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    Fellow Frogger! brycedunn's Avatar
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    Default sphere removal tips?

    Hello all,
    I am currently trying to remove the spheres from my DS so I can take them to the CCCNSW tech day tomorrow. My bright idea was that it would easier to remove them in my own garage where I have access to everything I need and just bring them with me in a box to the tech day.

    The only problem is that something that would appear to be so simple is being anything but. After two hours I only have one off! (passengers front).

    Are there any tips that can be offered?

    Bryce

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brycedunn View Post
    Hello all,
    I am currently trying to remove the spheres from my DS so I can take them to the CCCNSW tech day tomorrow. My bright idea was that it would easier to remove them in my own garage where I have access to everything I need and just bring them with me in a box to the tech day.

    The only problem is that something that would appear to be so simple is being anything but. After two hours I only have one off! (passengers front).

    Are there any tips that can be offered?

    Bryce
    Bryce,
    This is my procedure, car on jack stands, crack the spheres to be removed with your strap tool, just enough to break the seal!
    De-pressurise the system, set car to low and open the blead on the pressure regulator, just a quarter turn. Have an absorbent clean rag around the base of the sphere to catch the flow of LHM.
    Spheres should now just spin off.

    Don't try to remove the rears without following this technique, you need to break the seal whilst pressurised or you can damage the high pressure line.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Fellow Frogger! brycedunn's Avatar
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    Cheers chris.
    The trick with the rears worked a treat.
    I had to go and buy a beefier strap wrench as I broke the first one. Second one required a meter long breaker bar to crack the spheres, but they did in the end.
    Bryce
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    Fellow Frogger! brycedunn's Avatar
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    These spheres did not want to come out, that is for sure!
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    mnm
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    Hi Bryce

    when I screw my spheres back on, I have only ever tightened them up snug by hand.. hardly anything. I make sure the seal lines up properly. They never leak and I can remove them with a simple twist later, by hand, when the system is depressurised.

    Matthew

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    Fellow Frogger! brycedunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnm View Post
    Hi Bryce

    when I screw my spheres back on, I have only ever tightened them up snug by hand.. hardly anything. I make sure the seal lines up properly. They never leak and I can remove them with a simple twist later, by hand, when the system is depressurised.

    Matthew
    Good tip. This is the first time I've had them off the car after having owned the car about two years, so I wonder if the previous owner or his mechanic used a strap wrench to tighten them?

    Bryce
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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Couple of things, Bryce: remember which are front and which are rear. The shock absorbers are different, and are gassed to different pressures. Also, I know its a pain to get at, but you may want to take the main accumulator sphere as well and have it checked, unless of course you've already had that done recently.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Couple of things, Bryce: remember which are front and which are rear. The shock absorbers are different, and are gassed to different pressures. Also, I know its a pain to get at, but you may want to take the main accumulator sphere as well and have it checked, unless of course you've already had that done recently.
    Thanks Hotrodelectric,
    can't see it in the photos but I have marked the slots in the box so each one can go back where it came from.

    i did want to remove the accumulator as I have a short cycle time and given my accumulator is a disposable type, I have bought a new one. I found some instructions on how to remove the sphere without the whole assembly, but I couldn't get that to work, so I guess I will need to remove the whole assembly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brycedunn View Post
    Thanks Hotrodelectric,
    can't see it in the photos but I have marked the slots in the box so each one can go back where it came from.

    i did want to remove the accumulator as I have a short cycle time and given my accumulator is a disposable type, I have bought a new one. I found some instructions on how to remove the sphere without the whole assembly, but I couldn't get that to work, so I guess I will need to remove the whole assembly.
    The disposable accumulator spheres are a little deeper and can present some difficulty, you may need to jack the motor up, use a plank under the sump to spread the load.

    Make sure the car is very secure on stands and even pack a couple of the removed wheels under the body before you climb under!!!!
    If you are at all unsure, removing the whole assembly from above is the safer option. Also gives you a chance to clean and paint the regulator

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Yah, that space really wasn't designed for the pineapple spheres. As you noted, they fit, but they don't fit. If you finally do remove the regulator, remember line seals. Sometimes you can reuse them, but usually not. They're cheap, so just buy some. I forget what size they are- 6mm? Someone will know... Chris?
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brycedunn View Post
    Good tip. This is the first time I've had them off the car after having owned the car about two years, so I wonder if the previous owner or his mechanic used a strap wrench to tighten them?

    Bryce
    Bryce,

    Doubt it - Sphere's are steel, cylinders are Al. Over time and especially at the rear (exposed to the elements) AlOx (Al Oxide) forms between the cylinder threads and those of the sphere. That is the major cause of the binding. The second cause is mechanical binding just from the force those threads are subjected to during the normal use of the car.

    With the front the other thing that happens is not all pressure can be released, even with the car on stands. If the front spheres are not 'rockable' - IOW you cannot wiggle them a bit by hand, you have residual pressure in the system. Easiest way to solve is to lift the passenger side wheel ( in you case) with a jack just to the point of where that side of the car starts to come off the stand and then lower.

    When you reinstall the units put a smear of LHM compatible grease on the sphere threads - will go a long way in helping to remove later.

    As to identification - DS fronts rebuildable spheres should have a "59" stamped on the top of the filler cap - the rears should have "26". Refers to bars of pressure inside ( 1 bar = 14.5 psi).

    Steve

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    Fellow Frogger! brycedunn's Avatar
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    Spheres were tested today and pressures were good. Before attempting to remove the whole assembly for the accumulator, I have roped in an 'assistant' for Tuesday to take one last crack at it.
    Bryce
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    mnm
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    The disposable accumulator spheres are a little deeper and can present some difficulty, you may need to jack the motor up, use a plank under the sump to spread the load.

    Make sure the car is very secure on stands and even pack a couple of the removed wheels under the body before you climb under!!!!
    If you are at all unsure, removing the whole assembly from above is the safer option. Also gives you a chance to clean and paint the regulator

    Cheers
    Chris

    I have a 2-piece accumulator sphere, engine on "new" mounts...I tried removing it from underneath a while back but there was no way it was coming out the bottom. So is it only removable from the top?

    Matthew

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnm View Post
    I have a 2-piece accumulator sphere, engine on "new" mounts...I tried removing it from underneath a while back but there was no way it was coming out the bottom. So is it only removable from the top?

    Matthew
    that should come out ... Is it an accumulator or a suspension sphere with the valve unscrewed
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    mnm
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    It's an accumulator sphere..

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnm View Post
    I have a 2-piece accumulator sphere, engine on "new" mounts...I tried removing it from underneath a while back but there was no way it was coming out the bottom. So is it only removable from the top?

    Matthew
    Definitely removable from below, what was the hindrance? You may still have to jack the motor a little to clear the crossmember, but with a 2 piece sphere there should be clearance?

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnm View Post
    It's an accumulator sphere..
    It might pay to check the engine height. With the squat two piece accumulator it should clear.... Well it has for me the few times I've removed them either way
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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    mnm
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Definitely removable from below, what was the hindrance? You may still have to jack the motor a little to clear the crossmember, but with a 2 piece sphere there should be clearance?

    Cheers
    Chris
    It seemed it wouldn't fit through any opening forward or rear of the crossmember. Is it supposed to exit to the rear?

    Matthew

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    If it's in Economy, most likely.

    I'm presuming this faffing about for accumulator removal, relates also to IDs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mnm View Post
    It seemed it wouldn't fit through any opening forward or rear of the crossmember. Is it supposed to exit to the rear?

    Matthew
    Unscrew and remove to the rear Matthew, I have to use the jack under the sump to gain clearance as I currently have a welded sphere which is probably 20mm deeper than your 2 piece jobby (about the depth of the thread). I would think if your engine is sitting at the correct height you should be able to simply unscrew and remove?

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    If it's in Economy, most likely.

    I'm presuming this faffing about for accumulator removal, relates also to IDs.
    Just about everything is easier on the older IDs, at the very least you can better see what you are doing . . .

    It should be pointed out here that with the more up-specced later cars (Pallas) the accumulator/regulator is positioned for ease of access up in front of the radiator. Some enthusiasts have made this modification on their lowly models.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Just about everything is easier on the older IDs, at the very least you can better see what you are doing . . .

    It should be pointed out here that with the more up-specced later cars (Pallas) the accumulator/regulator is positioned for ease of access up in front of the radiator. Some enthusiasts have made this modification on their lowly models.

    Cheers
    Chris
    That really only happens on the LHD cars ................ They have the steering column in the way too. From underneath there shouldn't be too much of a difference, no matter how crowded the engine compartment is from above (well that's my theory either way ... and I"m sticking to it!).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    It should be pointed out here that with the more up-specced later cars (Pallas) the accumulator/regulator is positioned for ease of access up in front of the radiator. Some enthusiasts have made this modification on their lowly models.

    Cheers
    Chris
    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    That really only happens on the LHD cars ................ They have the steering column in the way too. From underneath there shouldn't be too much of a difference, no matter how crowded the engine compartment is from above (well that's my theory either way ... and I"m sticking to it!).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    No, RHD Shane, my 23iE (manual converted from auto) had the accumulator/regulator out the front. Might have been something to do with it having been an auto as they have an oil cooler where the regulator normally sits

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    No, RHD Shane, my 23iE (manual converted from auto) had the accumulator/regulator out the front. Might have been something to do with it having been an auto as they have an oil cooler where the regulator normally sits

    Cheers
    Chris
    How was that done, Chris? Attached to the transmission or the frame? I'm imagining the lines were all-steel into the regulator.

    I know that for quite a while it was popular here to relocate the regulator off-block to somewhere 'accessible'. Long ago, one of the better Citroen gurus here (Scott Curtiss) created a kit that included flexible high pressure lines. Not a horrible idea, except that sometimes introduced more problems than it solved. I mean, have you ever seen a regulator attached to the front crossmember with zip-ties? That wasn't Curtiss' doing, that was just some lazy so-and-so.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    How was that done, Chris? Attached to the transmission or the frame? I'm imagining the lines were all-steel into the regulator.

    I know that for quite a while it was popular here to relocate the regulator off-block to somewhere 'accessible'. Long ago, one of the better Citroen gurus here (Scott Curtiss) created a kit that included flexible high pressure lines. Not a horrible idea, except that sometimes introduced more problems than it solved. I mean, have you ever seen a regulator attached to the front crossmember with zip-ties? That wasn't Curtiss' doing, that was just some lazy so-and-so.
    It's been too long Bill, I struggle to remember the important things like eating these days

    Harrison is our man, he owns a late auto and should be able to confirm (I think we have narrowed down the change to 23 Automatics) no bodge job though, properly mounted and made changing an accumulator sphere a 5 minute job.

    Where are you Phil??

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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