    1. Loosen off the lock nut? Which is ... ? Smaller nut???
    2. Turn larger nut clockwise. ???? set number of turns 1,2,3
    3. Tighten lock nut.
    Go to other side of the steering rack and repeat except at 2. turn same number of turns anti-clockwise.

    Prior to doing this place car on a level surface, adjust cam on base of steering column back to a central position.
    Yes, the visible nut arrowed is the locknut on the later type inner knuckle. You slacken it and turn the knuckle via the flat on its outer end, just behind the locknut.

    If you are uncertain of how it has all been set up, you really want to centre the rack separately to the coupling (i.e. uncouple it), then set up the wheel alignment and then connect the control unit before trimming the tracking. It's not hard to adjust it (incorrectly) so you are then always fighting against the hydraulics to keep it in a straight line.

  15. #15
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    My cx 85 gti was pulling to the left;adjusted steering and all ok. When rear arm bearings replaced,yes,you guessed it,it pulled to the right. Adjusted again and all ok;that is why I suggested checking the rear arm bearings first,Andy.

  16. #16
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alhantos View Post
    My cx 85 gti was pulling to the left;adjusted steering and all ok. When rear arm bearings replaced,yes,you guessed it,it pulled to the right. Adjusted again and all ok;that is why I suggested checking the rear arm bearings first,Andy.
    The Wisdom of Experience. Was the car wandering a bit before the rears were done?
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    I would caution against any fiddling with track rods without the necessary equipment to measure the toe in very accurately. Especially as the tyres are not being worn excessively means everything is OK there. Therefore the problem must be somewhere else.
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  18. #18
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    I would caution against any fiddling with track rods without the necessary equipment to measure the toe in very accurately. Especially as the tyres are not being worn excessively means everything is OK there. Therefore the problem must be somewhere else.
    If you adjust both tracking rods by the same amount, you don't change the alignment settings, your moving the steerings "center" point. I still have to do my CX too.... Oneday, when I have time The instructions in the manual are quite good for this.

    --pin the rack at center
    --loosen the coupling bolts and adjust the eccentric to center
    --allow the steering to center itself and tighten up the coupling bolts.
    --They set the alignment using a 4wheel aligner....

    You could do the same by first setting the toe in too 0.0 degrees, then winding each adjuster in too give a toe in of 1mm each side (so 2mm over all)...

    So you could set the alignment using for example an extendable tent pole to the correct toe in ..... Then drive the car and adjust both tracking rods until it runs straight, and this should end up giving you the exact same setting as a 4wheel aligner with an operator that knows what there doing.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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