GS subframe and trailer question.
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Thread: GS subframe and trailer question.

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Default GS subframe and trailer question.

    I'm pulling apart a rusty GS, and am trying to work out the quickest and best way to store the parts.
    As the body shell is just going to be cut up, I'm wondering if I should just unbolt the front subframe with the motor/ box still in situ. It will be a big chunk to store (not as bad as the front cut of a Xantia I have in the back of the garage) but being on wheels might be easier to move around until I get around to finally pulling it all apart (I might be able to rack it somehow above the Xantia cut).
    Anyone pulled the whole assembly out before? Any hints / tips?
    When it comes to further disassembly, is there any benefit to having the subframe still attached to a body shell?

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    I had thought of doing a smaller version of Shane's trailer with the back, but it's beginning to look like too much work so I might try to pull out the rear subframe with suspension in situ as well.
    I don't know anything about trailer dynamics. If I do go ahead with making one, what would make a better trailer suspension - the GS rear suspension or the back axle of a Xantia that I have sitting in the shed?



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    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

  2. #2
    pba
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    I found this on youtube CitroŽn GSA motor - YouTube It is a little blurry, undoing & removing nuts & bolts is skipped, but you do get an idea of how it's done.

    cheers,
    pba

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Bump.

    I never got around to finishing the dismantling of this car, but have spent the weekend finally attacking it again. However I've struck the usual problem, the tools I have won't budge the Nuts and bolts holding the subframe to the car.

    Any tips on what those who've done it before have used? Will just a much longer handle on the socket do it?
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Bruce,

    Use a rattle gun with six sided impact sockets.

    Ken
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    Hi,
    You can buy a 12v rattle gun and use it for other things as well. Those bloody wheel nuts the tire shop does up to 4000ftlbs and you cannot shift. A cheap set of black six sided long impact sockets at Supercheaps or the like will always come in handy for when you need a long socket too Cheep.
    Jaahn

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Thanks Ken and Jaahn, looks like I need to add another tool to the box.
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Sounds like a big job Bruce. What condition is the front subframe in? The reason I ask is because my GS has a crack where the lower right bush fits. It has been welded up a couple of times but the bushes don't last long especially with the larger wheels.

    If that subframe has good lower bushes and anti-roll bar drop links I would be keen to know if you would like to sell it. I'm happy to help you with removal too as I will be coming up soon to remove a CX break rear subframe from one of Kimmo's wrecks.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Hi Andy
    At the moment it is so covered in muck I don't know what condition it is in, but everything else on this car is fairly worn so I'd assume it is also. I really just want to remove it so I've got a more mobile cradle on which to store the motor and box etc. So I'm not super keen to immediately sell it.
    If I get anywhere with it and can see its condition I'll let you know. Back at work this week, so when that will be........
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce H View Post
    Hi Andy
    At the moment it is so covered in muck I don't know what condition it is in, but everything else on this car is fairly worn so I'd assume it is also. I really just want to remove it so I've got a more mobile cradle on which to store the motor and box etc. So I'm not super keen to immediately sell it.
    If I get anywhere with it and can see its condition I'll let you know. Back at work this week, so when that will be........
    OK I understand and I'm not desperate for a front end so there must be some others out there. I recall you asking me if my GS had the forged lower arms. I noticed a couple of recent restorations have these. Do you know if and why they would be better than the pressed arms? The widened rims probably put extra pressure on components so I may need to consider these if they are stronger.

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    I was unaware that GS ever had forged lower arms! The upper arms carry the load. The lower arms merely stabilise the hub!
    Which GS had these? Maybe the Birotor?
    Cheers Gerry

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    I'm fairly sure they were lower arms and that some 'Export' markets got them - I had them in a '78ish Pallas that I had a long time ago that had come in from either Malaysia or Singapore. From what I was told at the time they were popular amongst the folk who were rallying GSs.
    Last edited by Bruce H; 10th October 2015 at 04:37 PM. Reason: Typos
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
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    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    I Wonder if it might not be possible to modify a pair of upper arms to replace the lower pressed units. All one would need do is to remove the bump stop blade and invert the arm. As both upper and lower ball joint are identical and the anti roll bar operates on the upper arm I cannot see a problem!!!!!
    Cheers Gerry

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    re arms; no personal experience, just discussion with the vendor of VB-whatever*, years ago, who said it had the un-pressed (cast? forged?) extolled as the very desirable 'GE' (export? etrange?) spec.

    *le conte et cie's
    Last edited by fnqvmuch; 10th October 2015 at 06:38 PM.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRB View Post
    I have been meaning to tell you Gerry, I have the 818-2 manual and they state that the body can be removed from the subframe without removing everything and that this makes it easier to remove every thing you need to before re-jigging it. They even show a photo of the body being removed (with Citroens "Special engine crane attachment to make it easy). The thing is totally dressed in engine suspension and wheels looking very flimsy. They recommend replacing everything into the sub-frame before putting the body back on after the frame has been has be re-jigged - can't help feeling that the weight of everything would pull the frame out of alignment again....
    You are talking about a CX here are you not?
    CX was built that way with the body joined to the completely assembled sub frames and longerons. Removal via this method is only possible using specialised jigs and bracing. It is not feasible for the home workshop!
    Cheers Gerry

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Dropped the trailer idea, may yet do it with a less another less rusty sedan I'll probably pull apart.
    Got the rear subframe out, and one cutting disk/ one pillar short of having the roof off.
    Think I'll just cut the whole front off for the moment and pursue the rattle gun approach later.
    GS subframe and trailer question.-image.jpg
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce H View Post
    Dropped the trailer idea, may yet do it with a less another less rusty sedan I'll probably pull apart.
    Got the rear subframe out, and one cutting disk/ one pillar short of having the roof off.
    Think I'll just cut the whole front off for the moment and pursue the rattle gun approach later.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Will you make a trailer similar to Shane's, a very tiny teardrop style? I considered the GS rear subframe, while very compact, would not make a very practical trailer for carrying much. I feel the CX rear subframe would work well as it could be widened by welding in a longer centre tube and I checked with a company that makes springs and they could make a longer anti-roll bar to fit. Better still use a break (wagon) rear frame for larger struts and higher load capacity. One day I would like to bolt this up to a standard 7x4 with a teardrop canopy fitting over the top. That way it could be used to carry loads and also used for camping. I wonder if Shane still uses his much and what the weight capacity before it refuses to rise off the bump stops?
    Last edited by Andy N; 11th October 2015 at 06:59 PM.

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    My Question is this! If you built such a trailer how do you intend to power the hydraulic pump that is necessary to operate the suspension??????????
    Cheers Gerry

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    From memory Shane was using a wiper motor to power the pump.
    I was thinking a very compact open trailer for those occasions when you didn't want to get the inside of the wagon all dirty.
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Which Pump was used?
    Cheers Gerry

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    I thought that is what you were aiming for Bruce. Would that hitch up to the back of your DS3? That would make the perfect size shopping trolley to cart things around for that size car.

    Guessing a wiper motor operating the GS single piston pump would take some time to raise from low but if there is little internal leakage in the system it just needs to occasionally tick over to keep things level. I wonder what Shane used to signal the wiper motor to cut in?

    For the larger box trailer I would use a 5 or 7 piston rotary pump spun by a high torque cordless drill placed in a box on the drawbar. The regulator would need some kind of microswitch fitted to signal the drill into action in the same cut-in/cut-out cycles. So there would be an accumulator attached to the regulator, the height lever would be brought forward into the box and a more compact reservoir for holding fluid used. Braking system would be removed and hydraulics used only for load leveling and height control for ease of loading or negotiating rough terrain (intermediate setting). Question is "how to find a cordless drill with enough grunt to drive a hydraulic pump?"

    Sorry in advance Bruce if this turns into another hydraulic trailer thread......
    Last edited by Andy N; 13th October 2015 at 07:37 AM.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    No worries, Andy. The more I learn the closer I might get to doing it .
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    This is about the size I was contemplating - obviously I'd have to work out where / how to mount the drawbar (including deciding how much of the under seat box section to remove); and finish off the front (complete with extending the pillars up to complete a tie-bar level with the front of the trailer); and cut down the weight in the boot lid and hinge it at the bottom; etc; etc; etc.......GS subframe and trailer question.-image.jpgGS subframe and trailer question.-image.jpgGS subframe and trailer question.-image.jpg
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

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