Citroen C4 AL4 transmission problem
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Thread: Citroen C4 AL4 transmission problem

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    Tadpole
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    Default Citroen C4 AL4 transmission problem

    Hi everyone, I have recently bought a 2007 Auto C4 2.0 petrol with only 70,000km on the clock.
    however, after 1 month of ownership, the trouble already started.
    I can only drive in auto mode, the manual mode is no longer work, and the display on the console no longer show the gear position, only '--'!
    when I use ELM327 with torque App to scan the car, it show error code 'U0404' and 'P0607', transmission range error.
    Does anyone has similar problem, pls help...

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    IWS
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    Martin,

    I'm sorry to tell you - but the AL4 is renowned for problems. Have a look here:

    aussiefrogs - The Australian French Car Forum Since 1999 - aussiefrogs.com - Google Search Results

    Forum member Frenchtranstech might have some advice, as I expect will others.

    Ian.

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    This box gives a long life to some and a short life to too many others. The usual problem is lack of fluid changes, or the wrong fluid. If you wait someone with your fault will show up for help. Meanwhile, here are some pages from a Citroen technical document-
    Citroen C4 AL4 transmission problem-warnings.jpgCitroen C4 AL4 transmission problem-warnings2.jpg

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    Check the Peugeot Forum............................there's an AL4 gearbox problem thread with 110 replies. Might be something of interest there.

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    ...after 1 month of ownership, the trouble already started
    Don't you hate waiting!

    It could have mis-adjustment of either the multicontact switch or the shuttle valve detent mechanism inside the gearbox front. Both are quite easy to sort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IWS View Post
    Martin,

    I'm sorry to tell you - but the AL4 is renowned for problems. Have a look here:

    aussiefrogs - The Australian French Car Forum Since 1999 - aussiefrogs.com - Google Search Results

    Forum member Frenchtranstech might have some advice, as I expect will others.

    Ian.
    I think Citroen is renowned for problems, not just the AL4!!

    But thay are like beautiful woman, you know they are troublesome but just can't resist..

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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    Don't you hate waiting!

    It could have mis-adjustment of either the multicontact switch or the shuttle valve detent mechanism inside the gearbox front. Both are quite easy to sort.
    what is 'shuttle valve detent mechanism'? is it under the gear selector, next to the diver seat? any pic would be appreciate.

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    It's under the pressed metal cover on the face of the transmission, this piece is removed and refitted if the valve body is taken out (for example, when replacing faulty solenoids). There is a special tool prescribed to adjust it accurately, else one uses experience and a helper to get it set properly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    It's under the pressed metal cover on the face of the transmission, this piece is removed and refitted if the valve body is taken out (for example, when replacing faulty solenoids). There is a special tool prescribed to adjust it accurately, else one uses experience and a helper to get it set properly.
    Thanks for the quick reply! but i don't have the tool or the experience.

    anyone knows a good mechanic on sydney northern beaches near brookvale?

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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Jason Hantos in Hornsby Heights is your man. 0407 281 269
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    In the family

    Xantia SX

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    Quote Originally Posted by martinln View Post
    Thanks for the quick reply! but i don't have the tool or the experience.

    anyone knows a good mechanic on sydney northern beaches near brookvale?
    Peter Haremza
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    Tel. 9453 1644
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    Default AL4 problems !

    Hi Martinin
    Sorry to hear about your problems. However do not panic just yet. The car is probably still drivable while you get something sorted.

    Firstly the codes. The codes are generic numbers but probably mean something specific for this PSA
    transmission. If you Google them you will probably get some generic answers that may apply to other brands of USA transmissions that sound bad but really are not so bad for yours As has been said it is most likely that the two pressure control valves need changing to the later type as this is a common fault. A scan with a Citroen/peugeot scan tool will tell you the correct faults. The other generic tools do not give correct answers to the scans in these cars.

    A test of the valves is this. If you start up and it drives OK for a while then goes thump, perhaps, and goes into fault mode. The service light comes on and the transmission stays in third and will not go into manual mode. Stop when you can and turn the ignition off for moment. Then restart. It should start normally and drive normally perhaps for a while, perhaps till you get home !! This is probably the valves. You can continue to do a restart and keep going till you sort it for quite a while IMHO and not cause any damage if it only does it occasionally.

    The valves are available outside the Dealers and any good auto transmission place may be able to change them. Just make sure they use a correct fluid in it. A synthetic fluid of universal coverage that actually list these transmissions as suitable would be my choice. The original PSA recommendation has not proved to be superior in helping the life of them. It has however helped the financial return to the dealers that sell it at inflated prices.

    In the future do a change of fluid ever 20000-30 ks or so to preserve the life of the rest of the transmission. The software is recommended to be upgraded to the latest version after fitting the latest valves. A dealer is needed for this. However it may already have this.
    Cheers jaahn

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi Martinin
    Sorry to hear about your problems. However do not panic just yet. The car is probably still drivable while you get something sorted.

    Firstly the codes. The codes are generic numbers but probably mean something specific for this PSA
    transmission. If you Google them you will probably get some generic answers that may apply to other brands of USA transmissions that sound bad but really are not so bad for yours As has been said it is most likely that the two pressure control valves need changing to the later type as this is a common fault. A scan with a Citroen/peugeot scan tool will tell you the correct faults. The other generic tools do not give correct answers to the scans in these cars.

    A test of the valves is this. If you start up and it drives OK for a while then goes thump, perhaps, and goes into fault mode. The service light comes on and the transmission stays in third and will not go into manual mode. Stop when you can and turn the ignition off for moment. Then restart. It should start normally and drive normally perhaps for a while, perhaps till you get home !! This is probably the valves. You can continue to do a restart and keep going till you sort it for quite a while IMHO and not cause any damage if it only does it occasionally.

    The valves are available outside the Dealers and any good auto transmission place may be able to change them. Just make sure they use a correct fluid in it. A synthetic fluid of universal coverage that actually list these transmissions as suitable would be my choice. The original PSA recommendation has not proved to be superior in helping the life of them. It has however helped the financial return to the dealers that sell it at inflated prices.

    In the future do a change of fluid ever 20000-30 ks or so to preserve the life of the rest of the transmission. The software is recommended to be upgraded to the latest version after fitting the latest valves. A dealer is needed for this. However it may already have this.
    Cheers jaahn

    where can get these non-dealer fluid? Repco? any part #

    yes, the car is still drive ok, but i don't know what gear it is in because it is not on the display any more.

    I do feel gear shift though.. strange?

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    The Citroen spec for the AL4 box is CITROňN 97.36.22. The box also appears in Renaults with a different case. The fluid is reputedly Mobil ATF LT 71141, which is becoming hard to find. Owners of several Euro makes are looking for it. See Imperial Oil & Chemical Automotive. It isn't cheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by martinln View Post
    where can get these non-dealer fluid? Repco? any part #

    yes, the car is still drive ok, but i don't know what gear it is in because it is not on the display any more.

    I do feel gear shift though.. strange?
    Hi martinln
    It is hard to do remote diagnoses !! The limp mode in third actually uses the lockup clutch and you can hear that. It would be wise to get a Lexia etc on to it. Perhaps someone near you might help out

    Some other information on valves and fluids. Note that these are just my recommendation instead of being robbed by the stealers or that other referenced supplier (from seasink). I actually brought a 20ltr drum of the Mobil ATF LT 71141 several years ago but have used most of it. It is not available from the local agents any more. I also believe these modern synthetic fluids are superior to the very ordinary Citroen fluid anyway. I used the Penrite fluid in my VW which has another variation of this transmission.

    The valves. Just one advertisment I found on Ebay au. There are cheaper ones probably, direct from the UK or China ? Two for that price and all genuine. Google the part number.
    Citroen C3 C4 C5 C8 ZX Xantia Xsara AL4 Automatic Gearbox Electro Valve 257416 | eBay

    Penrite oil
    Penrite Australia - NetLube

    Nulon oil
    Nulon Australia - NetLube
    Full Synthetic Multi Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid- Nulon Australia

    Mobil oil
    Mobil 1? Synthetic ATF - Australia | Mobil? Asia Pacific

    Or just look further at Supercheep, Repco Auto One or ? for other quality synthetic ATF brands.
    cheers jaahn

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    Hi Guys,

    just finished doing the AL4 valves on my 2003 C5 Citroen and I purchased the valves from here (same part number for both valves) and they also sell the pan gasket for your sump. I also used the Penrite oil in my transmission shown here. Shipping time was around the 8 day mark from the UK but we had another vehicle to use in the mean time. Paid with Paypal so I new i could get a refund if nothing showed up.

    Regards

    Danny
    2003 Citroen C5 80th anniversary.

    www.beancrew.com.au

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    P0607 ECU internal fault : Not characterised
    U0404 Communication with the gearbox ECU : Value received incorrect
    Maybe a wiring or switch issue, possibly the multi-function / position switch?

    Changing the oil requires a procedure to check the fluid level. It's not hard, but you need to follow it and get under the car when it's hot. Without tools, forget doing anything yourself and send it to someone who knows about the AL4 gearbox. It's also known as a DPO in the Renault world, hence a Renault mechanics may be able to help. If it's slipping and going to 3rd (it's way of protecting itself) and you just keep on driving it, don't be too surprised if you need a rebuild.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    P0607 ECU internal fault : Not characterised
    U0404 Communication with the gearbox ECU : Value received incorrect
    Maybe a wiring or switch issue, possibly the multi-function / position switch?

    Changing the oil requires a procedure to check the fluid level. It's not hard, but you need to follow it and get under the car when it's hot. Without tools, forget doing anything yourself and send it to someone who knows about the AL4 gearbox. It's also known as a DPO in the Renault world, hence a Renault mechanics may be able to help. If it's slipping and going to 3rd (it's way of protecting itself) and you just keep on driving it, don't be too surprised if you need a rebuild.

    I think there may be something wrong with the wiring or switch, not the valve. There is NO flashing of 'sport' and 'snow' indicator.

    It is not slipping or locked in 3rd gear, I can feel it is changing gear but it is not kickdown when press hard, it is just not responsive as before. Also, a strange noise, like a clicking sound - may be a relay or something, come under gear lever when I pressed the brake pedal!

    Also, I just found out that if I put the car the in NEUTRAL and start the car, everything is back to normal!
    The gear position is now shown on the display, no more fault message on the center console, everything is back to normal.
    But as soon as I put it into 'Park', all the problems are back..

    I have basic tool, just not the DEALer tools.

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    The clicking is just the solenoid that prevents you moving the car out of park without having your foot on the brake so nothing to be concerned about with that particular sound.
    Citroen C5 II manual '05; C4 Exculsive '07; Citroen CX2200 Pallas '76; CX2400 C-matic Pallas '78

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    What happens sometimes, is if the solenoids have been changed, some people do not correctly adjust the detent inside the gearbox, preferring to "fudge" the work by adjusting the multicontact switch.

    As a quick fix, the switch can be adjusted by loosening its two Torx securing screws and rotating ever so slightly. As a better fix, one is advised to have the shuttle valve and detent setup checked by someone with either the factory tools or good knowledge of the "cheat" (a helper pulling the gearstick back ever so slightly as the spring is locked down). Then, adjustment of the multi contact switch is a slight tweak only (or may not be required).

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    one positive experience about owning a citroen is that I learn a lot about cars!!

    I guess if you own a Toyota, you never open the bonnet, just the fuel cap is all you need to touch.

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    are you a citroen Mechanic??

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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    What happens sometimes, is if the solenoids have been changed, some people do not correctly adjust the detent inside the gearbox, preferring to "fudge" the work by adjusting the multicontact switch.

    As a quick fix, the switch can be adjusted by loosening its two Torx securing screws and rotating ever so slightly. As a better fix, one is advised to have the shuttle valve and detent setup checked by someone with either the factory tools or good knowledge of the "cheat" (a helper pulling the gearstick back ever so slightly as the spring is locked down). Then, adjustment of the multi contact switch is a slight tweak only (or may not be required).

    Are you a citroen mechanic!

    I rang my local guys, he wouldn't touch it..

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    I rang my local guys, he wouldn't touch it..
    It's a German gearbox. I'll bet the local guy will take on a Beemer or a Merc though. They even do Toyotas which are far from simple. These blokes tend to think that current Cits are as different as the DS was in its day. As for never opening the bonnet of Japanese cars, forget it. They have the same problems.

    Because PSA has a disgraceful attitude to sharing info with the diagnostic equipment makers, you will be better off at an experienced Cit, or Pug, or even Renault specialist. Post where you are and somebody will suggest one.

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I'm not a CitroŽn mechanic, although I have been known to impersonate someone who knows what they're doing. ;-)

    Toyotas - especially the V6 models - do not take kindly to being ignored, BTW. Eventually the engine will develop faults relating to lack of oil changes and the degradation of oil quality due to heat and age. Then, like the other "never lift the bonnet" car - the modern Commodore - it gets expensive...

    I agree with Seasink about CitroŽn's attitude to the public - especially in Australia. In the EU it is legally mandated that people must have reasonable (ie; not expensive) access to information about how to fix their cars - it cannot be withheld. So for €5,20 per hour you can look at wiring diagrams, read the official "how to..." instructions and surf repair time estimates. This information is also able to be bought online here by the hour from "service.citroen.com", for a while they blocked it but I and others lobbied for its reintroduction.

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