c5 x7 manual conversion
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    Default c5 x7 manual conversion

    Hi People, Guessing by my username i do like bmws.....and have 5 (old ones ...e28 and e34) and a Series 1 Land Rover Discovery Tdi and love them for different reasons but for a day to day driver for work (i do laptop repairs) i need a comfy wagon as i have scoliosis
    I test drove the C5 Exclusive Touring with its massage seat and it is definately love
    Now where i am stuck is that i HATE automatics......dont care how bad or good they are ....i simply hate them.
    Their expensive when they go bang, you have less control over the car, worse fuel economy, and most importantly they go bang much more often then manuals .........did i mention the expence? haha
    Anyway what im curious about is besides the obvious such as gearbox, clutch, flywheel, pedal box and shifter..........what else would i need to change to convert the c5 to a manual box? Do i need a ECU change? or is it impossible (doubt it)?
    I have done many auto to manual conversions with relative ease and success.......but i know little about how citroen and peugeot do things...........since tinkering with my fathers 504 God that was a fantastic car.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I imagine the poogoe 407 gearbox shoudl fit...it would likely be easier to import a donor from the UK though (maybe a front cut )
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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    You'd need a virginised ECU, reflashed for a manual box. I can see the conversion costing about two or three A-W valve bodies in a comparative sense.

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    yeh not sure about the ECU............. though priced up the rest of the gear overseas and all up approx 3-3.5k including freight, new oil, new clutch, and all the connections..........ecu im not sure about. from what ive read its 3-3.5k to fix one of these autos.......and either way i hate autos........so if i cant convert it i wont buy it.

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    The auto valve body is just under a thou, maybe a thou with the dollar tanking.

    For the ECU, I'd ask one the of the English experts if it can be re-programmed as a manual version with DPF delete, retaining your VIN and immobiliser code. Suggest you ask Mark Lightfoot - he'd know nothing about the conversion but should have an honest idea about the re-programming of your ECU.

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    hrm is Mark Lightfoot on this forum? sorry but im new here.....how do i find him?
    as for the volve body price, wow thats very reasonable....for bmws it goes into multi thousands and i generally run away when i see autos.

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmw535guy View Post
    hrm is Mark Lightfoot on this forum? sorry but im new here.....how do i find him?
    as for the volve body price, wow thats very reasonable....for bmws it goes into multi thousands and i generally run away when i see autos.
    That's BMW..... Our Peugeot 306 has exactly the same sunroof as a BMW but it cost half as much ordered with the new Peugeot as with a BMW, or so I was told.

    Regarding the auto, I think I'd live with it, but it's your choice of course. If you can find someone who has actually done the exact same conversion and can prove the electronic side can work, maybe..... But that's just me.

    Good luck with the solution. Lovely comfortable car to get into.
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    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Why not just buy a manual version? I don't think all the work involved is worth the time and effort.

    I guess I'm just the opposite, my first 25 cars were manuals, and once I bought an auto I seriously wondered why I'd never switched to an auto years before. Even semi auto...such as the C-matic or the D series Hydraulic are more manual than I'd ever want to go back to.

    The positive side of owning an auto is that you NEVER have to replace a clutch plate, or thrust bearing ever again...!!!
    Last edited by George 1/8th; 17th October 2014 at 08:51 PM.

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    You would understand why no manual versions are imported if you asked any dealer about the proportion of buyers wanting a manual and also how difficult the older manual C5s were to shift. I would firstly ask a dealer if Citroen are prepared to have a car built as a manual for you. It would be relatively expensive even if they are prepared to do so. You can only ask, but I wouldn't be surprised if they decline because they do not want to support a one-off in our market and would rather sell you one they already have on offer.

    As far as I am aware, you can reconfigure the BSI (body computer) to make the car think it's a manual and ensure the engine software is the correct version for a manual. Any dealer should be able to help with this. I know it can be done with an older version of the C4 and the technology would be at least similar. Where you are most likely to run into trouble is the wiring harness, which will almost certainly vary between auto and manual versions. On the earlier C5, my understanding is that the network lines ran via the gearbox ECU, therefore making it difficult to convert to manual.

    Perhaps, learn to love the auto?

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    The car you wish for is sold in England, where the HDI engine may have a dual mass flywheel and a 6 speed manual box.

    BTW the 6 speed auto box sold in Australia is a Japanese transmission, and shows up in a large range of vehicles - AWTF-80 SC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Buy a new one and you have a 6 year warranty at present. Check the terms, but if a gearbox fails within the 6 years it's not going to cost you the thousands you are worried about. Would you still own it in 6 years anyway?

    The 6 speed auto is, as seasink observes, used in a number of other cars, so it will be fairly well known in the aftermarket world. In old age, they can develop a 2-3 upchange slip, which is usually to do with the valve block, specifically sticky solenoids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    The car you wish for is sold in England, where the HDI engine may have a dual mass flywheel and a 6 speed manual box.

    BTW the 6 speed auto box sold in Australia is a Japanese transmission, and shows up in a large range of vehicles - AWTF-80 SC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    From what I've heard, I'm not sure a manual clutch with a dual mass flywheel is more reliable than an auto.......
    JohnW

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    Hello 535.
    Welome. I sympathise with your problem I have a displaced base of my spine so I like smooooth cars and doing long drives. I find the C5 a great car for crook backs. Re the gearbox, like you I wanted a manual but having the current 6 speed gearbox with sequential manual change, I am now converted. I believe that some autos of today are more economical than manuals.
    Good luck. Allan

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    I went to a Citroen Dealer and asked if i can have it specified to my liking.......to which he said comfort or exclusive.???? I asked can i have the comfort with the nice seats and a 5 speed? he said NO..........i asked can i have the exclusive without the dodgy joke of a satnav they put in............he said NO. I asked can i have a manual transmission? he said NO........basically two versions of the touring on offer in australia the spec Citroen importers specified and if you dont like it dont buy it!!! no jokes....
    I know their offered in the UK in manual and with exactly the spec i want ie.e. NO DODGY sat nav and manual in the exclusive!!
    I intend on keeping the car 10+ years thus i am looking long term, and i intend on learning about it and doing my own service work.

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    There were 18 X7 waggons on Carsales this morning. I noticed that some were dealer new cars unsold from a year or two ago. My experience is that country dealers with this sort of stock are well worth talking to. Get on the phone. The waggon is a big interior car.

    Routiine annual servicing of the diesel isn't difficult or expensive, basically oil and filters, though for a long term DIY car it would be worth obtaining diagnostic software (look it up in the forum). The timing belt replacement when it comes is trickier but possible. Eventually you will run into servicing of the particle filter system. This will be early if you do not use the correct oil. A beauty of French cars is the presence of non-dealer parts suppliers with first class service (again see the forum) that won't cripple your wallet.
    Last edited by seasink; 18th October 2014 at 09:18 AM.

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    yeh i noticed a lot on car sales, one for 15,500 with 110,000km has VERY questionable service history. i think ill wait until the prices drop as not one of the cars is what i want and i dont feel like paying top dollar for a car that isnt the spec i want when in reality i dont want sat nav or an auto gearbox so unless they drop it to manual prices withtout satnav i will NOT consider it. Considering all these 2013 and 2014 cars arent moving i would think the dealers would be happy to ask what the customer wants and offer it but NOOOO its take this or get stuffed. I think 35k for a new c5 exclusive wagon is a fair price....i know it costs them more with sat nav, glass roof and auto but thats their problem....i want a manual with no sat nav and no glass roof......their the ones trying to shove this rubbish in my face and im not paying for it.

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    There has been a change of distributor of Citroen to Sime Darby (same as Peugeot), who have substantially reduced the range available to top of the line models.

    A couple of years ago there were cars with lower spec than "Exclusive", such as "Seduction". Some had steel spring suspension, which sounds heretical, but they ride very well.

    There are 6 more affordable X7 hydraulic "Comfort" waggons on Carsales now from 2011. Comforts have everything great about C5s, nearly as much leather, fancy electric-everything seats, and not the satnav. Still the 6 speed Aisin auto though, which is a great box.

    2nd hand waggons will usually hold their price better.

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    comfort dont have the same seats as exclusive, and in all honesty i see no point buying a citroen if it doesnt have that fantastic suspension.......i can effectively buy a peugeot to get the exact same car. I simply dont want an auto, the sat nav or the glass roof (although i can live with the glass roof....just see it a bit of wastage of money). I want the magic suspension, i want the amazing seats and i want a 2 or 2.2 diesel motor....im trying to understand why i cant have what i want

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    But if you try, sometimes, you just might find you get what you need.

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    Comforts have hydraulic suspension. The seat differences from Exclusive are the leather, no "masseur", no heater. From memory the other omissions are satnav, some internal lights, sunblinds, and a different radio. Externally, comforts have halogen headlights.

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    maybe im wrong about comforts not having hydraulic suspension but either way the exclusive only have those wonderful seats

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    IIRC, the total sales of all Citroen models in Australia in one year is around about the quantity that the Citroen factories produce in one day. We are a tiny market therefore we get what the importers are willing to take a punt on and receive.

    In 2012 I met and spoke to a person who works for Citroen in product control and he was telling me about the variations they have to do for every market to meet market demands and legal requirements. It's mind boggling.

    That Aussie buyers do not want manual gearboxes aligns with the fact that we are one of the most urbanised countries and many of our cars spend hours sitting in traffic. European drivers for whatever reason do not like automatics, which really puzzles me. Having driven manual and EGS 'boxed Citroens in Europe I of the firm opionion that these days there is little point in changing gears yourself.

    BTW, Exclusive model C5s also get large wheels (min 18"), laminated side glass, a better sound system and previously mentioned window blinds. The laminated side glass does make a difference to cabin noise.

    Via the aussiefrogs App
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    i understand what you are getting at but you have missed what i was getting at and that is if i am willing as a customer to give them my hard earned money AND i am willing to wait then why not let me order what i want ? i dont mind waiting 6 mths if i can order the car i want specifically and NOT a car the importers believe is what i want. As for the Auto vs Manual argument............im a car guy and do a LOT of driving and i HATE automatics for a variety of reasons i have listed before and the only argument im hearing about autos is their so easy in traffic..................i can tell you that it DOES NOT bother me one bit driving manual in traffic I also have an old land rover manual 4wd i love and a manual bike i love. I may be the minority but i dont really care....... I dont give in to peer pressure and if an importer says they cant do it then ill simply do it myself Automatics for the lazy and the handicapped........!

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    Is your name Rumpel ... something? How's that floor holding up?

    Seriously, if the importer did agree to order a special build just to suit you (and it's doubtful), I can only imagine they'd expect a significant portion of payment up front to do so and that it will cost you more like $50K (or more) rather than the $35K you suggest you want to pay. With a special order, you would not be preying on some regional dealer with an old stock car burning a hole in their floorplan arrangements. Even when the (previous) importer did offer a C5 as a manual, it accounted for a couple of percent of sales and was far too hard to move off the lot to justify.

    As for the auto for lazy and handicapped quip. Well, it's a matter of personal choice and where you mostly drive. I have both and it could be argued that a manual conversion transformed one car I have, but also turned it from a pleasure to dawdle along in to something of a pig in heavy traffic. Personally, for most of my driving, the last thing I want to do in many traffic conditions I find myself in is change gears myself, especially if I'm tired. If being a 'car guy' necessitates shifting my own gears, then I guess I'm an appliance buyer. Smeg anyone?

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    so what your saying is that the importer does not do this because the importer does not do this essentially. Im not saying they need to buy cars they dont believe will sell but when an customer says "hey i love the car but the navigation sux and the automatic is the deal breaker for me" then a company that wishes to make money says the following :
    We get these at discounted price so its the best value but if you wish to have it custom set up with the options you want then you need to leave 10k on the table to proceed with the order and there is a surcharge of 2k to set this up and there is a 6 month wait....GUESS what???? i would sign on the dotted line!!
    Citroen in australia do not offer this service THUS their sales suck. You walk into any Japanese car dealer and they will do it for you!! Its all a question of dollars and thats it.

    As for Autos being for lazy and handicapped drivers.......i stand by my words. ok so it goes like this manual gearboxes are more reliable (if your not a bad driver and dont fry the clutch or syncros......bad drivers do those things), their better for fuel efficiency, their easier to fix, they make the car perform better and they liven even boring cars up Autos have going for them that for those too lazy to shift or think about what gear to be in when their in traffic is all done by the gearbox...........at the expence of EVERYTHING else..........makes those people lazy or the person is handicapped and has special needs and cannot drive manual. So lazy or handicapped!! Please dont pretend its anything else I get very tired but being a veteran manual gearbox driver i dont even have to think in traffic too much............i simply watch traffic and stay in best gear for conditions
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