Citroens UFO spawns a brand
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Thread: Citroens UFO spawns a brand

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    Default Citroens UFO spawns a brand

    Interesting ( or is it sad ) article in todays New York Times (The New York Times - Breaking News, World News & Multimedia) . On the home page bottom left in the Automobiles section . Essentially splitting the name DS off as a separate PSA brand and the China centric focus of PSA.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    still the same bumpy thumpy crap though .... Give it GS suspension, center point steering and high pressure brakes with no stupidly big wheels and we might show some interest

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    Citroen DNA mon cul!

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    Funny thing is, that's exactly what the tech savvy younger people would take to if they marketed it properly.

    Imagine if they pushed the historical slant on Citroen being 50 years ahead of their time with the DS, then the fact that the design had to hibernate because the world wasn't ready for it; it was too advanced and its time is now. With modern technology, materials, electronics and a lovely modern turbodiesel six speed manual and that fantastic suspension they're back.

    With the right marketing and product they could make it a real winner. But it would be absolutely critical to make the suspension fault free. One recurrent reliability issue could be the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    still the same bumpy thumpy crap though .... Give it GS suspension, center point steering and high pressure brakes with no stupidly big wheels and we might show some interest

    seeya,
    Shane L.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    But it would be absolutely critical to make the suspension fault free. One recurrent reliability issue could be the end.
    The most reliable part of all citroens has always been the suspension system, it already is troublefree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen View Post
    The most reliable part of all citroens has always been the suspension system, it already is troublefree.
    The suspension has been the most reliable part of the CX in my ten years of ownership.

    They will never be able to be competitive in 2014 and beyond unless they sell fridges with attitude and market them properly - China is traffic jams and smooth roads taken usually at a slow pace.

    We must cherish our "made to an era not to a price" hydraulic joys, which aren't relevant to that huge market.

    The electronics must be totally reliable, that is for sure, and the AC.

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    And most certainly not a single leak... not 1...

    Material quality has to improve drastically.... as does build quality. Engines must be very smooth and silent. Preferably electtic thrown into the mix.

    I started to open up things today on my cx...
    Starting with the wheels working my way up. So today the Old Man got new tyres. I took pictures while the wheels were off.

    Next is steering... excessive play must be fjxed

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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayofthejackal View Post
    Interesting ( or is it sad ) article in todays New York Times (The New York Times - Breaking News, World News & Multimedia) . On the home page bottom left in the Automobiles section . Essentially splitting the name DS off as a separate PSA brand and the China centric focus of PSA.
    Really? That is breaking news?
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    Oh dear. You guys are very protective aren't you?

    I didn't suggest traditional Citroens have unreliable suspension. My point was that any major point of difference must be reliable or it can destroy confidence. With modern stuff comes complexity, electronics etc. There's no way they'd leave it alone as it used to be - it would have electronics making it fancy enough to stuff up. Then details of the failure is posted on the internet...

    I've been on this forum for some time; don't you think I'd notice if you were all mentioning that your cars had issues?
    Last edited by Stuey; 19th October 2014 at 10:18 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    Oh dear. You guys are very protective aren't you?

    I didn't suggest traditional Citroens have unreliable suspension. My point was that any major point of difference must be reliable or it can destroy confidence. With modern stuff comes complexity, electronics etc. There's no way they'd leave it alone as it used to be - it would have electronics making it fancy.


    I have been on this forum for some time; don't you think I'd notice if you were all mentioning that your cars had issues?
    Ah, didn't mean it quite that way, but it would have seemed so Stuey. What I really meant is that has been other aspects of CX complexity and age that give pain. I think your point is completely right. I imagine the Chinese Citroens (and there are quite a few on the road there, including taxis) hit the Chinese spot.
    JohnW

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    Gerry did the heads up on this awhile back, grande merci beaucoup to both Gerry and Stuey for this, a Chinese built DS will appeal to a Chinese niche market, very little in that thinking merges with the 'other' Citroen market who appreciate, appreciated the lateral design concepts that made the marque. I went to a car show years ago and was unimpressed with how tinny Citroens had become, the Peugeots were superior in many respects. Build quality appearing the biggest difference, weird huh?

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    Citroens UFO spawns a brand-shaolin-citroen-2.jpgCitroens UFO spawns a brand-p8220218.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    Gerry did the heads up on this awhile back, grande merci beaucoup to both Gerry and Stuey for this, a Chinese built DS will appeal to a Chinese niche market, very little in that thinking merges with the 'other' Citroen market who appreciate, appreciated the lateral design concepts that made the marque. I went to a car show years ago and was unimpressed with how tinny Citroens had become, the Peugeots were superior in many respects. Build quality appearing the biggest difference, weird huh?
    Here's a Chinese Citroen. And their normal working environment....
    Last edited by JohnW; 20th October 2014 at 09:08 AM.
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    PSA has a central management, one third controlled by the Peugeot family interests, 1/3 by the French government and 1/3 by Dongfeng (in turn controlled by the Chinese government). It has delegated operations for PSA such as Communications, Marketing, Manufacturing, Purchasing, Design, R and D, Finance and Administration. Then it has below that, three brand marketing operations - Peugeot, CitroŽn and DS. None of these three brands exist any longer as stand alone enterprises, they are just brands like Coke and Fanta. Their cars are styling exercises on the same platformsrunning gear and engine families.
    The DS brand has nothing to do with the DS of 1957, except that the name was useful for marketing purposes. The brand is aimed to be a premium one which will give PSA higher margins per car. Its competitors are the likes of BMW, Merc, Audi, Lexus and Infiniti.
    Tavares is complaining that they are shifting volume in Europe with dealer discounts that are killing the margins and the DS range is a way out of this problerm.

    These car are not bought for the values that the DS had, they are styled and specified to meet perceptions of prestige in designer markets and to provide comfortable transport in slow processions, both in Europe and in China.
    Last edited by gerry freed; 20th October 2014 at 02:40 AM.
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    Yes, I know. My comment wasn't even wishful thinking. As I wrote, 'imagine...'. It was just me dreaming.


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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    These car are not bought for the values that the DS had, they are styled and specified to meet perceptions of prestige in designer markets and to provide comfortable transport in slow processions, both in Europe and in China.
    Got it in one I reckon. The capitalist model is based on competing for what customers want/need/think they need. If I lived in China, the "comfortable transport in slow processions" is what I'd want, with total reliability.

    PSA does have a fascinating central management!

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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Their PR is at the moment wrestling with the story that their sales will be down 30% in South America this year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here's a Chinese Citroen. And their normal working environment....
    looks ok
    why don't they sell them here?

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    C4s with a boot and extra bling are only made in China. Would that aspect wash here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by person s View Post
    looks ok
    why don't they sell them here?
    ADRs perhaps. It was about C5 size, but bulkier so the market is already addressed here maybe.
    JohnW

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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    The figures put out by PSA to show that the Tavares strategy is improving things have some anomalies. One is that the DS brand is gaining rapid momentum overall, but the growth is coming from China. In Europe its sales are down on last year due to the marque riding on the DS3. That car was conceived to sell on personal statement intangibles and not transport or driving pleasure, which are expected of all cars today. The difficult apparently is that if you pitch the car at people who want to be different and it takes off, then you arrive at a point when 'everyone' in the segment has one and a buyer is now one of the crowd. So that type of buyer is looking round for the next trend. The DS3 is a hard act to follow because it has responded to the efforts to improve build quality and customer service, as reflected in the satisfaction surveys.
    Overall the margin per car sold has improved, which is perhaps the most critical parameter to watch and much of that margin improvement has come from the DS range. In France the challenge is to reduce the discounting needed to buy the sales in the run of the mill volume segments.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    The figures put out by PSA to show that the Tavares strategy is improving things have some anomalies. One is that the DS brand is gaining rapid momentum overall, but the growth is coming from China. In Europe its sales are down on last year due to the marque riding on the DS3. That car was conceived to sell on personal statement intangibles and not transport or driving pleasure, which are expected of all cars today. The difficult apparently is that if you pitch the car at people who want to be different and it takes off, then you arrive at a point when 'everyone' in the segment has one and a buyer is now one of the crowd. So that type of buyer is looking round for the next trend. The DS3 is a hard act to follow because it has responded to the efforts to improve build quality and customer service, as reflected in the satisfaction surveys.
    Overall the margin per car sold has improved, which is perhaps the most critical parameter to watch and much of that margin improvement has come from the DS range. In France the challenge is to reduce the discounting needed to buy the sales in the run of the mill volume segments.
    Citroens were quite noticeable in China recently. Might be only 1% but it's a big market and having them as taxis in some places helps visibility! Adding to your comments, their fundamental problem remains that France isn't a big enough market to be a key one for survival, not least given the diversity of the competition there. They've no chance of a huge share of their local (globally small) market, so it has to work globally for the necessary economies of scale. Back to the reliability in traffic jams and, as you said, "personal statement" territory. Boring but realistic!

    I've really enjoyed driving the CX and Xantia this last few weeks, and really the wafting on the torque converter, even in our modest traffic, makes the C-matic my drive of choice for commuting. We won't discuss fuel consumption but at least there's no depreciation... Of course, the CX is very much "personal statement" territory too.
    JohnW

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